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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lil Uno wrote:
Not a Keenan Allen fan?

Not really, no. I'm not really a fan of any of the WR's this year. A lot of late-1st / early-2nd type guys, but nobody worth a high pick. Maybe Justin Hunter will have a strong year and show something, but Keenan Allen just doesn't impressive me that much.
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Freakout


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't know Te'O lost his grandmother and his girlfriend (?) in the span of 2 days and still went out and played against Michigan State.

I already liked him a lot but talk about mental toughness.
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDBrocks wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
JDBrocks wrote:
If you had to chose between Te'o and Greenway, Te'o would win every time. Watch him play this year. Early on I considered him a 3-4 inside thumper. Watching him in coverage this year he is everywhere on the field. I was high on Keuchly last year, and higher on Te'o this year.


I think this is an unfair direct comparison.
Are you comparing prime Greenway to prime Te'o?
Current/Future Greenway to current/future Teo.

Its not like if we drafted Te'o, he would be replacing Greenway now anyway.


That's not what I was getting at. Right now Greenway is our only 3 down LB, and he's not a great nickel LB at that. Te'o would immediately be the best LB on the team and improve the defense in many ways. We shouldn't be talking about getting by in an area that we have been gashed for years if the solution to that problem is drafting a high impact LB like Te'o. This guy to me has the potential for a Willis type impact on this team.


Te'o might be a great player, but you don't build a 4-3 defense around linebackers. Pass rush is what makes defenses tick, and in the 4-3, the pass rush is coming from the DE's and the DT's, those are the positions you need your elite talent at. A team like the Panthers, with a very good linebacker corps (Kuechly-Beason-Anderson-Davis) is ranked in the bottom 10 in points allowed. The old Seahawks defense with Tatupu-Peterson-Hill sucked. Not saying that linebackers are completely irrelevant, but in the 4-3, where they are mainly run-stoppers, their impact on the defense is limited.

Now great players will always be great, but unless he's the next Ray Lewis or Brian Urlacher, I don't think he'll be the player to put this defense over the top. If there is no wide reciever or pass rusher worth taking I'd consider him, but I find that to be unlikely.

To summarize, I see no point in investing in a 4-3 linebacker when there are needs at more impactful positions like wide reciever and defensive tackle.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Id personally rather stockpile on pass rushers and defensive backs before I even consider taking a starting LB in the first two rounds. Brinkley and Greenway have shown to be an adequate pair of starting 3 down LBs. What is it about their performances against the 49ers and Lions suggest that they need to replaced? The Vikings defense needs more impact players in the form of interior pass rushers and versatile DBs.
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
Id personally rather stockpile on pass rushers and defensive backs before I even consider taking a starting LB in the first two rounds. Brinkley and Greenway have shown to be an adequate pair of starting 3 down LBs. What is it about their performances against the 49ers and Lions suggest that they need to replaced? The Vikings defense needs more impact players in the form of interior pass rushers and versatile DBs.


Exactly. Pass rush -> coverage -> run stopping.

These roles roughly correspond with DE/DT/CB/S/LB in the 4-3. With the amount of nickle we already play, the linebacker is becoming less relevant. I personally see more in either bringing in an athletic cover linebacker (think Michael Boley of the Giants) or a safety/olb hybrid like Kam Chancellor, to fill that inbetween role with better coverage than a pure linebacker, and better run stopping ability than a corner.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kellerman wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
Id personally rather stockpile on pass rushers and defensive backs before I even consider taking a starting LB in the first two rounds. Brinkley and Greenway have shown to be an adequate pair of starting 3 down LBs. What is it about their performances against the 49ers and Lions suggest that they need to replaced? The Vikings defense needs more impact players in the form of interior pass rushers and versatile DBs.


Exactly. Pass rush -> coverage -> run stopping.

These roles roughly correspond with DE/DT/CB/S/LB in the 4-3. With the amount of nickle we already play, the linebacker is becoming less relevant. I personally see more in either bringing in an athletic cover linebacker (think Michael Boley of the Giants) or a safety/olb hybrid like Kam Chancellor, to fill that inbetween role with better coverage than a pure linebacker, and better run stopping ability than a corner.


