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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 25771
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

X_Factor_40 wrote:
skatebeanz wrote:
I found a very disturbing journal entry in my notebook I got out of the storage room. It was my sister's notebook while she worked here.

On a random page it is dated and says:

11/17 "Daily Journal".

Quote:
Anniversary and UltraSound.

I got smacked in the face in the parking lot at the Drs because I had the wrong appointment time. Said "God, please don't let there be a heart beat". Told me he wished I was dead and the baby was dead so he'd have no ties to me at all.
Caught him with bubble in his back pocket. When I started crying, he picked up a handful of my plant and dirt and threw it at my face. On (?) first (?) he threw some food at me from my plate.
Also at Drs he told me that he now knows why "All my baby's daddies" left me. That I was a disgusting fat cow, and a worthless whore and he didn't wanna be with me.


That was written I assume when she was about 6 months pregnant with her BFs kid (my nephew). That was about 3 years ago. This is the sister you guys know about.

Now I didn't know what "bubble" was referring to and I still don't. I guess there is a drug Mephradrone which is known as "bubble", and a bubble can refer to a broken lightbulb or glass piece designed to smoke crank with. She moved to Nebraska with him 2 years ago or so. She is supposedly marrying him next year. Should I show my dad? What do I do? The guy is trash.


Share it with your dad and make an attempt to step in and make your opinion well known. It's better to intervene now than have her stuck in a bad situation forever or settle because she feels trapped. If something is wrong she'll need the full support of her family and need to know that you stand behind her in any decision she makes going forward. No one should be subjected to that type of treatment from someone who they plan to spend the rest of their lives with. It's a disaster waiting to happen if it hasn't already.

This, absolutely.

At the same time, be prepared for a backlash. She will likely get defensive and hate you for it, but it needs to be done.
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FootballPhreak


Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 35224
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ManeLine wrote:
There's so much that goes into stolen bases and I think people are overrating it to an extent. The face value of SB numbers don't tell you if the catcher got a bad grip on the ball or if he has trouble exchanging from the glove to his hand. It doesn't tell you if the pitcher is good at checking the runners/if the pitcher has a quicker/slower delivery to the plate. All those things factor into SB.

The only thing SBs does is add to your total bases total. So the 45 SBs are AWESOME. But....last I saw he still had about 60 total bases less than Miggy. So all the SBs did was take him from over 100 behind, to 60 behind. Miggy got those bases by just being a flat better pure hitter (for now, watch out world if Trout develops further)
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If that doesn't concern you, I don't know what would...a missing head?
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The Lurker


Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 438
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
ManeLine wrote:
There's so much that goes into stolen bases and I think people are overrating it to an extent. The face value of SB numbers don't tell you if the catcher got a bad grip on the ball or if he has trouble exchanging from the glove to his hand. It doesn't tell you if the pitcher is good at checking the runners/if the pitcher has a quicker/slower delivery to the plate. All those things factor into SB.

The only thing SBs does is add to your total bases total. So the 45 SBs are AWESOME. But....last I saw he still had about 60 total bases less than Miggy. So all the SBs did was take him from over 100 behind, to 60 behind. Miggy got those bases by just being a flat better pure hitter (for now, watch out world if Trout develops further)


Stolen bases actually aren't part of the total bases calculation. If you were to factor in SB's, Cabrera would have a lead of 20 going into today's games. Cabrera has about 13 games worth of additional AB's though over Trout.
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Sllim Pickens


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Joined: 02 Jan 2007
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Location: Middle of the Mitten
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
X_Factor_40 wrote:
skatebeanz wrote:
I found a very disturbing journal entry in my notebook I got out of the storage room. It was my sister's notebook while she worked here.

On a random page it is dated and says:

11/17 "Daily Journal".

Quote:
Anniversary and UltraSound.

I got smacked in the face in the parking lot at the Drs because I had the wrong appointment time. Said "God, please don't let there be a heart beat". Told me he wished I was dead and the baby was dead so he'd have no ties to me at all.
Caught him with bubble in his back pocket. When I started crying, he picked up a handful of my plant and dirt and threw it at my face. On (?) first (?) he threw some food at me from my plate.
Also at Drs he told me that he now knows why "All my baby's daddies" left me. That I was a disgusting fat cow, and a worthless whore and he didn't wanna be with me.


That was written I assume when she was about 6 months pregnant with her BFs kid (my nephew). That was about 3 years ago. This is the sister you guys know about.

