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CT Cowboy Fan


Joined: 12 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
CT Cowboy Fan wrote:
I wouldn't do another Claiborne trade to land him because we have other glaring needs at Oline that can't go unaddressed yet another season. But if he somehow slid into our laps I think we'd be hard pressed not to take him, I mean c'mon his name is Star!


That's pretty much why I want him. He isn't just strictly an NT and like I mentioned before, has drawn comparisons to Ngata. He's a versatile player capable of playing either NT or DE. And as much as I like Ratliff, he isn't getting any younger.

Lotulelei would give us an elite threat on the DL (think Watt). If he slides into the mid-teens, and we're picking there, he has to be the pick. We could always use a 2nd to address the OL. However, after watching him last night, I think those concerns of him being overrated that I had heard are bogus and have a hard time believing he'd slide out of the top ten.


That's what I meant, we cant trade our 2nd to make sure we get him because of the OL needs we have. We can pick him in the 1st but we need a C/G in the 2nd. The only way I see him falling out of the top 10 is if he has a horrible combine, even then I wouldn't be afraid of taking him. On the other hand, after the beating Star gave him last night I'd steer clear of the USC C Khaled.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CT Cowboy Fan wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
CT Cowboy Fan wrote:
I wouldn't do another Claiborne trade to land him because we have other glaring needs at Oline that can't go unaddressed yet another season. But if he somehow slid into our laps I think we'd be hard pressed not to take him, I mean c'mon his name is Star!


That's pretty much why I want him. He isn't just strictly an NT and like I mentioned before, has drawn comparisons to Ngata. He's a versatile player capable of playing either NT or DE. And as much as I like Ratliff, he isn't getting any younger.

Lotulelei would give us an elite threat on the DL (think Watt). If he slides into the mid-teens, and we're picking there, he has to be the pick. We could always use a 2nd to address the OL. However, after watching him last night, I think those concerns of him being overrated that I had heard are bogus and have a hard time believing he'd slide out of the top ten.


That's what I meant, we cant trade our 2nd to make sure we get him because of the OL needs we have. We can pick him in the 1st but we need a C/G in the 2nd. The only way I see him falling out of the top 10 is if he has a horrible combine, even then I wouldn't be afraid of taking him. On the other hand, after the beating Star gave him last night I'd steer clear of the USC C Khaled.


To be fair, Holmes was dealing with an ankle injury that's been giving him issues all season.
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CT Cowboy Fan


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understandable, but he was getting manhandled!
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buckwild


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CT Cowboy Fan wrote:
Star looks like a man amongst boys out there. I've watch 3 of his games so far and I'm sold. Reminds me a lot of Ngata, not only because of the Samoan decent but they physically look and play alike. He lives in the backfield, always gets a good push, I even saw him drop back into coverage and make an open field tackle on a WR last night. At 6'4" 330 that pretty impressive. As far as playing him at NT or the 5 tech, I say move him around much like the Raven do Ngata. Ryan (if he's here) loves multiplicity, and Star would give him that across the Dline. I wouldn't do another Claiborne trade to land him because we have other glaring needs at Oline that can't go unaddressed yet another season. But if he somehow slid into our laps I think we'd be hard pressed not to take him, I mean c'mon his name is Star!


Unless the Cowboys totally tank this season I don't see them having a shot at Star , because he is already projected as a top 10 pick. Once the evaluation process starts he could be a top 5 pick, and don't want to do another trade up to sacrifice another 2nd round pick or more. Ratliff just signed a new deal last year so I don't see DT as a high priority on Jerry's shopping list.
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Tony7188


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buckwild wrote:
CT Cowboy Fan wrote:
Star looks like a man amongst boys out there. I've watch 3 of his games so far and I'm sold. Reminds me a lot of Ngata, not only because of the Samoan decent but they physically look and play alike. He lives in the backfield, always gets a good push, I even saw him drop back into coverage and make an open field tackle on a WR last night. At 6'4" 330 that pretty impressive. As far as playing him at NT or the 5 tech, I say move him around much like the Raven do Ngata. Ryan (if he's here) loves multiplicity, and Star would give him that across the Dline. I wouldn't do another Claiborne trade to land him because we have other glaring needs at Oline that can't go unaddressed yet another season. But if he somehow slid into our laps I think we'd be hard pressed not to take him, I mean c'mon his name is Star!


Unless the Cowboys totally tank this season I don't see them having a shot at Star , because he is already projected as a top 10 pick. Once the evaluation process starts he could be a top 5 pick, and don't want to do another trade up to sacrifice another 2nd round pick or more. Ratliff just signed a new deal last year so I don't see DT as a high priority on Jerry's shopping list.


Yep, unfortunately because I think Ratliff is slowing down. As for Star, I don't know if he will go Top 10 anymore, because of the NT class. Having Hankins and Star (even Short) might sway teams to address other positions first because it's a deep NT class.