Khaseem Greene is someone who intrigues me. He began his college career at Safety and and is now a WLB. He might be the ideal 3 down player for this defense. Would be base WLB and move to MLB in nickel, just like Erin Henderson has been doing. Greene is probably a 3rd or 4th rd pick.

You dont need to spend a value pick on a position that has largely been declining in terms of importance for a 4-3 defense.
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question: Has anyone ever seen Kenny Tate (Maryland) play? He's been out with a sprained knee this season, but is set to return soon.

6 ft 4 / 230 lbs

Moved from strong safety to outside linebacker. Could be a similar hybrid prospect to Kam Chancellor.
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
Kellerman wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
Id personally rather stockpile on pass rushers and defensive backs before I even consider taking a starting LB in the first two rounds. Brinkley and Greenway have shown to be an adequate pair of starting 3 down LBs. What is it about their performances against the 49ers and Lions suggest that they need to replaced? The Vikings defense needs more impact players in the form of interior pass rushers and versatile DBs.


Exactly. Pass rush -> coverage -> run stopping.

These roles roughly correspond with DE/DT/CB/S/LB in the 4-3. With the amount of nickle we already play, the linebacker is becoming less relevant. I personally see more in either bringing in an athletic cover linebacker (think Michael Boley of the Giants) or a safety/olb hybrid like Kam Chancellor, to fill that inbetween role with better coverage than a pure linebacker, and better run stopping ability than a corner.


Khaseem Greene is someone who intrigues me. He began his college career at Safety and and is now a WLB. He might be the ideal 3 down player for this defense. Would be base WLB and move to MLB in nickel, just like Erin Henderson has been doing. Greene is probably a 3rd or 4th rd pick.

You dont need to spend a value pick on a position that has largely been declining in terms of importance for a 4-3 defense.


I actually just noticed him on the draft boards today. Seems like a similar SS/OLB hybrid. I'd love for us to be able to draft or sign at least 3 DB's, a SS/OLB, a traditional center field FS, and big outside CB. Drive home the renewal of the coverage unit with conviction, and turn it from a weakness into a strength.
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Lil Uno


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kellerman wrote:
Question: Has anyone ever seen Kenny Tate (Maryland) play? He's been out with a sprained knee this season, but is set to return soon.

6 ft 4 / 230 lbs

Moved from strong safety to outside linebacker. Could be a similar hybrid prospect to Kam Chancellor.


Yeah, at this point Tate is just a passing down specialist. As to be expected, he struggles in run support and relies more on speed than technique and instincts and that field. Not saying he can't be a starter someday, but he can't be an every down player early on.
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lil Uno wrote:
Kellerman wrote:
Question: Has anyone ever seen Kenny Tate (Maryland) play? He's been out with a sprained knee this season, but is set to return soon.

6 ft 4 / 230 lbs

Moved from strong safety to outside linebacker. Could be a similar hybrid prospect to Kam Chancellor.


Yeah, at this point Tate is just a passing down specialist. As to be expected, he struggles in run support and relies more on speed than technique and instincts and that field. Not saying he can't be a starter someday, but he can't be an every down player early on.


Looking at his current stock, I wouldn't expect him to be, but maybe he can develop into something more. He has seems to have the instincts and athleticism. I watched a few videos of him, and I did come away unimpressed with his ability vs. the run. sloppy tackling mostly. Maybe he's more of a safety than a linebacker.
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Sloppy28


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
Kellerman wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
Id personally rather stockpile on pass rushers and defensive backs before I even consider taking a starting LB in the first two rounds. Brinkley and Greenway have shown to be an adequate pair of starting 3 down LBs. What is it about their performances against the 49ers and Lions suggest that they need to replaced? The Vikings defense needs more impact players in the form of interior pass rushers and versatile DBs.


Exactly. Pass rush -> coverage -> run stopping.

These roles roughly correspond with DE/DT/CB/S/LB in the 4-3. With the amount of nickle we already play, the linebacker is becoming less relevant. I personally see more in either bringing in an athletic cover linebacker (think Michael Boley of the Giants) or a safety/olb hybrid like Kam Chancellor, to fill that inbetween role with better coverage than a pure linebacker, and better run stopping ability than a corner.


Khaseem Greene is someone who intrigues me. He began his college career at Safety and and is now a WLB. He might be the ideal 3 down player for this defense. Would be base WLB and move to MLB in nickel, just like Erin Henderson has been doing. Greene is probably a 3rd or 4th rd pick.