Now I didn't know what "bubble" was referring to and I still don't. I guess there is a drug Mephradrone which is known as "bubble", and a bubble can refer to a broken lightbulb or glass piece designed to smoke crank with. She moved to Nebraska with him 2 years ago or so. She is supposedly marrying him next year. Should I show my dad? What do I do? The guy is trash.


Share it with your dad and make an attempt to step in and make your opinion well known. It's better to intervene now than have her stuck in a bad situation forever or settle because she feels trapped. If something is wrong she'll need the full support of her family and need to know that you stand behind her in any decision she makes going forward. No one should be subjected to that type of treatment from someone who they plan to spend the rest of their lives with. It's a disaster waiting to happen if it hasn't already.

This, absolutely.

At the same time, be prepared for a backlash. She will likely get defensive and hate you for it, but it needs to be done.


This will happen. She will likely act like it never happened or claim it dosnt happen now. She likely will tell you to mind your own business and leave her alone. My sister was in a similar relationship and our constant rejection of him pushed her further away from us and towards him. Eventually she was not in contact with the family for a while. It's hard to deal with, but remain positive with her, don't talk negative about him, just remind her she is a good person who deserves the best and you guys will always be there for her. Don't try to jump in like superman and save the day.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 49461
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah I freaking hate the statement of triple crown means less because RBI overvalued. Floating around all over Internet.

It's not like Cabrera played with an All Star roster
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SadLionFan00


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 14342
Location: Michigan State University
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:


It's interesting that you don't value the rarest accomplishment in baseball in the MVP discussion. It's actually quite incredible.


Its a rare coincidence. Its not a great accomplishment. Again, I ask, if Josh Hamilton hits two HRs today and Miguel hits none, and he doesnt win the triple crown, is his season any worse? No.

Winning the triple crown factors in opponents play. That, and it is only a hitting statistic.

Quote:
Instead I must assume your someone who puts faith in some stat that isn't even the result on an agreed upon equation.


No. I look at WAR, but dont value it. Chase Headly has a higher WAR than Cabby, but, to me, Cabby is the better and more valueable player.

Quote:
In 1933 Chuck Klein had the triple crown but lost the MVP to pitcher Carl Hubbel who was 23-12 ERA 1.66. Kleins team finished last while Hubbel's team won the NL pennant.


Whether or not a team gets into the playoffs does not determine who the best player is. To me Best player is the MVP. The flawed voting in the past should not affect the voting now.

Quote:
In 42 and 47 Ted Williams won the triple crown but its been pretty well documented he didn't win the MVP because he didn't like the media. Williams lead the league by a wide margin in every offensive category.


K? Not sure what youre getting at.

Quote:
You discount Cabrera claiming players around him helped his stats but why don't you be consistent in that thought process. The Angels as a team rate higher than Detroit in almost every offensive category so from my perspective Trout gets more help from team mates than Cabrera.


No I dont. I discount the triple crown because it is based on the fact that Miguel happened to lead the league in HRs. His individual season is not any more or less valueable based on how other players do.

Quote:
If we look at base stealing which is part of your argument the Angels team is more dependant on stealing while Leyland rarely calls for a steal. The Angels were third in stolen bases while the Tigers were dead last.


Cuz we have no speed. If Trout was on this team, I guarentee he would have a similar amount of steals.

Quote:
A good part of successful base stealing is an effective hitter at the plate. A hitter knowing when to foul a pitch off to protect the runner is as important as the runner himself. Trout scored 20 more runs which was a stat certainly helped by those following him in the batting order. Their ability to advance the runner is a great aid to Trout.


In the same way Cabrera having almost 40% (IIRC) of his at bats with runners on base.

Quote:
You seem to also be ignoring Trouts strike out numbers as well. 139k's in 556 plate appearances isn't exactly great is it.


No, its not great. This is one of the factors that makes Cabrera the better hitter this year.

Quote:
Ahoda posted a very good article from a sabre metrics dude and he certainly recognizes the accomplishments of Cabrerra.


Miguel has had an awesome year, I wont deny that.

Quote:
As for team accomplishment it wouldn't have mattered if Trout played this year. His team isn't in the playoff's. The same cant be said for Cabrera. Had he not played the Tigers wouldn't be in the post season.


The Angels had the better record. Are we discounting Trout's value because he plays in a superior division?

Quote:
So I strongly disagree with your position but I could respect it if you were consistent in discounting both players team mates and didnt simply dismiss Cabrera's achievements suggesting they don't matter in the MVP discussion.
Batting average, power numbers, home runs, RBI's, Slugging % are all important numbers. It just seems any stat where Cabrera is ahead of Trout you conveniently suggest those stats aren't as important.


