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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5765
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
holyghost wrote:

My only point about the media, fans, off-field, and reads was that he doesn't do any of them?!
None of them.

And yeah, the DC calls the plays. But I don't remember the guy making any good reads even, or adjustments. Sometimes it looks like he is, but the result is non existent. Isn't that what was talked about with this guy from day one, with all that film study crap? That he would be some sort of advantage in the middle, when all he's turned out to be is a disadvantage in every way a guy can be graded.

I disagree and think that some of this stuff is his fault. He's the MLB and was touted as some great read guy. I expected him to elevate the defense, and was entirely hoping he'd be some sort of Ray Lewis type or at least Willis, or even slightly resemble any top player for that matter. We all hoped that.
Instead he's driftwood out there. Driftwood.

I don't want to debate it endlessly with you man, I'm just hoping at least you can admit there isn't much he has actually done well. We all know that.



Fair enough. Obviously we expected different things when he was drafted. I always said his play as been average, never claimed it was brilliant but I just don't feel he's been as terrible as people make him out to be.


I agree with that man, you can throw out a hundred UDFAs out there who will be abominations well beyond McClain. But for the 8th pick, we s desperately needed to hit on this one.
He was supposed to be another safe pick like Gallery. Not the freak for once, but the football player.
To have that not pan out really hurts this time..
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:

I'm not ignoring facts. You are giving me none and never do because I can only assume you haven't a clue what you are talking and all simply peddling a popular line, which is what most people are doing. Tell me the plays this season where he has whiffed, been poor in coverage and generally been terrible. I just don't see the massive number that you and everyone else claims.


Against Miami he whiffed big as life on Fasano's easy TD. He was unable to shed blocks and make tackles in the run game.

Against Denver. WOW..... you serious. Point out a time when he's doing something right. Constantly blocked with ease in the run game. On Hillman's catch and run, just a jogging effort made as he blew by.

Decker's TD, he jogs over to Decker, then leaves him to jogg literally jog at Manning. His man? Not sure, but he was just JOGGING on the play no matter his assignment.

Lance Ball goes over the middle with McClain in coverage. He falls backwards and Ball walks in for a TD.

Both are here and you can see him get worked over the middle a number of other times:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap1000000067845/Week-4-Peyton-Manning-highlights
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22432
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember reading this leading up to the draft because many though KC would take McClain:

http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2010/3/28/1394238/rolando-mcclain-crappy-tackler

At the time, I didn't think McClain a slow MLB would be on Davis's radar, so I didn't ay it much attention except that a division rival might take him. But then when he was drafted, I tried to ignore it and hope for the best.

These guys were dead on:

Quote:
"He isnt that good and most scouts know it. He has a good head on him but he is a below average tackler and way below average speed... [KC GM Scott] Pioli isnt going to take a diseased LB with mediocore tape." -


Quote:
"The guy looks slow at times. His tackling isnít nearly solid enough for a top 10 pick (he seems to rely more on strength than technique). His effort and ability to be an elite LB has been questioned by NFL scouts. Oh, and he has an incurable, debilitating disease." -

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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5285
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Raidin wrote:

I'm not ignoring facts. You are giving me none and never do because I can only assume you haven't a clue what you are talking and all simply peddling a popular line, which is what most people are doing. Tell me the plays this season where he has whiffed, been poor in coverage and generally been terrible. I just don't see the massive number that you and everyone else claims.


Against Miami he whiffed big as life on Fasano's easy TD. He was unable to shed blocks and make tackles in the run game.

Against Denver. WOW..... you serious. Point out a time when he's doing something right. Constantly blocked with ease in the run game. On Hillman's catch and run, just a jogging effort made as he blew by.

Decker's TD, he jogs over to Decker, then leaves him to jogg literally jog at Manning. His man? Not sure, but he was just JOGGING on the play no matter his assignment.

Lance Ball goes over the middle with McClain in coverage. He falls backwards and Ball walks in for a TD.

