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Least Talented Team in Football?
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:


Cowboys and Redskins made a living off doing this.


They aren't exactly the standard for cap competence.

Quote:
Everyone always claimed they were in cap hell, yet they still always made moves....albeit usually poor ones.

The Jets cap situation may not look pretty, but they'll be just fine in that regard.

Its the bringing in talent itself which is the real mess, esepcially on offense.


They have quite a few bad contracts on the books and a whole lot of money tied up in the wrong players. They'll be fine if they can effectively bring in young, cheap talent but if not, they're going to stink for a good while.


My point was that the Cowboys and Redskins were always consdiered to be in cap hell and they still made the moves you are now acting like the Jets cant make.

And the 2nd part....thats much more of a ROSTER management issue than a cap management issue. Just as I said...the Jets inability to properly manage and assess talent is the issue...not so much effectively managing the cap. Even if what you say is true....even if they could afford to bring in new talent via FA or whatever....at the current rate they would just keep making the same mistakes over and over because they arent assessing talent well.

So again....while their cap isnt exactly pretty, its managable.

The reason they are in a mess right now, however, is not evaluating talent well....especially on offense.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:


Cowboys and Redskins made a living off doing this.


They aren't exactly the standard for cap competence.

Quote:
Everyone always claimed they were in cap hell, yet they still always made moves....albeit usually poor ones.

The Jets cap situation may not look pretty, but they'll be just fine in that regard.

Its the bringing in talent itself which is the real mess, esepcially on offense.


They have quite a few bad contracts on the books and a whole lot of money tied up in the wrong players. They'll be fine if they can effectively bring in young, cheap talent but if not, they're going to stink for a good while.


My point was that the Cowboys and Redskins were always consdiered to be in cap hell and they still made the moves you are now acting like the Jets cant make.

And the 2nd part....thats much more of a ROSTER management issue than a cap management issue. Just as I said...the Jets inability to properly manage and assess talent is the issue...not so much effectively managing the cap. Even if what you say is true....even if they could afford to bring in new talent via FA or whatever....at the current rate they would just keep making the same mistakes over and over because they arent assessing talent well.

So again....while their cap isnt exactly pretty, its managable.

The reason they are in a mess right now, however, is not evaluating talent well....especially on offense.


Yea, this argument isn't going anywhere. I don't agree with you at all on this.

I've never once argued that their player management and acquisitions isn't the current issue but the way they were spending money and getting under the cap is/was unsustainable. Tannenbaum, imo, has failed entirely as their GM.
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Sciz


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both Sanchez and Holmes have their salary guaranteed next season. Enough said.
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green24


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
green24 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
I agree. And he's not exactly been good for their cap either.

Huh?

There are Jets fans arguing that Tannenbaum should be fired because the ONLY thing he does well is manage the cap. In fact, some fans have nicknamed him the "General Accountant" because of that.


I heard the same argument during the last off-season and it didn't do anything for me. Tannenbaum continually pushing money into future years and giving out all this money to aging vets had put the Jets in an unsustainable cap situation which has helped create the mess they are currently in and has a few bad contracts currently on their book.


After cutting Bart Scott, Calvin Pace, and Jason Smith, the Jets will be more than $24 million under the cap including the leftover money carried over from the past offseason. Once you factor in cutting/trading Eric Smith and Tim Tebow, that number reaches $30 million. Not exactly what I would call a mess.

Plus, they will have a lot more money after the 2013 season, when Santonio Holmes and Mark Sanchez can be cut. Those two moves would save the team around $10 million.
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Warpticon


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People still saying Miami? Outside of the secondary and the receiver positions, where do the Dolphins have below average talent?
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Nzd07


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warpticon wrote:
People still saying Miami? Outside of the secondary and the receiver positions, where do the Dolphins have below average talent?


I wouldn't exactly call Tannehill an average QB...

I think Miami is bottom, 5 but not worst. I'd say it's either Oakland or Indianapolis, probably leaning towards the Colts.
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Warpticon


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nzd07 wrote:
Warpticon wrote:
People still saying Miami? Outside of the secondary and the receiver positions, where do the Dolphins have below average talent?


I wouldn't exactly call Tannehill an average QB...

I think Miami is bottom, 5 but not worst. I'd say it's either Oakland or Indianapolis, probably leaning towards the Colts.


Tannehill hasn't put up average production in his first 4 NFL games yet, no. Production != talent. What exactly are we talking about here?
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Nzd07


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warpticon wrote:
Nzd07 wrote:
Warpticon wrote:
People still saying Miami? Outside of the secondary and the receiver positions, where do the Dolphins have below average talent?


I wouldn't exactly call Tannehill an average QB...

I think Miami is bottom, 5 but not worst. I'd say it's either Oakland or Indianapolis, probably leaning towards the Colts.


Tannehill hasn't put up average production in his first 4 NFL games yet, no. Production != talent. What exactly are we talking about here?


Wouldn't call him a top 16 talent either.
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Warpticon


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nzd07 wrote:
Warpticon wrote:
Nzd07 wrote:
Warpticon wrote:
People still saying Miami? Outside of the secondary and the receiver positions, where do the Dolphins have below average talent?


I wouldn't exactly call Tannehill an average QB...

I think Miami is bottom, 5 but not worst. I'd say it's either Oakland or Indianapolis, probably leaning towards the Colts.


Tannehill hasn't put up average production in his first 4 NFL games yet, no. Production != talent. What exactly are we talking about here?


Wouldn't call him a top 16 talent either.