Ive mentioned many times that Cabrera has been better at the plate. Im not discounting his stats at all. Hes had a great year at the plate, but so has Trout, though not to the extent of Miguel. However, Trout adds so much value with his amazing defense and ability on the basepads.

I havent suggested any stats arent important. Im saying winning the Triple Crown shouldnt be an argument that Cabby should win the MVP. Because with that logic, if Adam Dunn or Josh Hamilton happens to run into a few today, the suddenly his season becomes less valuable? No. Im looking at two players statistics on the three aspects of the game. Hitting, Baserunning, Defense. Hitting is obviously the most important, but we cant throw away defense and baserunning.

Also, Mike Trout is having a historical season more rare then Cabrera's. 30 HR/45 SB cannot be discounted at all. Hell, he's one away from 30/50. I think thats happened like two times before. And thats a stat that doesnt reference what other players have done this year.

Lastly, consider total bases. Miguel has 377, Trout has 312. This does not include stolen bases. Trout is 65 behind, playing less games, and has stolen 49 bases. That is damn impressive.

So Cabrera wins the better hitter title. No question. But Trout doesnt just win on defense and base-running, he blows Cabrera away.


To sum up, IMO, Trout has been the better all-around baseball player this year, and therefor, IMO, deserves MVP. No Sabermetrics here.


You simply aren't giving any respect to his performance. Forget the title triple crown. It's an amazing accomplishment to lead in any statistical category in any professional sport. To suggests its simply a coincidence is simply wrong.

To lead in numerous categories is not coincidence it's rare because its extremely hard to do.

I thought this was simplistic and accurate

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8444629

In your view of Trout how do you determine he is good at stealing bases? Is it not comparison based? How do you determine his fielding is good? Is it not by comparing his errors against other position players and their errors? Is it not comparing his abilities to throw out a player more often than others?

The whole concept of keeping statistics is for comparison. Are trouts numbers simply coincidence or are they accomplishments?

I won't touch on Trouts performance for August and September. He's a good player but all things considered I just don't see him as MVP.


What? Ive said many times that Miguel has had an amazing year. Probably his best. But, what Trout has done in all aspects this year has been nothing short of amazing. While both have had simply amazing years, Trout, IMO, has been better.

If you want to argue what the MVP means, then fine. Thats an argument of semantics. But, to me, Trout has been the superior baseball player this year. Im giving all respect due to Miguel Cabrera, me saying that Trout should win the MVP this year does not mean Im not giving Miguel's performance.

And Trout's numbers are definitely not coincidence. He was the #1 prospect in baseball for a reason. He has the best physical tools we've seen in a long long time.

Quote:
In your view of Trout how do you determine he is good at stealing bases? Is it not comparison based? How do you determine his fielding is good? Is it not by comparing his errors against other position players and their errors? Is it not comparing his abilities to throw out a player more often than others?


Look at the numbers. 50 SB, and has only been thrown out a couple of times. He is one of the fastest players in baseball. He is Hell for the opposing team on the basepads.

And the numbers back up his defense. His UZR (which is a good fielding statistic, definitely the most accurate) is 13.3, which is beyond ridiculous. That coming from CF, one of if not the most important defensive positions outside of SS.
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Trestman is a great coach but Cutler is already a pouty overconfident poo flinger. What more can he do with him?
Get him to fling poo more accurately and make better decisions when flinging it?
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SadLionFan00


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 14342
Location: Michigan State University
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
Ah I freaking hate the statement of triple crown means less because RBI overvalued. Floating around all over Internet.

It's not like Cabrera played with an All Star roster


Not discounting RBIs (though I am not a huge fan of the stat). My argument is and has been, what if a player hit 50 HRs? Or had a .350 BA? Is his season any less good? No.

The Triple Crown is a nice feat, and hasnt been done in a long while, but thats not to say Cabrera has had the best offensive season since 1967.
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Silver&Black88 wrote:
Quote:
Trestman is a great coach but Cutler is already a pouty overconfident poo flinger. What more can he do with him?
Get him to fling poo more accurately and make better decisions when flinging it?
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 49461
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SadLionFan00 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Ah I freaking hate the statement of triple crown means less because RBI overvalued. Floating around all over Internet.

