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ojmcduff


Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 176
Location: ct
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Free agents Reply with quote

Which free agents do you see in another jersey next year?
Long
Starks
Bush
Hartline
Clemons
Smith
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phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: South Carolina
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to see us replace Clemons first and foremost because there's really no case to be made for re-signing him no matter the cost or terms. He does very little if anything for us. We should draft his replacement if possible. Even maybe before we draft a WR.

Bush I believe we'll re-sign because of what he can add to the offense. For the next couple seasons we'll have to rely on being able to run the ball to some degree but quite frankly he's a guy who can mean the difference in 2 or 3 games a year and that's important for a developing team and coaching staff. While I don't anticipate Reggie consistently running for 100+ yards per game, there's no reason to think he wouldn't be worth resigning if we can get him for 3 years or less for decent money.

Hartline and Smith clearly need to be re-signed. Hartline is good enough and Smith simply isn't being out-played by any other option. Both are probably the best at their position right now and we are in a position which forces us to hold onto what we have. Even drafting at those two positions doesn't mean we can afford losing either of those guys.

Starks is very experienced and therefore age and health are concerns for a guy like him but Starks has thus far been nothing but reliable so I'd love to see us resign him to keep D-line's integrity intact.


If I knew how consistent Martin would be playing at RT, I would've probably traded Jake Long for whatever pick would allow us to find his replacement. Since that ship has sailed we either lose him and delay the future development of the Guard positions or we resign him and develop the rest of the line.

I love to resign Jake Long, even if just temporarily. He's providing great push in the run game and ample protection for Tannehill. As he gets more used to the system his performance will even out. We need to get better at both Guard positions more than we do at LT right now.

There's an entire portion of the play-book being held out because of our Guards. Jake Long might allow a sack now and again but he gives you what you need to perform as an offense and win games. Think about that.
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JCool333


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Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 12767
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As of right now, I'd let Clemons hit free agency and see if he ends up coming back for cheap anyway. Starks should definitely be brought back, as he's been a great presence inside and his price should be manageable based on Sollai's contract. No need to mess with that interior DL, as they've been great.

The rest are all tough calls. Smith is looking pretty good but CBs don't come cheap. Hartline and Bush may end up overvalued and Long is probably already a bit overvalued.

I could see all of those going either way and it depends on their asking prices.
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Kaiowas05


Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1132
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starks is only 28 while being an 8 year vet, i say keep the guy. Its looking more and more like tag and trade Jake, I hate to say, too expensive and has not transitioned well, but we shall see how the last 12 games play out.

Clemons should be gone unless he brings something special out but we are in a tough position as we really dont have a back up to groom there or at least have to spell a rookie. Maybe we get a Jones/Wilson pairing finally?

Hartline hopefully gets something similar to Bess' extension (about 3.5m a year) as hes shown to be RT's best option.

Fasano is a toughie as we have such limited options at TE, few of which can block when required but he isnt a weapon at all.

Bush should hopefully clock in at a decent price because he would be on his third contract, most RBs dont make it that far either. say 3.5-4.5mil a year?

Smith, we hold on to for dear life and cross our fingers for some sort of loyalty discount.
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Russ57


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 692
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First we need to have a realistic idea of the worth of a given position.

Starks is 28 and is better for our system than Solia. He is worth the 5-6 mill a year it will take to extend him.

Starting CB's are not cheap. Smith isn't great but he is better than many here think he is. Bite the bullet and extend him. Figure 6-7 mill a year range.

Hartline will be cheap for what he offers. Figure 3 mill range...maybe 4 if he keeps racking up the yards.

Bush is a tough one. His real value might be more in name recognition. The Dolphins can use that. I'd go no higher than 4 mill a year which means we probably don't keep him if he has another 1,000 yard healthy season.

You missed Fasano. We have no replacement for him and it isn't for lack of trying. Right he is our best TE and in a WCO you need a few good ones. I feel we have no choice if it can be done for around 2.5 mill a year.

I have no problem paying Long 50 mill over four years. I just wouldn't want to promise more than the franchise tag for next year. That could mean a sign and trade is our best option if we can find a partner. We really need to extend now or find a trade partner. To wait and franchise him is insane.