Both are here and you can see him get worked over the middle a number of other times:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap1000000067845/Week-4-Peyton-Manning-highlights



That's it? Seriously? 4 games in and you've got about 5 plays. Wow. Who would have thought a player could make 5 mistakes in 4 games, that's a disgrace. You're right, I was wrong. Arguably the worst ever nfl play? I think a case can be made for that. I mean 4 or 5 mistakes in 4 games must be unheard. Thank god the rest of our defensive players like Huff, Branch, Wheeler, Burris, Seymour, Kelly etc etc have made no where close to those number of mistakes.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5765
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
I remember reading this leading up to the draft because many though KC would take McClain:

http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2010/3/28/1394238/rolando-mcclain-crappy-tackler

At the time, I didn't think McClain a slow MLB would be on Davis's radar, so I didn't ay it much attention except that a division rival might take him. But then when he was drafted, I tried to ignore it and hope for the best.

These guys were dead on:

Quote:
"He isnt that good and most scouts know it. He has a good head on him but he is a below average tackler and way below average speed... [KC GM Scott] Pioli isnt going to take a diseased LB with mediocore tape." -


Quote:
"The guy looks slow at times. His tackling isnít nearly solid enough for a top 10 pick (he seems to rely more on strength than technique). His effort and ability to be an elite LB has been questioned by NFL scouts. Oh, and he has an incurable, debilitating disease." -


They were dead on.
But at least point out that the site and writers were and are like the fans from Bleacher Report. These aren't sportswriters. I don't want to feel worse about the pick than I already do. He was generally top 15 consensus and wouldn't have dropped past the Giants who if I remember correct were 14 or 15.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22432
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Raidin wrote:

I'm not ignoring facts. You are giving me none and never do because I can only assume you haven't a clue what you are talking and all simply peddling a popular line, which is what most people are doing. Tell me the plays this season where he has whiffed, been poor in coverage and generally been terrible. I just don't see the massive number that you and everyone else claims.


Against Miami he whiffed big as life on Fasano's easy TD. He was unable to shed blocks and make tackles in the run game.

Against Denver. WOW..... you serious. Point out a time when he's doing something right. Constantly blocked with ease in the run game. On Hillman's catch and run, just a jogging effort made as he blew by.

Decker's TD, he jogs over to Decker, then leaves him to jogg literally jog at Manning. His man? Not sure, but he was just JOGGING on the play no matter his assignment.

Lance Ball goes over the middle with McClain in coverage. He falls backwards and Ball walks in for a TD.

Both are here and you can see him get worked over the middle a number of other times:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap1000000067845/Week-4-Peyton-Manning-highlights



That's it? Seriously? 4 games in and you've got about 5 plays. Wow. Who would have thought a player could make 5 mistakes in 4 games, that's a disgrace. You're right, I was wrong. Arguably the worst ever nfl play? I think a case can be made for that. I mean 4 or 5 mistakes in 4 games must be unheard. Thank god the rest of our defensive players like Huff, Branch, Wheeler, Burris, Seymour, Kelly etc etc have made no where close to those number of mistakes.


Whatever. Typical response. I'm not going to break down every single play. Waste of my time. Those were the major ones. There are countless head scratchers. Bad angles. Plays where he just jets right into the chest of a blocker. Lots and lots of jogging around. Missed run fits, tackles, etc in run defense.

Your his biggest apologist. If you can't see it, then don't know what to tell you. Go watch the coaches tape available to fans now and watch him jog around, miss assignments and just generally be underwhelming. It's all right there.

Guarantee you this. He won't be starting in Oakland next year. If they could replace him, I bet they would. If he has anything to offer, he'll stick around right?
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
I remember reading this leading up to the draft because many though KC would take McClain:

http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2010/3/28/1394238/rolando-mcclain-crappy-tackler

At the time, I didn't think McClain a slow MLB would be on Davis's radar, so I didn't ay it much attention except that a division rival might take him. But then when he was drafted, I tried to ignore it and hope for the best.

