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So how is Jonathan Martin doing so far?
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 10026
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: So how is Jonathan Martin doing so far? Reply with quote

I know he's been over at RT. How's he been doing?
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Warpticon


Joined: 21 May 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rough around the edges, but growing quickly.

In the early preseason he looked like a liability, getting beat a lot. Since then, though, he's gotten progressively more consistent ever since and is already a solid starter now. Has a chance to be much better than that.

Extremely sharp kid, fast learner, makes adjustments. Very high on him personally.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was god awful in preseason, but has shown some improvement. He is also getting a good deal of help from TE's and RB who chip. His feet are not as swift as advertised but he knows the system well and seems to be getting better quickly. The jury is out, as far as I can tell. Some here want him moved to LT next year and Jake Long allowed to walk. However, from what I've seen of Martin's feet he is strictly a right tackle at this point.
Jake Long, however, will need to figure out this new blocking scheme or he will certainly be gone next year and won't command anywhere near the salary he was expecting.
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WaterBear56


Joined: 26 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JJ Watt killed him but since then he has been doing just fine. I don't think he is having as much of an impact as Pouncey did but I will tell you he is MUCH better than he was during the preseason. Tells you he learns fast.
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1953
Location: santa rosa california
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin is playing solid for a rookie,after 4 games he has only given up one sack and 2 hits on the QB. Not sure about the run game but he seems to be doing ok in that. Another rookie who was liked in this forum bobbie massie just gave up 4 1/2 sacks to wake and 7 on the year already.
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dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
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Location: New York
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
He was god awful in preseason, but has shown some improvement. He is also getting a good deal of help from TE's and RB who chip. His feet are not as swift as advertised but he knows the system well and seems to be getting better quickly. The jury is out, as far as I can tell. Some here want him moved to LT next year and Jake Long allowed to walk. However, from what I've seen of Martin's feet he is strictly a right tackle at this point.
Jake Long, however, will need to figure out this new blocking scheme or he will certainly be gone next year and won't command anywhere near the salary he was expecting.


That's like asking Javorski Lane to play corner. LOL

Just jokes Merc, but it's more than just figuring schemes out. These positions have ideal height and weight requirements for a reason. This scheme might be hurting him physically.

Which leads me to one of my points about this owner / GM ... I think they are afraid of the fan base. That fear got rid of Cameron. That fear is linked to Ross trust in Parcells to the point that the trust trickled down to Ireland.
That fear has also (in my opinion) prevented this organization for having the stones to do something about Jake Long. If anyone had a trade me sign on his back, it's long. The contract. The conflict in skill set in scheme and the need for draft picks and a LT that has the athleticism to play the position in this scheme are blatant, but went ignored.

Everyone is worried about duplicating JAke Long's "talent" like I'm suggesting we turn in our winning lottery ticket in hopes that the price of lottery tickets will go down. The truth of the matter is, we can get the LT version of Jonathan Martin or better with a little research. And the fan base will get over it.
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ViolentMonk71


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 3766
Location: Don Shula's front porch
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WaterBear56 wrote:
JJ Watt killed him but since then he has been doing just fine. I don't think he is having as much of an impact as Pouncey did but I will tell you he is MUCH better than he was during the preseason. Tells you he learns fast.


With all due respect...JJ Watt has embarrassed quite a few lineman this year...
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phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: South Carolina
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
He was god awful in preseason, but has shown some improvement. He is also getting a good deal of help from TE's and RB who chip. His feet are not as swift as advertised but he knows the system well and seems to be getting better quickly. The jury is out, as far as I can tell. Some here want him moved to LT next year and Jake Long allowed to walk. However, from what I've seen of Martin's feet he is strictly a right tackle at this point.
Jake Long, however, will need to figure out this new blocking scheme or he will certainly be gone next year and won't command anywhere near the salary he was expecting.


That's like asking Javorski Lane to play corner. LOL

Just jokes Merc, but it's more than just figuring schemes out. These positions have ideal height and weight requirements for a reason. This scheme might be hurting him physically.

Which leads me to one of my points about this owner / GM ... I think they are afraid of the fan base. That fear got rid of Cameron. That fear is linked to Ross trust in Parcells to the point that the trust trickled down to Ireland.
That fear has also (in my opinion) prevented this organization for having the stones to do something about Jake Long. If anyone had a trade me sign on his back, it's long. The contract. The conflict in skill set in scheme and the need for draft picks and a LT that has the athleticism to play the position in this scheme are blatant, but went ignored.

Everyone is worried about duplicating JAke Long's "talent" like I'm suggesting we turn in our winning lottery ticket in hopes that the price of lottery tickets will go down. The truth of the matter is, we can get the LT version of Jonathan Martin or better with a little research. And the fan base will get over it.