Clemons can walk. I'm already on record as saying a "game changing" FS would be worth a high draft pick to me.
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bpastermack


Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 13166
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think less about who we "should" keep and more about who we will be able to keep. I could see us losing Bush to some megadeal from another team. I think Clemmons will be back unless we sign a bigger name in Free Agency cause I don't see him costing that much. Our depth on the D-line might make it tough to bring back Starks if his price tag is too high. Although we have Soliai another year for cheap, so maybe we can wrap up Starks and let Soliai walk next year? Isn't Wake a Free Agent too?
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3riple3hreat


Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 154
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tough call on this. I go about it in reverse order, in terms of who I think we will keep. And of course by process of elimination who I see in another jersey.

Long - I hear a lot say he is not a nice fit in the offense and too expensive but I just can't see letting this guy go after so many productive years even with a new coaching staff.

Starks - Not enough to go on about this guy

Bush - If the price is right I see him staying, he has a chance to be the #1 back in this offense and the carries he wanted.

Hartline - Almost guranteed to be back. With the early succes he is having, unless the coaching has some hidden beef with him, he will be back

Clemons - I see in other colors

Smith - I think we will hold on to. Above average guy and does a decent job on bigger reliever. If you can hold Fitz to 65yards and a TD, I say you had a decent day
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Deets


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Location: Red Sox Nation
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long is the biggest question mark. A lot of people are bothered by his play lately and hes going to get a ton of money. I'm still against the idea of letting a guy like him go. We need continuity on the offensive line, not more turnover and hes a guy who leads the unit.

Smith and Hartline need to stay. I think Hartline will probably give us a bit of discount due to the fact that he has such great synergy with Tannehill. Smith is going to be a bit harder.

Bush is the hardest case. If we resign Long, Smith, and Hartline then its going to be tricky to pay him. We would need to get some kind of discount...which is possible since we were the team that offered him the chance to be an every down back like he always wanted. He also seems to like Miami a lot. Still hes going to be a very high profile free agent. We do have a similar player who could feasibly replace him next year in Miller but I'd rather not risk the running game. The other fear is that the Jets make sense as a suitor for him. Reallllllllllllly don't want to see Bush in puke green.

Starks is a good player. Someone might overpay. Someone might not. I'd rather keep him but hes lower priority then the guys above. If hes lost we can move Odrick to his spot and put more of a hardcore pass rusher on the outside (Vernon or a guy we draft). I could see him coming back at a very reasonable price.

Clemons. Hes average at best. I doubt anyone really wants him. He can stay or go, no one really cares.
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Maddogg


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its difficult at this time to project what value each player will have with us and most importantly other teams at this juncture in the season. Anyways pulling out my crystal ball here goes..........

Sean Smith - Wise move is to resign him now. The overall cost will be lower than waiting till after the season. If he ends up with double digit INT's his contract numbers soar. He needs to be resigned otherwise we are looking at replacing both cornerback slots Side note - kinda funny I messaged him he needed 2 INTs last week.

Jake Long - Flip a coin. Is he gone or does he stay? At least with Miami drafting Jonathen Martin this year the team does have options instead of being held hostage by an agents contract demands. I have to believe it comes down to numbers and that means no stratospheric raise.

Reggie Bush - He stays with a good raise. He fits the system. He performs well. This will be his last best contract. His performance with the Dolphins is a 180 from that with the Saints.

Brian Hartline - As with Bush he stays. The prototypical player for this type of WCO - intelligent, can run the routes, reads the defense to adjust and catches the ball. Its not important that he is not a player like Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald. He knows his role and does it extremely well. Side note - I hate to remind you all but I did post he was a sleeper fantasy pick this year.

Randy Starks - Probably gone. His performance this year will lead some team to throw numbers at him like he won the lottery. I would want to keep him but I have a bad feeling that matching an offer would put us in cap prison.