These guys were dead on:

Quote:
"He isnt that good and most scouts know it. He has a good head on him but he is a below average tackler and way below average speed... [KC GM Scott] Pioli isnt going to take a diseased LB with mediocore tape." -


Quote:
"The guy looks slow at times. His tackling isnít nearly solid enough for a top 10 pick (he seems to rely more on strength than technique). His effort and ability to be an elite LB has been questioned by NFL scouts. Oh, and he has an incurable, debilitating disease." -


They were dead on.
But at least point out that the site and writers were and are like the fans from Bleacher Report. These aren't sportswriters. I don't want to feel worse about the pick than I already do. He was generally top 15 consensus and wouldn't have dropped past the Giants who if I remember correct were 14 or 15.


I was aware where they from. Which is why I didn't take them seriously at the time. But they seem to have nailed it.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:


Whatever. Typical response. I'm not going to break down every single play. Waste of my time. Those were the major ones. There are countless head scratchers. Bad angles. Plays where he just jets right into the chest of a blocker. Lots and lots of jogging around. Missed run fits, tackles, etc in run defense.

Your his biggest apologist. If you can't see it, then don't know what to tell you. Go watch the coaches tape available to fans now and watch him jog around, miss assignments and just generally be underwhelming. It's all right there.

Guarantee you this. He won't be starting in Oakland next year. If they could replace him, I bet they would. If he has anything to offer, he'll stick around right?




haha, you breaking down every single play would be a good laugh. Looking at your view on the Decker TD leaves me with the feeling that you haven't much of a clue tbh. Quite clearly Decker isn't Rolandos man and as for him jogging on the play? What's he meant to do, sprint past the player he's covering? Confused

"Countless head scratches bad angles" Laughing It seems your maths skills are about as bad as your play dissecting skills if you think it's countless. No doubt the two TDs he gave away were terrible. There's probably been about 10 other plays he's done poorly. Roughly about 12 poor plays, didn't realise you had difficulty counting that high, might have been the use of double digits that had you.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14801
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
big_palooka wrote:


Whatever. Typical response. I'm not going to break down every single play. Waste of my time. Those were the major ones. There are countless head scratchers. Bad angles. Plays where he just jets right into the chest of a blocker. Lots and lots of jogging around. Missed run fits, tackles, etc in run defense.

Your his biggest apologist. If you can't see it, then don't know what to tell you. Go watch the coaches tape available to fans now and watch him jog around, miss assignments and just generally be underwhelming. It's all right there.

Guarantee you this. He won't be starting in Oakland next year. If they could replace him, I bet they would. If he has anything to offer, he'll stick around right?




haha, you breaking down every single play would be a good laugh. Looking at your view on the Decker TD leaves me with the feeling that you haven't much of a clue tbh. Quite clearly Decker isn't Rolandos man and as for him jogging on the play? What's he meant to do, sprint past the player he's covering? Confused

"Countless head scratches bad angles" Laughing It seems your maths skills are about as bad as your play dissecting skills if you think it's countless. No doubt the two TDs he gave away were terrible. There's probably been about 10 other plays he's done poorly. Roughly about 12 poor plays, didn't realise you had difficulty counting that high, might have been the use of double digits that had you.


ill give you this. rolo looked half way decent under marshall.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22432
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
big_palooka wrote:


Whatever. Typical response. I'm not going to break down every single play. Waste of my time. Those were the major ones. There are countless head scratchers. Bad angles. Plays where he just jets right into the chest of a blocker. Lots and lots of jogging around. Missed run fits, tackles, etc in run defense.

Your his biggest apologist. If you can't see it, then don't know what to tell you. Go watch the coaches tape available to fans now and watch him jog around, miss assignments and just generally be underwhelming. It's all right there.

Guarantee you this. He won't be starting in Oakland next year. If they could replace him, I bet they would. If he has anything to offer, he'll stick around right?




haha, you breaking down every single play would be a good laugh. Looking at your view on the Decker TD leaves me with the feeling that you haven't much of a clue tbh. Quite clearly Decker isn't Rolandos man and as for him jogging on the play? What's he meant to do, sprint past the player he's covering? Confused

"Countless head scratches bad angles" Laughing It seems your maths skills are about as bad as your play dissecting skills if you think it's countless. No doubt the two TDs he gave away were terrible. There's probably been about 10 other plays he's done poorly. Roughly about 12 poor plays, didn't realise you had difficulty counting that high, might have been the use of double digits that had you.


