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SilverNBlackFan
Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 5574
Location: R.I.P Al Davis 1929-2011
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 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| If we draft QB, Geno Smith is the only QB I'd want in this drafy class. Barkley doesn't wow me. He's very good but he has Maybe the best supporting cast in the country. I watch a lot of their games and you rarely see him throw down the field. I don't see huge upside in him. Recent USC QB struggled won't help him either. |
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ZoomWaffle
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4567
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| reddevil wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | JTagg7754 wrote: | | Defense first b/c.... well, WE DON'T HAVE ONE. Geno Smith is overrated and doesn't play defense. No thanks. |
Why is Geno overrated? Because he through 8 TDs last week? I mean the guy has always shown great skill for the position.
My draft board would look like this:
Premier passrusher
Trade down
Franchise QB
If I can't land a top flight, day 1 impact pass rusher w/ the pick. I look to trade back and add a second tier pass rusher or top flight CB. If no trade value comes my way, I take the franchise QB.
End of the day, you have to have a franchise QB to win consistently, so it's not the worst idea. |
I really like that draft strategy. |
Me too. That is the precise order I would like us to go. Assuming we are picking early - if there is a blue chip pass-rusher, take him regardless of our depth issues. If he ain't there, trade back and get an upgrade at CB, LB D-Line or O-Line and get more picks for depth. If the trade doesn't happen then take a QB if he fits the bill rather than reaching for a need and spending a high pick on a position that doesn't warrant it. |
+1
I'm a huge fan of trading back if there is someone you like that isnt worth your current pick. You avoid reaching as much and get extra picks.
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| La_Vader wrote: | | I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that |
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ZoomWaffle
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4567
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| SilverNBlackFan wrote: | | If we draft QB, Geno Smith is the only QB I'd want in this drafy class. Barkley doesn't wow me. He's very good but he has Maybe the best supporting cast in the country. I watch a lot of their games and you rarely see him throw down the field. I don't see huge upside in him. Recent USC QB struggled won't help him either. |
Perfect for Greg Knapp-time's offense.
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Silver&Black88 on the sig
| La_Vader wrote: | | I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that |
Last edited by ZoomWaffle on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 19018
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Chali21 wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | | holyghost wrote: | | Dcreek wrote: | | Matt Barkley isn't the most physically gifted QB but his accuracy and work ethic can't be over looked. He is a leader and is pro ready. |
Tom Brady was beanpole coming out, Peyton doesnt have the greatest arm in the league and never did, Brees was too short, Rodgers sat for 4 years, Rivers has a bad throwing motion and can barely move.
Point is, accuracy, work ethic, pro ready mean alot. ALOT.. I haven't watched any of the QBs coming out so I can't say anything from having seen with my own eyes.
But if it came down to it, I'd rather the guy with a chance at being a killer passer than the athletic freak 10 times out of 10. Killer passers win SBs, freaks win games and fan love. |
+1
I've been saying for a long time that I want a smart, accurate QB- not a rocket-armed, fast QB who struggles reading a defense and has accuracy issues. I dont know jack about Barkley, but if he is smart and accurate, plays in a pro offense, etc then I really like that. Its nice to have a guy with mobility or that can run a 4.4 40, but I want a guy who we can always count on to read the defense, make accurate throws, and make smart, meaningful plays. |
Barkley has a lot of good pieces around him. And because of that I feel he should be better. Watching him play I don't see that gamer. He manages it to me. Honestly I think Hes going to be another Brady Quinn. |
His Oline is pretty pathetic tbh.
Having a hard time w/ Barkely. He's shown out numerous times. This season, his Oline is suspect. He gets a lot of pressure. Kalil is no longer on that Oline and that's be apparent.
I still think Barkley is the top QB. He's smart, athletic, 4 year starter. In a WCO, he could really excel.