Chris Clemons - He stays. Certainly at this point in his career he is not an All-Pro caliber player at safety. He is steady and dependable. There is still an upside to him. Contract numbers are going to be reasonable. At the very least he would provide quality depth.
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TheKillerNacho


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 9759
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think trading Jake Long before the trade deadline is the best case scenario for us ATM. He doesn't fit our system and will cost too much to re-sign him. At the same time, I want to get something for him. Something a little more than a 3rd round compensatory pick.

I don't want to lose Reggie Bush but I don't want to throw him a bunch of money either. If he can be re-signed to a reasonable contract, keep him. Else, let him walk. I really like what I am seeing from Lamar Miller.

The only guys of the bunch I really want to make sure we hold onto are Brian Hartline and Sean Smith. I'd also like to re-sign Randy Starks but I don't want to spend big bucks on him, either. We have some depth at DT.
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ajiggel72


Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Posts: 168
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How come no one is recommending trading Sean Smith? Green Bay is in a Pass Happy division and in need of a strong press corner. We could net something similar to Vontae I'd think a 3rd and a 5th. I wouldnt trade Jake for anything less than a 1, possibly a 1, and a 4th. I think Philly could be a realistic option for him, as there main concern is protecting Vick at this point. Imagine if we trade both for the values I said earlier:

1)
1)
2)
2)
3)
3)
3)
4)
4)
5)
5)
6)
6)* Conditional
7)
7)

...... ammo.

Anyways....
Bush isn't looking for a huge payday- he will be resigned for something like 3 yrs 10 million - Hartline will be looking for 4-5 million a year I say do it, get it done now 4 yr 14.5 million. Build the WR corp. Smith is gone as far as I'm concerened. Love to have him back, but his hearts on the west coast. I see him in a S.D./Oakland uniform come next season. Starks and Fasano are wildcards. I think 1 will be brought back, one will be let go. Fasano coulf be brought back as the cheaper option.
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Warpticon


Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 1587
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajiggel72 wrote:
How come no one is recommending trading Sean Smith? Green Bay is in a Pass Happy division and in need of a strong press corner. We could net something similar to Vontae I'd think a 3rd and a 5th. I wouldnt trade Jake for anything less than a 1, possibly a 1, and a 4th. I think Philly could be a realistic option for him, as there main concern is protecting Vick at this point. Imagine if we trade both for the values I said earlier:

1)
1)
2)
2)
3)
3)
3)
4)
4)
5)
5)
6)
6)* Conditional
7)
7)

...... ammo.

Anyways....
Bush isn't looking for a huge payday- he will be resigned for something like 3 yrs 10 million - Hartline will be looking for 4-5 million a year I say do it, get it done now 4 yr 14.5 million. Build the WR corp. Smith is gone as far as I'm concerened. Love to have him back, but his hearts on the west coast. I see him in a S.D./Oakland uniform come next season. Starks and Fasano are wildcards. I think 1 will be brought back, one will be let go. Fasano coulf be brought back as the cheaper option.


Before I respond to this, I just want to make sure it wasn't intended as a joke...it was, right?
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ajiggel72


Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Posts: 168
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warpticon wrote:
ajiggel72 wrote:
How come no one is recommending trading Sean Smith? Green Bay is in a Pass Happy division and in need of a strong press corner. We could net something similar to Vontae I'd think a 3rd and a 5th. I wouldnt trade Jake for anything less than a 1, possibly a 1, and a 4th. I think Philly could be a realistic option for him, as there main concern is protecting Vick at this point. Imagine if we trade both for the values I said earlier:

1)
1)
2)
2)
3)
3)
3)
4)
4)
5)
5)
6)
6)* Conditional
7)
7)

...... ammo.

Anyways....
Bush isn't looking for a huge payday- he will be resigned for something like 3 yrs 10 million - Hartline will be looking for 4-5 million a year I say do it, get it done now 4 yr 14.5 million. Build the WR corp. Smith is gone as far as I'm concerened. Love to have him back, but his hearts on the west coast. I see him in a S.D./Oakland uniform come next season. Starks and Fasano are wildcards. I think 1 will be brought back, one will be let go. Fasano coulf be brought back as the cheaper option.


Before I respond to this, I just want to make sure it wasn't intended as a joke...it was, right?