It's not like Cabrera played with an All Star roster


Not discounting RBIs (though I am not a huge fan of the stat). My argument is and has been, what if a player hit 50 HRs? Or had a .350 BA? Is his season any less good? No.

The Triple Crown is a nice feat, and hasnt been done in a long while, but thats not to say Cabrera has had the best offensive season since 1967.


Winning the triple crown is the best offensive season u can have
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SadLionFan00


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Ah I freaking hate the statement of triple crown means less because RBI overvalued. Floating around all over Internet.

It's not like Cabrera played with an All Star roster


Not discounting RBIs (though I am not a huge fan of the stat). My argument is and has been, what if a player hit 50 HRs? Or had a .350 BA? Is his season any less good? No.

The Triple Crown is a nice feat, and hasnt been done in a long while, but thats not to say Cabrera has had the best offensive season since 1967.


Winning the triple crown is the best offensive season u can have


Well thats just not correct.

Take Barry Bonds' record breaking 73 HR season. He didnt win the Triple Crown, does that mean Cabrera's season this year was better?

No.
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Silver&Black88 wrote:
Quote:
Trestman is a great coach but Cutler is already a pouty overconfident poo flinger. What more can he do with him?
Get him to fling poo more accurately and make better decisions when flinging it?
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 49461
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SadLionFan00 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Ah I freaking hate the statement of triple crown means less because RBI overvalued. Floating around all over Internet.

It's not like Cabrera played with an All Star roster


Not discounting RBIs (though I am not a huge fan of the stat). My argument is and has been, what if a player hit 50 HRs? Or had a .350 BA? Is his season any less good? No.

The Triple Crown is a nice feat, and hasnt been done in a long while, but thats not to say Cabrera has had the best offensive season since 1967.


Winning the triple crown is the best offensive season u can have


Well thats just not correct.

Take Barry Bonds' record breaking 73 HR season. He didnt win the Triple Crown, does that mean Cabrera's season this year was better?

No.


Yes his all around offensive year was better.
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1King


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Ah I freaking hate the statement of triple crown means less because RBI overvalued. Floating around all over Internet.

It's not like Cabrera played with an All Star roster


Not discounting RBIs (though I am not a huge fan of the stat). My argument is and has been, what if a player hit 50 HRs? Or had a .350 BA? Is his season any less good? No.

The Triple Crown is a nice feat, and hasnt been done in a long while, but thats not to say Cabrera has had the best offensive season since 1967.


Winning the triple crown is the best offensive season u can have


No it isn't, it may be the most unique accomplishment a player can have, but it doesn't automatically make it the best offensive season a player can have.

Example:

Random Year 1: .325 40 HR 120 RBI Wins Triple Crown

Random Year 2: .330 38 HR 140 RBI Doesn't Win Triple Crown

Is Random Year 1 best offensive season you can have just because you win the triple crown? No. Random year 2 is the better year.

A different hypothetical:

Scenario 1: Cabrera wins HR, RBI, and AVG, thus winning triple crown. NOTE: Cabrera wins AVG by .001

Scenario 2: Cabrera wins HR, RBI, but falls short of AVG by .001, thus doesn't win triple crown.

In this hypothetical scenario does the .002 difference in AVG make a difference as to how great a season Cabrera had?
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The Lurker


Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 438
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Ah I freaking hate the statement of triple crown means less because RBI overvalued. Floating around all over Internet.

It's not like Cabrera played with an All Star roster


Not discounting RBIs (though I am not a huge fan of the stat). My argument is and has been, what if a player hit 50 HRs? Or had a .350 BA? Is his season any less good? No.

The Triple Crown is a nice feat, and hasnt been done in a long while, but thats not to say Cabrera has had the best offensive season since 1967.


Winning the triple crown is the best offensive season u can have


Well thats just not correct.

Take Barry Bonds' record breaking 73 HR season. He didnt win the Triple Crown, does that mean Cabrera's season this year was better?

No.


Yes his all around offensive year was better.


There's no way you actually believe that, right?

Cabrera:
.330/.393/.606
44 HR
139 RBI
66 BB
98 K
622 At bats

Super Bonds:
.328/.515/.863
73 HR's
137 RBI
177 BB
93 K
476 At bats

Only used traditional stats. Just look at that slash line. That's the greatest single season slugging % of all time, and #11 on base % all time. Look at the walks, 3rd most ever. Batting average is near identical, RBI too, despite a difference of ~150 in at bats.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 49461
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Lurker wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Ah I freaking hate the statement of triple crown means less because RBI overvalued. Floating around all over Internet.