We'll see. I'm pretty sure Matt Moore is well above average for backups, though. And that still leaves the rest of the team, where they're better and deeper than most in the defensive front 7, at least average on the o line, and deeper and better than most at RB.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure it's the Chiefs
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's the Chiefs

If this were the "worst team" thread then I'd argue that it could be the Chiefs (I'll wait until after we play them before I make any such argument though Laughing) But as far as talent, the Chiefs do have a good amount of talent. They have Jamaal Charles, who is a top RB in this league. They have a great stable of backup RBs. They have some talent along the OL. They have IMO a top 10 WR in Bowe. Everyone knows that Baldwin has talent, he's simply a headcase and needs to utilize his talent to reach his potential.

On the defensive side of the ball you have two dynamic pass rushing options, a DL with talent. The defensive backfield has a safety who has yet to return to form, but once he does is one of the best. The corners have played at a high level at one point or another in their careers.

So really it seems that the Chiefs issue is coaching and durability to this point. Not that they're simply outmatched in the talent department. If they get a QB and improve their coaching, they could actually (finally) live up to some of the preseason hype they tend to generate every year.
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OneBadCat


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:33 am    Post subject: Re: Least Talented Team in Football? Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
I think it's Carolina. They have talent at Running Back and Quarterback, some marginally on the offensive line, and Steve Smith, but not a whole lot elsewhere.

alfalcone wrote:
Just out of curiosity, which team do you guys think has the least talent in the NFL. The obvious nominees would be the Jets, Browns, Raiders, Jaguars, and Rams, though the Panther on Defense, and the Lions outside of the big three have noticeable weaknesses. I'd probably go with the Jets, though watching the Browns Ravens game it occurred to me that only three players on Cleveland, Thomas, Mack & Haden would start for Baltimore.


I'm pretty sure Ahtyba Rubin would start for Baltimore. One could make an argument for players at the DE(opposite Ngata) and ILB(opposite Lewis) positions as well.


Beason, Davis, Anderson, Keuchly- Can and will be among the top 5/10 at their position.

Chris Gamble is one of the leagues best corners. Charles Johnson is one of the best 4-3 DE in the game. Olsen is a top 10 TE.


The problem is that the Panthers don't have the talent where they need it to impact games. The defense could be so much more successful with a top talent at DT. Free Safety is also hurting at the moment.

DT and FS need to be addressed with some great talent, but aside from that the Panthers are actually a pretty talented team.

I'll give you that we don't have any first round talent at WR. But Brandon Lafell is coming along and there are a few burners with potential on the team like Louis Murphy and David Gettis.
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bungleodeon


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's hard to say with young talent. Young talent could blossom, or it could crash and burn. I'd have to put 4 teams in a group at the bottom, those 4 teams being:

Indianapolis - they are in the middle of rebuilding, they need another offseason to get a better mix of young guys and vets. Of all the teams I will list, I think Indi has the best chance of making a big turn around in one offseason.

Oakland - They've got a lot of issues on the defensive side of the ball. On offense, they have an aging QB that will need replaced soon. I like their HB and a few of their young WR's, but I think their O-line could use some serious improvements.

Cleveland - So many rookies and 2nd year players. They could very well be one of the most talented teams in the league, they just don't have the experience, therefore, they don't have the wins to prove it. Right now, it's impossible to not include Cleveland at the bottom. People keep saying the Rams are a younger team, but the Browns have the youngest starting 22 and certainly the least experienced starting 22 in the league.

Jacksonville - They've got a few nice pieces in place, they just also have a whole lot of replaceable players. I can't think of another team that has 9-10 starters that should be replaced without giving those players any further opportunities. Jacksonville NEEDS Gabbert to pan out as a good QB and Blackmon to be a long term solution as a big time play maker. If not, if these guys are even above average but not great, they are in a pretty big hole.
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91jmay


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I ask anyone who has said the Raiders struggle with there GM, what is that based on? One year where he had no draft picks until the 3rd round and a very tight cap situation. That seems a ridiculous period to judge him on.
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's the Chiefs

If this were the "worst team" thread then I'd argue that it could be the Chiefs (I'll wait until after we play them before I make any such argument though Laughing) But as far as talent, the Chiefs do have a good amount of talent. They have Jamaal Charles, who is a top RB in this league. They have a great stable of backup RBs. They have some talent along the OL. They have IMO a top 10 WR in Bowe. Everyone knows that Baldwin has talent, he's simply a headcase and needs to utilize his talent to reach his potential.

On the defensive side of the ball you have two dynamic pass rushing options, a DL with talent. The defensive backfield has a safety who has yet to return to form, but once he does is one of the best. The corners have played at a high level at one point or another in their careers.

So really it seems that the Chiefs issue is coaching and durability to this point. Not that they're simply outmatched in the talent department. If they get a QB and improve their coaching, they could actually (finally) live up to some of the preseason hype they tend to generate every year.


Thanks...that's all I needed to hear. A neutral endorsement of the talent. I just don't believe the other Chief threads would have as many visitors as they do if people weren't jealous/praiseworthy of what we could have with better coaching/qb play. If I thot another team was truly overrating their talent, I'd laugh and leave it alone. Chief threads don't get ignored, that's for sure.

Only thing I would add is Baldwin isn't a headcase, he worked hard this offseason, was dominant in TC, and has played well on the field this year. However there are a limited number balls to WR's with #7 behind center and most of them still go to Bowe. Atleast one Charger fan agreed he was open, Cassel just couldn't find him. He's still on pace for 700 yards, getting less than 4 targets a game. 10 catches in 15 targets.
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