Because I doubt Star will make it to us, for me I think it comes down to Bjoern Werner and Barrett Jones in the 1st round. I think it's a tough decision because I think Werner reminds me of JJ Watt. As much as I love Jones, man I don't think we should pass on Werner if he's there with our pick.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony7188 wrote:
Because I doubt Star will make it to us, for me I think it comes down to Bjoern Werner and Barrett Jones in the 1st round. I think it's a tough decision because I think Werner reminds me of JJ Watt. As much as I love Jones, man I don't think we should pass on Werner if he's there with our pick.


Werner isn't a 5-tech in the 3-4. He'd be an OLB.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Figured I would do a few different visions:

Best Player Approach:
1. Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah
2. Demontre Moore, OLB, Texas A&M
3. Aaron Murray, QB, Georgia

All Defense Draft:
1. Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah
2. Demontre Moore, OLB, Texas A&M
3. Bacarri Rambo, S, Georgia
4. Shariff Floyd, DE, Florida

All Offense Draft:
1. Barrett Jones, C, Alabama
2. Chance Warmack, OG, Alabama
3. Aaron Murray, QB, Georgia
4. Kenjon Barner, RB, Oregon

Need based Draft:
1. Barrett Jones, OL, Alabama
2. Demontre Moore, OLB, Texas A&M
3. Bacarri Rambo, S, Georgia
4. John Sullen, OG, Auburn
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some Mocks from the web:

15 DALLAS COWBOYS: T.J. MCDONALD, S, USC

http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-A.php
-----------------------------------------------------------------
20. Dallas Cowboys: Jackson Jeffcoat, DE, Texas

http://newnfldraft.com/nfl-mock-draft-first-round-picks-17-24/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
21. Dallas: William Gholston, DE, Michigan St

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2013/2013-nfl-mock-draft.cfm?writer=48&page=2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
18. Dallas Cowboys - Corey Lemonier, DE/OLB, Auburn

http://www.draftking.com/mock/2013/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
15. Dallas Cowboys: Johnathan Jenkins, NT, Georgia

http://walterfootball.com/draft2013.php
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17. C Barrett Jones, Alabama

http://www.nfldraftdog.com/Mock-Drafts/2013-nfl-mock-draft.html

So. No one agrees. Laughing
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Don't think McDonald is worth a top 20 pick.

2. I don't think Jeffcoat really fits a 3-4 scheme.

3. Think we could do better than Gholston.

4. I'd really hate to take another OLB in the 1st.

5. I like John Jenkins

6. And would love Barrett

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Figured I would do a few different visions:

Best Player Approach:
1. Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah
2. Demontre Moore, OLB, Texas A&M
3. Aaron Murray, QB, Georgia

All Defense Draft:
1. Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah
2. Demontre Moore, OLB, Texas A&M
3. Bacarri Rambo, S, Georgia
4. Shariff Floyd, DE, Florida

All Offense Draft:
1. Barrett Jones, C, Alabama
2. Chance Warmack, OG, Alabama
3. Aaron Murray, QB, Georgia
4. Kenjon Barner, RB, Oregon

Need based Draft:
1. Barrett Jones, OL, Alabama
2. Demontre Moore, OLB, Texas A&M
3. Bacarri Rambo, S, Georgia
4. John Sullen, OG, Auburn


1. BPA draft would cause a riot.

2. See above

3. I don't see Warmack sliding out of the first round. If we go Barrett in the 1st, I'd like to see us add another DL prospect in the 2nd. The rest of the draft is peachy keen with me.

4. I like it...but I don't see Rambo as someone who would fit in with Garrett's "RKG" mantra.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
1. Don't think McDonald is worth a top 20 pick.

2. I don't think Jeffcoat really fits a 3-4 scheme.

3. Think we could do better than Gholston.

4. I'd really hate to take another OLB in the 1st.

5. I like John Jenkins

6. And would love Barrett

1. BPA draft would cause a riot.

2. See above

3. I don't see Warmack sliding out of the first round. If we go Barrett in the 1st, I'd like to see us add another DL prospect in the 2nd. The rest of the draft is peachy keen with me.

4. I like it...but I don't see Rambo as someone who would fit in with Garrett's "RKG" mantra.


McDonald may not be. But I didn't think Barron was worth a top 10 pick. If you recall I said if Barron came out this year he would not be the top S taken. So there is a precedent.

I don't think anyone really wants to spend a 1st on another OLB. It's so frustrating our inability to acquire an adequate OLB to pair with Ware - especially given the sheer number of attempts at it we have done. Is their a particular reason you don't like Jeffcoat as an OLB? I know someone else mentioned they didn't - I want to say it was JW.

I think a lot of people are starting to suspect that Dallas regrets passing up on Watt. Not saying it wasn't the right decision, but the Texans are seeing what a dominate DL player can do to a team. SF and Balt have proven that model already. So I get why they view getting a DE or a NT as value.

Well, there is a reason why I don't think BPA is the default best way to draft. I forget the proper term, but NextYear always pimps it out. But the combination of Need and BPA tends to work best.