It's not like Cabrera played with an All Star roster


Not discounting RBIs (though I am not a huge fan of the stat). My argument is and has been, what if a player hit 50 HRs? Or had a .350 BA? Is his season any less good? No.

The Triple Crown is a nice feat, and hasnt been done in a long while, but thats not to say Cabrera has had the best offensive season since 1967.


Winning the triple crown is the best offensive season u can have


Well thats just not correct.

Take Barry Bonds' record breaking 73 HR season. He didnt win the Triple Crown, does that mean Cabrera's season this year was better?

No.


Yes his all around offensive year was better.


There's no way you actually believe that, right?

Cabrera:
.330/.393/.606
44 HR
139 RBI
66 BB
98 K
622 At bats

Super Bonds:
.328/.515/.863
73 HR's
137 RBI
177 BB
93 K
476 At bats

Only used traditional stats. Just look at that slash line. That's the greatest single season slugging % of all time, and #11 on base % all time. Look at the walks, 3rd most ever. Batting average is near identical, RBI too, despite a difference of ~150 in at bats.


I dont take into consideration anyone who juiced as having a great season sorry. If it ever comes out Miggy did I will be same way.

That is cheating and all those stats do not exist.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1King wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Ah I freaking hate the statement of triple crown means less because RBI overvalued. Floating around all over Internet.

It's not like Cabrera played with an All Star roster


Not discounting RBIs (though I am not a huge fan of the stat). My argument is and has been, what if a player hit 50 HRs? Or had a .350 BA? Is his season any less good? No.

The Triple Crown is a nice feat, and hasnt been done in a long while, but thats not to say Cabrera has had the best offensive season since 1967.


Winning the triple crown is the best offensive season u can have


No it isn't, it may be the most unique accomplishment a player can have, but it doesn't automatically make it the best offensive season a player can have.

Example:

Random Year 1: .325 40 HR 120 RBI Wins Triple Crown

Random Year 2: .330 38 HR 140 RBI Doesn't Win Triple Crown

Is Random Year 1 best offensive season you can have just because you win the triple crown? No. Random year 2 is the better year.

A different hypothetical:

Scenario 1: Cabrera wins HR, RBI, and AVG, thus winning triple crown. NOTE: Cabrera wins AVG by .001

Scenario 2: Cabrera wins HR, RBI, but falls short of AVG by .001, thus doesn't win triple crown.

In this hypothetical scenario does the .002 difference in AVG make a difference as to how great a season Cabrera had?


No. I am not saying that. Simply saying this year Cabrera had the all around best year on offense hands down.
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SadLionFan00


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 14342
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
The Lurker wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Ah I freaking hate the statement of triple crown means less because RBI overvalued. Floating around all over Internet.

It's not like Cabrera played with an All Star roster


Not discounting RBIs (though I am not a huge fan of the stat). My argument is and has been, what if a player hit 50 HRs? Or had a .350 BA? Is his season any less good? No.

The Triple Crown is a nice feat, and hasnt been done in a long while, but thats not to say Cabrera has had the best offensive season since 1967.


Winning the triple crown is the best offensive season u can have


Well thats just not correct.

Take Barry Bonds' record breaking 73 HR season. He didnt win the Triple Crown, does that mean Cabrera's season this year was better?

No.


Yes his all around offensive year was better.


There's no way you actually believe that, right?

Cabrera:
.330/.393/.606
44 HR
139 RBI
66 BB
98 K
622 At bats

Super Bonds:
.328/.515/.863
73 HR's
137 RBI
177 BB
93 K
476 At bats

Only used traditional stats. Just look at that slash line. That's the greatest single season slugging % of all time, and #11 on base % all time. Look at the walks, 3rd most ever. Batting average is near identical, RBI too, despite a difference of ~150 in at bats.


I dont take into consideration anyone who juiced as having a great season sorry. If it ever comes out Miggy did I will be same way.

That is cheating and all those stats do not exist.


I could go off on a tangent on how steroids dont help performance (steroids improve slow twitch muscles, not fast-twitch muscles, which are the ones that control bat speed, yadda yadda) but Im not.

Instead, how about a hypothetical year where a player has a season like 45 HRs, 145 RBIs, .338 AVG, but doesnt win the triple crown. That would still be a better year then Cabrera's.
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Silver&Black88 wrote:
Quote:
Trestman is a great coach but Cutler is already a pouty overconfident poo flinger. What more can he do with him?
Get him to fling poo more accurately and make better decisions when flinging it?
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