You dont need to spend a value pick on a position that has largely been declining in terms of importance for a 4-3 defense.


Keeping on this subject, this years draft has a lot of players that interest me and I would like to know more about. Seems like this years draft is pretty deep at LB. Has anyone seen the following guys play multiple times and can give us some insight on whether or not they would be ideal for either a 3 down ILB or WLB and ILB in the Nickle packages?

Arthur Brown - Kansas State, C.J. Mosley - Alabama, Khaseem Greene - Rutgers, Jonathan Brown - Illinois, Jelani Jenkins - Florida, Gerald Hodges - Penn State, Zaviar Gooden - Missouri, Michael Mauti - Penn State
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Freakout


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sloppy28 wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
Kellerman wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
Id personally rather stockpile on pass rushers and defensive backs before I even consider taking a starting LB in the first two rounds. Brinkley and Greenway have shown to be an adequate pair of starting 3 down LBs. What is it about their performances against the 49ers and Lions suggest that they need to replaced? The Vikings defense needs more impact players in the form of interior pass rushers and versatile DBs.


Exactly. Pass rush -> coverage -> run stopping.

These roles roughly correspond with DE/DT/CB/S/LB in the 4-3. With the amount of nickle we already play, the linebacker is becoming less relevant. I personally see more in either bringing in an athletic cover linebacker (think Michael Boley of the Giants) or a safety/olb hybrid like Kam Chancellor, to fill that inbetween role with better coverage than a pure linebacker, and better run stopping ability than a corner.


Khaseem Greene is someone who intrigues me. He began his college career at Safety and and is now a WLB. He might be the ideal 3 down player for this defense. Would be base WLB and move to MLB in nickel, just like Erin Henderson has been doing. Greene is probably a 3rd or 4th rd pick.

You dont need to spend a value pick on a position that has largely been declining in terms of importance for a 4-3 defense.


Keeping on this subject, this years draft has a lot of players that interest me and I would like to know more about. Seems like this years draft is pretty deep at LB. Has anyone seen the following guys play multiple times and can give us some insight on whether or not they would be ideal for either a 3 down ILB or WLB and ILB in the Nickle packages?

Arthur Brown - Kansas State, C.J. Mosley - Alabama, Khaseem Greene - Rutgers, Jonathan Brown - Illinois, Jelani Jenkins - Florida, Gerald Hodges - Penn State, Zaviar Gooden - Missouri, Michael Mauti - Penn State


I love CJ Mosley and wouldn't be shocked if he didn't solidify himself as a late 1st rounder because if he declares he should have a pretty good Combine. I actually like him more than Te'O for our defense.
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Sloppy28


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm all for loading up on well-coached defensive players from Bama and LSU.
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perrynoid


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDBrocks wrote:
If the Steelers franchise Mike Wallace, would he be worth a 1st and 3rd?

As opposed to trading those picks to move up for a Justin Hunter or Keenan Allen? He is only 26, but his new contract would be weigh a lot more against the cap.


Acquiring Wallace really intrigues me. Suppose we were to trade down from the middle of the first round to later in the round (and hopefully pick up a 2nd in the process). Since teams seem to over-value draft picks leading up to and during the draft, perhaps we could entice the Steelers into taking just a late-1st for him? Then we would have a decent WR core of Wallace-Simpson-Harvin-Rudolph. What would you think about this scenario?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

perrynoid wrote:
JDBrocks wrote:
If the Steelers franchise Mike Wallace, would he be worth a 1st and 3rd?

As opposed to trading those picks to move up for a Justin Hunter or Keenan Allen? He is only 26, but his new contract would be weigh a lot more against the cap.


Acquiring Wallace really intrigues me. Suppose we were to trade down from the middle of the first round to later in the round (and hopefully pick up a 2nd in the process). Since teams seem to over-value draft picks leading up to and during the draft, perhaps we could entice the Steelers into taking just a late-1st for him? Then we would have a decent WR core of Wallace-Simpson-Harvin-Rudolph. What would you think about this scenario?


You have to remember that you're not just getting a good player, but you're also getting someone who wants to get paid.

As for Wallace, I think he's an elite talent, but I'm not sure if the fit is there 100%. He's not a complete reciever, and if I'm spending a 1st, that's what I want.
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