I really think we will focus most of our energy this draft on the offense as we focused most of last years on the defense. So it will be interesting to see how things work out.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Some Mocks from the web:

15 DALLAS COWBOYS: T.J. MCDONALD, S, USC

http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-A.php


Garbage

Quote:
20. Dallas Cowboys: Jackson Jeffcoat, DE, Texas

http://newnfldraft.com/nfl-mock-draft-first-round-picks-17-24/


Garbage

Quote:
21. Dallas: William Gholston, DE, Michigan St

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2013/2013-nfl-mock-draft.cfm?writer=48&page=2


Garbage

Quote:
18. Dallas Cowboys - Corey Lemonier, DE/OLB, Auburn

http://www.draftking.com/mock/2013/


Garbage

Quote:
15. Dallas Cowboys: Johnathan Jenkins, NT, Georgia

http://walterfootball.com/draft2013.php


Love this pick, but he's a 2nd rounder.

Quote:
17. C Barrett Jones, Alabama

http://www.nfldraftdog.com/Mock-Drafts/2013-nfl-mock-draft.html


Love this pick, but he's o-line so it won't happen.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We picked an offensive lineman 9th overall just two years ago, plan...don't think you can completely rule it out.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
We picked an offensive lineman 9th overall just two years ago, plan...don't think you can completely rule it out.


Des, Jerry is in charge. Romo will literally have to be carted off the field in a stretcher before we draft another o-lineman in the first 4 rounds. That retard would rather throw money at rejects, no named players, and over the hill washouts than draft one. And it's because Jerry couldn't spot a talented offensive lineman if the guy jumped directed onto his face and farted on it.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
We picked an offensive lineman 9th overall just two years ago, plan...don't think you can completely rule it out.


Des, Jerry is in charge. Romo will literally have to be carted off the field in a stretcher before we draft another o-lineman in the first 4 rounds. That retard would rather throw money at rejects, no named players, and over the hill washouts than draft one. And it's because Jerry couldn't spot a talented offensive lineman if the guy jumped directed onto his face and farted on it.


Or...considering this isn't Madden, meaning you only have so many resources to work with, maybe he and Garrett felt that the secondary was the higher reason for the team's woes last season. So, therefore, they went out and signed Brandon Carr. They traded up and selected the BPA on their board (isn't that we want the team to do?) and nabbed Morris Claiborne. As a result, with those two starting and a healthy Mike Jenkins and Scandrick, the defense has been a strength this season.

Obviously, Bernadeuce has been a disappoint. Nobody here is denying that. Nobody proclaimed he would be a Pro Bowl player before the season. All I can remember anyone saying is to give the guy a chance, maybe Callahan could work his magic with him. It didn't happen. Livings has at least been an average starter, so they at least hit on one of the two players they brought in to address the offensive line, at least for this year.

I'm still confident in Arkin making the leap to a starter next year. And I think if the offensive line proves to be a fault yet again, they will address it in the off-season through the draft given that they seemed to pinpoint the secondary as an issue last year and addressed it this off-season.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
We picked an offensive lineman 9th overall just two years ago, plan...don't think you can completely rule it out.


Des, Jerry is in charge. Romo will literally have to be carted off the field in a stretcher before we draft another o-lineman in the first 4 rounds. That retard would rather throw money at rejects, no named players, and over the hill washouts than draft one. And it's because Jerry couldn't spot a talented offensive lineman if the guy jumped directed onto his face and farted on it.


Or...considering this isn't Madden, meaning you only have so many resources to work with, maybe he and Garrett felt that the secondary was the higher reason for the team's woes last season. So, therefore, they went out and signed Brandon Carr. They traded up and selected the BPA on their board (isn't that we want the team to do?) and nabbed Morris Claiborne. As a result, with those two starting and a healthy Mike Jenkins and Scandrick, the defense has been a strength this season.

Obviously, Bernadeuce has been a disappoint. Nobody here is denying that. Nobody proclaimed he would be a Pro Bowl player before the season. All I can remember anyone saying is to give the guy a chance, maybe Callahan could work his magic with him. It didn't happen. Livings has at least been an average starter, so they at least hit on one of the two players they brought in to address the offensive line, at least for this year.

I'm still confident in Arkin making the leap to a starter next year. And I think if the offensive line proves to be a fault yet again, they will address it in the off-season through the draft given that they seemed to pinpoint the secondary as an issue last year and addressed it this off-season.


I'll ask this question again now, just as I asked it in April:

What is more important to winning a championship? Having a solid QB and an offensive line to protect him or a DB?

Des, this isn't about resources, per se. It's about common sense. But, I'll play the game and spin it into a concept of resources...

If you agree that the QB position is the most important position in any sport, then doing what it takes to protect that player should be more important than ANYTHING else. Wouldn't you agree? And considering that we had just spent $50 million on one DB, it would stand to reason - given limited resources - that investing other significant resources in the protection of the team's greatest asset - it's QB - should be of higher importance at that point because we all knew how bad the offensive line was. Ignoring it and going on the cheap does nothing but place your greatest asset at a higher level of risk than necessary. Meaning, the chance for poor offensive play, turnovers, injury, and a bad running game will result; thus placing more pressure on the defense and nullifying any improvement which may have occurred because the offense doesn't let them rest or places them in bad positions due to turnovers.

Now, take the paragraph above and think about the first 4 games of our season and tell me that I'm wrong.

I'll wait.
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