Who was he covering? I saw him leave Decker (and acknowledged it might not be his man) and jog into open space. No idea what his assignment was. Looked man, he drifted into a 'zone'.

Anyway, I'm done with this. You can sit here and poke all the fun you like. Be 'that' guy who can't make an argument for why he is doing anything well, instead try to humor the situation. Yes 'countless'. As in for 3 years, he's been taking poor angles and I've lost count.

You are just turning a blind eye to his mediocre play on the field and that's fine. He will be cut this offseason most likely which will tell everyone what they already know. He's not cutting it as a starting MLB.

Enjoy being his apologist. It's a lonely island. Notice nobody else going to bat for him. Guess you know something we don't..... oh wait, you just know football better than everybody else and we are all just soaking up the media Rolling Eyes

Edit:

Do us a favor. Give some examples of where he's played well in the last 3 weeks. What evidence is there he is worth keeping around and starting (other than the obvious lack of depth).
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:

Who was he covering? I saw him leave Decker (and acknowledged it might not be his man) and jog into open space. No idea what his assignment was. Looked man, he drifted into a 'zone'.

Anyway, I'm done with this. You can sit here and poke all the fun you like. Be 'that' guy who can't make an argument for why he is doing anything well, instead try to humor the situation. Yes 'countless'. As in for 3 years, he's been taking poor angles and I've lost count.

You are just turning a blind eye to his mediocre play on the field and that's fine. He will be cut this offseason most likely which will tell everyone what they already know. He's not cutting it as a starting MLB.

Enjoy being his apologist. It's a lonely island. Notice nobody else going to bat for him. Guess you know something we don't..... oh wait, you just know football better than everybody else and we are all just soaking up the media Rolling Eyes

Edit:

Do us a favor. Give some examples of where he's played well in the last 3 weeks. What evidence is there he is worth keeping around and starting (other than the obvious lack of depth).



He was covering the running back. Huff was covering Decker but ran into Pat Lee(I think) and took himself out of the play.

You see I never said he does things well, I just don't make up complete over the top BS like you do and then we asked to come up with evidence provide very little. There are far far more plays where he hasn't done anything wrong then he has messed up. He also hasn't made any more mistakes than the vast majority of players on our defense.


He's had a couple of good stops over the last 3 weeks. Had some completions on him but important made the tackle straight away and stopped a first down. Couple of players where he's been smart in containing a player. Hasn't done much spectactular but he's been pretty consistent. Couple of bad play, couple of good ones but for the most part he's not an obvious liability who gets picked on religiously like Gio or our cornberbacks.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
I remember reading this leading up to the draft because many though KC would take McClain:

http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2010/3/28/1394238/rolando-mcclain-crappy-tackler

At the time, I didn't think McClain a slow MLB would be on Davis's radar, so I didn't ay it much attention except that a division rival might take him. But then when he was drafted, I tried to ignore it and hope for the best.

These guys were dead on:

Quote:
"He isnt that good and most scouts know it. He has a good head on him but he is a below average tackler and way below average speed... [KC GM Scott] Pioli isnt going to take a diseased LB with mediocore tape." -


Quote:
"The guy looks slow at times. His tackling isnít nearly solid enough for a top 10 pick (he seems to rely more on strength than technique). His effort and ability to be an elite LB has been questioned by NFL scouts. Oh, and he has an incurable, debilitating disease." -


Many thought the Broncos and Giants would take him as well.

The funny thing is had Al Davis drafted JPP, everyone would have laughed, saying typical Al Davis pick. If only... Sad
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
I remember reading this leading up to the draft because many though KC would take McClain:

http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2010/3/28/1394238/rolando-mcclain-crappy-tackler

At the time, I didn't think McClain a slow MLB would be on Davis's radar, so I didn't ay it much attention except that a division rival might take him. But then when he was drafted, I tried to ignore it and hope for the best.