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 19018
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| SilverNBlackFan wrote: | | If we draft QB, Geno Smith is the only QB I'd want in this drafy class. Barkley doesn't wow me. He's very good but he has Maybe the best supporting cast in the country. I watch a lot of their games and you rarely see him throw down the field. I don't see huge upside in him. Recent USC QB struggled won't help him either. |
Don't sleep on this. This is the same thing that was said for years regarding Tedford's Cal QBs.
Teams then slept on some guy named Rodgers.
I hope teams sleep on Barkley and the Raiders can trade down, add picks and nab him.
Also.... it's freaking sad we are this into draft talk and it's Oct. 3rd. F YOU KNAPP!!
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ZoomWaffle
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4567
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | SilverNBlackFan wrote: | | If we draft QB, Geno Smith is the only QB I'd want in this drafy class. Barkley doesn't wow me. He's very good but he has Maybe the best supporting cast in the country. I watch a lot of their games and you rarely see him throw down the field. I don't see huge upside in him. Recent USC QB struggled won't help him either. |
Don't sleep on this. This is the same thing that was said for years regarding Tedford's Cal QBs.
Teams then slept on some guy named Rodgers.
I hope teams sleep on Barkley and the Raiders can trade down, add picks and nab him.
Also.... it's freaking sad we are this into draft talk and it's Oct. 3rd. F YOU KNAPP!! |
True. Does USC have the same QB coach and/or OC they had with Leinart, John David Booty, Sanchez? I'm gonna guess not. Now, if they were all coached by the same guys and they all flopped in the NFL, there would be a strong case against drafting a QB from that school, otherwise I don't see a correlation just because they all wore the same uniform.
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| La_Vader wrote: | | I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that |
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FootballProdiG
Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Posts: 3711
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Bo_Spice wrote: | You do have a point that the new regime needs to bring in a young player that can be the face of the franchise moving forward but with all of our glaring needs on the defensive side of the ball I don't think we should spend an early pick on a quarterback.
Despite our lack of an offensive line, running game, and depleted receiving core, Palmer has still been solid and has pretty much been the only bright spot for our offense this season. I don't think very many quarterbacks in the NFL could play as well as he has considering our line can't block, we literally have no running game, and our offensive coordinator couldn't create an effective offensive game plan to save his family. A young rookie quarterback isn't going to help us for a couple of years and would more than likely bust if he played anytime soon considering the fact our offense around him would be terrible. I could see us making a move for a young quarterback early if he were a can't miss prospect like Andrew Luck but unfortunately there isn't a guy like that in this years class.
We have three sacks and zero interceptions this season through four games, that's absoultely pathetic considering a player like J.J. Watt has two times as many sacks as our entire defense combined.
The front office needs to improve our secondary and our pass rush this season before we begin to address anything else because if we don't we'll continue to be terrible.
Drafting a guy like Jarvis Jones, Dee Milliner, Keke Mingo, or Sam Montgomery would be much more beneficial for the team in the long run than drafting a developmental quarterback to sit behind Palmer who's already really solid. |
I agree with this. Even though I posted a different opinion, I completely agree.
However, I feel like Carson needs to be teaching rather than playing at this point. He is a great player( the best player on the Raiders right now), and would make an excellent backup. But the Raiders NEED a franchise QB. The defense has no excuse, we need to pick up picks for them NOW. But the offense is lacking mainly because there hasn't been a Franchise QB playing for the team to build that yearly momentum in god knows how long. If it's not ____ it's ____, then it's Palmer, and then Palmer gets injured and now it's someone else. They need to stop trading and start picking.
If someone like Geno or Barkley is able to play on the team for a few years, I'm sure the offensive capabilities would increase dramatically. Due to all the players being used to playing with each other and what not. |
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CrashMan510
Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 2699
Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Here mine...
1. Jarvis Jones
2. Geno Smith
3. Trade down and try to get a 2nd round pick
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Burgesskills
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:30 am Post subject: |
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If any of you think Smith is all hype, you're certainly confused. This is kid is now and will be better than Newton and RG3. He can make any throw, showed that against Baylor.