It is not a joke. Here me out- I'm not saying trade,trade,trade. I'm saying if we do not think we can retain S.Smith next yr, his value is probally as high as it will ever be right now. Why not get what we can for him now, before he walks away for free?

As for trading Long... I love him as a player and value him as an elite player, but I also see him as a luxury. I know this is debateable but a team contending for the superbowl, who has o-line issues and an injury prone QB will pay high-dollar. Not to mention a head coach who is on the hot seat. A first and a 4th would provide cheaper, alternatives and allow money to be spent else where. That being said, I would not be against keeping long- it all depends on his salary demands. The fact we havent resigned him yet makes me think he is demanding a lot. He has already made a ton in Miami, if he is a true leader he will take a bit of a pay cut to stay with his team and I would be happy to have him.
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Warpticon


Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 1587
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajiggel72 wrote:
Warpticon wrote:
ajiggel72 wrote:
How come no one is recommending trading Sean Smith? Green Bay is in a Pass Happy division and in need of a strong press corner. We could net something similar to Vontae I'd think a 3rd and a 5th. I wouldnt trade Jake for anything less than a 1, possibly a 1, and a 4th. I think Philly could be a realistic option for him, as there main concern is protecting Vick at this point. Imagine if we trade both for the values I said earlier:

1)
1)
2)
2)
3)
3)
3)
4)
4)
5)
5)
6)
6)* Conditional
7)
7)

...... ammo.

Anyways....
Bush isn't looking for a huge payday- he will be resigned for something like 3 yrs 10 million - Hartline will be looking for 4-5 million a year I say do it, get it done now 4 yr 14.5 million. Build the WR corp. Smith is gone as far as I'm concerened. Love to have him back, but his hearts on the west coast. I see him in a S.D./Oakland uniform come next season. Starks and Fasano are wildcards. I think 1 will be brought back, one will be let go. Fasano coulf be brought back as the cheaper option.


Before I respond to this, I just want to make sure it wasn't intended as a joke...it was, right?


It is not a joke. Here me out- I'm not saying trade,trade,trade. I'm saying if we do not think we can retain S.Smith next yr, his value is probally as high as it will ever be right now. Why not get what we can for him now, before he walks away for free?

As for trading Long... I love him as a player and value him as an elite player, but I also see him as a luxury. I know this is debateable but a team contending for the superbowl, who has o-line issues and an injury prone QB will pay high-dollar. Not to mention a head coach who is on the hot seat. A first and a 4th would provide cheaper, alternatives and allow money to be spent else where. That being said, I would not be against keeping long- it all depends on his salary demands. The fact we havent resigned him yet makes me think he is demanding a lot. He has already made a ton in Miami, if he is a true leader he will take a bit of a pay cut to stay with his team and I would be happy to have him.


I asked if it was a joke because none of it makes any sense.

Trading Sean Smith? Why? How? He's an above average corner in a secondary that needs more above average players. He's a free agent after this season, so you won't get fair value for him anyway since there's no team control beyond this year. And mid-season football trades are rare as it is. Also, where on earth did you pull that "heart on the west coast" silliness from?

You are vastly overestimating the kind of return you would get for Long, considering it's midseason, he's a free agent after this year, and you'd be selling low since he hasn't had a great season so far. And then you would be leaving a gaping hole at left tackle on a team starting a rookie quarterback.

I have no idea what cavity you pulled "Bush isn't looking for a huge payday" from, but I can assure you, 10 million over 3 years would not get it done. That kind of offer is an insult. The man gives you the two best seasons of his career, and on what is likely his last big contract, you give him a 40% pay cut on a contract offer that is 2-3 times below market value? You might as well spit in his face at that point.

it seriously reads like you're just making up stuff to troll. I'm questioning myself for even responding even now.
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1947
Location: santa rosa california
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somebody above hit the nail on the head and what i have been thinking on randy starks, He is good and someone i like but with langford getting 4.5 mil starks he may get 5 or 5.5 and truth is Odrick needs to be inside and we could use that money for a pass rushing DE. No knock on starks whatsoever.
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