These guys were dead on:

Quote:
"He isnt that good and most scouts know it. He has a good head on him but he is a below average tackler and way below average speed... [KC GM Scott] Pioli isnt going to take a diseased LB with mediocore tape." -


Quote:
"The guy looks slow at times. His tackling isnít nearly solid enough for a top 10 pick (he seems to rely more on strength than technique). His effort and ability to be an elite LB has been questioned by NFL scouts. Oh, and he has an incurable, debilitating disease." -


Many thought the Broncos and Giants would take him as well.

The funny thing is had Al Davis drafted JPP, everyone would have laughed, saying typical Al Davis pick. If only... Sad


thats one thing i liked about al. still dont know why he picked rolo i didnt think he was fast enough for a top ten pick.
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 4576
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
I remember reading this leading up to the draft because many though KC would take McClain:

http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2010/3/28/1394238/rolando-mcclain-crappy-tackler

At the time, I didn't think McClain a slow MLB would be on Davis's radar, so I didn't ay it much attention except that a division rival might take him. But then when he was drafted, I tried to ignore it and hope for the best.

These guys were dead on:

Quote:
"He isnt that good and most scouts know it. He has a good head on him but he is a below average tackler and way below average speed... [KC GM Scott] Pioli isnt going to take a diseased LB with mediocore tape." -


Quote:
"The guy looks slow at times. His tackling isnít nearly solid enough for a top 10 pick (he seems to rely more on strength than technique). His effort and ability to be an elite LB has been questioned by NFL scouts. Oh, and he has an incurable, debilitating disease." -


Many thought the Broncos and Giants would take him as well.

The funny thing is had Al Davis drafted JPP, everyone would have laughed, saying typical Al Davis pick. If only... Sad


thats one thing i liked about al. still dont know why he picked rolo i didnt think he was fast enough for a top ten pick.


I still say MLB is not worth a top 10 pick Wink
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5765
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
I remember reading this leading up to the draft because many though KC would take McClain:

http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2010/3/28/1394238/rolando-mcclain-crappy-tackler

At the time, I didn't think McClain a slow MLB would be on Davis's radar, so I didn't ay it much attention except that a division rival might take him. But then when he was drafted, I tried to ignore it and hope for the best.

These guys were dead on:

Quote:
"He isnt that good and most scouts know it. He has a good head on him but he is a below average tackler and way below average speed... [KC GM Scott] Pioli isnt going to take a diseased LB with mediocore tape." -


Quote:
"The guy looks slow at times. His tackling isnít nearly solid enough for a top 10 pick (he seems to rely more on strength than technique). His effort and ability to be an elite LB has been questioned by NFL scouts. Oh, and he has an incurable, debilitating disease." -


Many thought the Broncos and Giants would take him as well.

The funny thing is had Al Davis drafted JPP, everyone would have laughed, saying typical Al Davis pick. If only... Sad


thats one thing i liked about al. still dont know why he picked rolo i didnt think he was fast enough for a top ten pick.


I still say MLB is not worth a top 10 pick Wink


Maybe in general.
But all of that is so overrated.

If you think you can draft a Ray Lewis, Patrick Willis, Steve Hutchinson... i.e. guys at lesser positions who turn out to be fantastic players, well then who really cares what the position is?

It's good to have a general set of rules in place, but if I knew the guy I was getting would be as successful as Patrick Willis, I wouldn't hesitate to burn the first pick in the draft on the guy.


I am not so worried about what position we pick next year. I'm more concerned that we finally hit on a pick, rather than blowing it as usual on a guy who doesn't make the team any better.

Let's look at our past first rounders and have a good cry.

McClain
Heyward Bey
McFadden
Russell
Huff
Washington
Gallery
Asomugha
Brayton
Buchanon
Harris
Gibson
Janikowski
Stinchcomb
Woodson
Collins
Russell
Dudley
Kaufman

Back to '95, since we moved to Oakland.

3 great players, only one of which we still have and the one we have is both struggling and injury prone in a short lived position. It's disgusting. From the new regime I'll take a guy at any position who pans out to be an impact player. I don't care if it's a Guard or a goddamn Fullback, as long as it's a All Pro guard or fullback. It's better than what we've done...
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