Yes he put loft on some of his balls, lofted them right into his targeted WR's hands. There was some tight coverage during that game and some double coverage, but there is no defending a perfect pass. He threw out routs on a rope, he threw back shoulder passes, he fired deep bombs on the money. He has a quick release, he doesn't rely on his legs, but is quick and can move around.
The biggest think like Palooka said he is so competitive and wants to win. He is a film junkie and gym freak. He is very smart too and can read defenses. The 650 yards and 8 TD's were impressive, but most of all was the 46 of 51 passing. Baylor doesn't have a great D, but 46-51 with 11 defenders on the field is very impressive. He reminds of Rich Gannon with a stronger arm.
I would be ecstatic to get him. We do need a franchise QB that can be a leader for years and a Geno Smith doesn't come around too often. He had a great season last year and is building off of it. He will prove it this week against Texas.
We do need to build our defense, but to land him in the draft would be huge. |
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Burgesskills
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
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Bo_Spice
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 7076
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:40 am Post subject: |
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Is a rookie Geno Smith with our current offensive problems going to be better than Carson Palmer? No. Is he going to improve our pass rush or our secondary? No. Is he a can't miss prospect quarterback prospect? No.
If we use our first round pick on a young developmental quarterback prospect I will lose all faith in our new regime. We need to address our non-existent pass rush and terrible secondary before we bring in a player that's not going to even step on the field for a minimum of one or two years.
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91jmay
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 20636
Location: Wonderland
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:46 am Post subject: |
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Where has this myth that Matt Barkley is super accurate come from? Mechanical issues have him throwing off the back foot to much and cause lots of passes to sail.
Out of that list I'd take Geno Smith, was a top 15 pick before this season and is moving his stock up by the game. Great deep ball, pure pocket passer with enough athleticism to extend the play (don't like 'other' factors blind you, he is Rodgers type athleticism before he is Vick/Newton). His best feature is his intelligence, work ethic and leadership though. Scouts who have spoken to him rave about the way he interviews.
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| baconrad3 wrote: | | You mean Matt Stafford aka Stat Padford? |
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JTagg7754
Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7218
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Bo_Spice wrote: |
Is a rookie Geno Smith with our current offensive problems going to be better than Carson Palmer? No. Is he going to improve our pass rush or our secondary? No. Is he a can't miss prospect quarterback prospect? No.
If we use our first round pick on a young developmental quarterback prospect I will lose all faith in our new regime. We need to address our non-existent pass rush and terrible secondary before we bring in a player that's not going to even step on the field for a minimum of one or two years. |
I agree w/ this. Palmer >>>> Smith for the short term. There will be QB's in 2014 and 2015 and they will be good, if not better prospects than Smith.
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: |
you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs? |
not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them |
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Chali21
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 1707
Location: Cali
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Bo_Spice wrote: |
Is a rookie Geno Smith with our current offensive problems going to be better than Carson Palmer? No. Is he going to improve our pass rush or our secondary? No. Is he a can't miss prospect quarterback prospect? No.
If we use our first round pick on a young developmental quarterback prospect I will lose all faith in our new regime. We need to address our non-existent pass rush and terrible secondary before we bring in a player that's not going to even step on the field for a minimum of one or two years. |
I agree we need a pass rusher and a DB before we draft a QB. If however we get those in free agency or through trades I won't have a problem with Geno Smith. |
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 19018
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| Bo_Spice wrote: |
Is a rookie Geno Smith with our current offensive problems going to be better than Carson Palmer? No. Is he going to improve our pass rush or our secondary? No. Is he a can't miss prospect quarterback prospect? No.
If we use our first round pick on a young developmental quarterback prospect I will lose all faith in our new regime. We need to address our non-existent pass rush and terrible secondary before we bring in a player that's not going to even step on the field for a minimum of one or two years. |
There are more ways to build the defense. FA, trade, draft picks.
In the NFL, the teams with franchise QBs are the ones that win year in and out. You have to have that guy to win consistently in the NFL.
If the Raiders drafted that guy, it's a step in the right direction. But the defense will need to be addressed as well.
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