No offense but the head games some of you guys play inside your conspiracy theories draw away from the points you're making and make it nearly impossible to effectively nail down just what is fact and what is fiction inside your views.

Why is it better to discuss such esoteric and ill-defined topics in support of pure conjecture as opposed to meaningful scheme- and performance-oriented points?

You more than anyone seem intent on discussing Jake's limitations but you only hint at apparently meaningful conversations you and Ovaw are having in private.

If you have insight you're welcome to and should display it. It would add credibility to the points you make and raise the level of this forum greatly.

These are smart men who run this organization, with jobs to do. They weigh the ups and downs and unfortunately for the fans who don't always appreciate the full dilemma a team is confronted with, there's not a beautiful and simple answer to every little glitch in the building of an organization.

That's why so many plans constructed by well-prepared individuals fail so catastrophically. In the draft. In free agency. In the regular season. In the post-season.

Things go wrong and pieces don't fit. There's no magic in this or any other business, only decisions; sometimes those made between the lesser of two symptoms. The notion that a weakness can become a strength through simple thought and clever slight of hand is rarely, if ever, realized because we just don't live in a world where problems are fixed without hard work and a natural, healthy suffering.

Sometimes however the best move is tolerance and patience. I dare say it seems obvious now that it was more important to replace Columbo with a player like Martin than it was to replace Jake Long. But what of the mutual exclusivity of those two moves?! Every move the franchise has made under Philbin has indicated that there was much thought put into it. We can't simultaneously start a rookie RT and a rookie LT any more than we can simultaneously start two rookies at LG and LT.

There is a difference between getting rid of the 'win now' philosophy that has undermined previous developments in Miami and completely giving away all attempts at maintaining national credibility and the type of competitiveness we're currently seeing! That is important and must at all costs be kept alive for not only the fans but also the future of the project itself!

You have to accept what's in front of you and make the right decisions when it's time to change and play football when it's time to do that. We all accept that one can't overhaul a team in a single year but I feel no shame in reporting that you or anyone else expecting an O-line to be constructed on a more immediate basis is the same sin. A sin who's punishment will be no less severe than what has been heaped upon this franchise for so long!

We put Pouncey on the line in 2011. We put Martin on the line in 2012. If we do in fact replace Jake Long with a rookie LT in 2013 we'll have one of the youngest and most inexperienced O-lines in the NFL assuming Jerry is again playing RG. The only true veteran at that point will be Incognito who will likely be replaced in 2014 (if not sooner).

You of all people, who appreciate the tragic comedy we have watched over the last decade plus should be ready and willing to accept this healthy maturation. A growth managed properly with reasonable expectations and meaningful foresight.
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dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
No offense but the head games some of you guys play inside your conspiracy theories draw away from the points you're making and make it nearly impossible to effectively nail down just what is fact and what is fiction inside your views.


Don't over complicate this just to meet your word count quota ... I didn't identify any parties trying to conspire. I pointed out what I believe looks like a fear of the fan base. And there is no need for you to nail down any fact or fiction because this is my opinion.

phinmun wrote:

Why is it better to discuss such esoteric and ill-defined topics in support of pure conjecture as opposed to meaningful scheme- and performance-oriented points?

You more than anyone seem intent on discussing Jake's limitations but you only hint at apparently meaningful conversations you and Ovaw are having in private.

If you have insight you're welcome to and should display it. It would add credibility to the points you make and raise the level of this forum greatly.


Just because you don't understand my clearly stated views, doesn't mean it's esoteric. Speak for yourself. Everyone clearly sees where I'm coming from. And it's far from ill-defined. I'm talking about the building of this team and identifying value and fit. And All I have used to support my stance is scheme and performance. Is that not defined enough for you ?

And please know that any reference i make to what Ovaw8lover has stated, is a reference to statements he has made for all to read. These where not private conversations. You are making assumptions.
More over, i am not hiding insight. My thoughts on the matter are well documented and old. They have been consistent and have earned it's own credibility. So the forum is none the worse for it. This is still an environment where ideas about our favorite team are welcomed and informative.

phinmun wrote:

These are smart men who run this organization, with jobs to do. They weigh the ups and downs and unfortunately for the fans who don't always appreciate the full dilemma a team is confronted with, there's not a beautiful and simple answer to every little glitch in the building of an organization.

That's why so many plans constructed by well-prepared individuals fail so catastrophically. In the draft. In free agency. In the regular season. In the post-season.

Things go wrong and pieces don't fit. There's no magic in this or any other business, only decisions; sometimes those made between the lesser of two symptoms. The notion that a weakness can become a strength through simple thought and clever slight of hand is rarely, if ever, realized because we just don't live in a world where problems are fixed without hard work and a natural, healthy suffering.


Whatever ... I never said any of this was simple. Don't create notions about simple thought and clever slight of hand and make them mine.

phinmun wrote:

Sometimes however the best move is tolerance and patience. I dare say it seems obvious now that it was more important to replace Columbo with a player like Martin than it was to replace Jake Long. But what of the mutual exclusivity of those two moves?! Every move the franchise has made under Philbin has indicated that there was much thought put into it. We can't simultaneously start a rookie RT and a rookie LT any more than we can simultaneously start two rookies at LG and LT.


I'd like to see where I've said that we should fill our offensive line with Rookies. Funny thing is that our offensive line draft choices have panned out while these so called experienced vets have disappointed or been unlucky. So far in regards to scheme, only Pouncey and Martin properly fit what we are trying to do. I'm not saying this is a code red problem but over time it must be addressed.

Everything else you've written/typed is more unreadable dribble, but because it's repetitive, I am going to dismiss it and say that we will revisit this topic when we either franchise this dude or let him walk for nothing. Because no one had the balls to strike while the iron was hot.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shipping out Jake Long will be yet again, another example of a scheme change pushing out elite talent because it doesn't fit. That, my fellow fish fans, is why we have wallowed in the cellar of the NFL for so long. Every since Don Shula left, really. Yes, there were some decent years since then, but in each regime change we've lost bit talent to scheme change.

I go back time and time again to this. Bum Phillips once said this" Shula can take his'n and beat your'n or he can take your'n and beat his'n." Screw the scheme. Acquire talent. play quality ball with strong fundamentals and win games. Don Shula won with teams with strong passing games, he won with teams that had ran like crazy, and he won with other teams due to sick defense. A great coach should be able to win in many different ways. The search for the scheme that works is killing this team by talent drains every couple of years. Its annoying as hell.
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dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
Shipping out Jake Long will be yet again, another example of a scheme change pushing out elite talent because it doesn't fit. That, my fellow fish fans, is why we have wallowed in the cellar of the NFL for so long. Every since Don Shula left, really. Yes, there were some decent years since then, but in each regime change we've lost bit talent to scheme change.

I go back time and time again to this. Bum Phillips once said this" Shula can take his'n and beat your'n or he can take your'n and beat his'n." Screw the scheme. Acquire talent. play quality ball with strong fundamentals and win games. Don Shula won with teams with strong passing games, he won with teams that had ran like crazy, and he won with other teams due to sick defense. A great coach should be able to win in many different ways. The search for the scheme that works is killing this team by talent drains every couple of years. Its annoying as hell.


Merc, my friend ... get out your calender and make arrangements to visit south beach this season, because this may be your last opportunity to see Jake Long in a Dolphin uniform before he offends our senses in a Jets one. He is looking like Clark Kent out there and he will do whatever he has to to get to that phone booth where he can look and be paid like superman.

And I would agree with you 100 % about your scheme search theory if it was one coach changing schemes over and over and forcing the roster to fit. But we keep changing coaches and they each have their idea of what is best for the roster. I would have never made these statements under Dan Henning. ANd I was 100% in favor of drafting JAke Long because we where a running team. All of his highlight reels showed him mowing down defenders and getting to the 2nd level on power run plays in a power run scheme. We had been skimping on the OLine for years. But Am I crazy for wanting an LT that can pass protect in an area or get outside for a screen pass ? That's what this offense calls for.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnathan Martin seems to be making progress from his rookie Pre Season display.

On another note ... last night saw 2 teams in Ari & St Louis whom are desperate to run the football &
in even worse need of a power running gm LOT.

I'm, wondering if any of them would cough up a 2nd rndr by gm #8...?

possible destinations for J Long:
Philly - Chi - Ari - St. Louis

sug
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Fender


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Fear of the fanbase'? The fear that shipped out or only star on offense, or our best cornerback?
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fender wrote:
'Fear of the fanbase'? The fear that shipped out or only star on offense, or our best cornerback?


This is true... This is very true...

Ireland has NEVER demonstrated that the fan base sways his decisions EVER! To the point that he makes mistakes when he should have listened to the fans. But say what you want about the guy, he has a plan and doesn't veer from it no matter what he thinks the fans want.
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dolphinologist


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
Fender wrote:
'Fear of the fanbase'? The fear that shipped out or only star on offense, or our best cornerback?


This is true... This is very true...

Ireland has NEVER demonstrated that the fan base sways his decisions EVER! To the point that he makes mistakes when he should have listened to the fans. But say what you want about the guy, he has a plan and doesn't veer from it no matter what he thinks the fans want.


Fear doesn't mean in tune. I didn't say he was in tune with the fan base. Fear completely different. Almost exactly opposite. ANd Irelands plans seem to change with the coach he has hired. And I don't believe that fear transfered over to the Sherman Philbin era where in now.
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