Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

1 quarter of the season done.. Guys who should be gone
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5348
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

silver_surfer wrote:

When Palmer is letting the ball fly, we lose our identity... In regards to Campbell, l he knew his role, and the the team was McFaddencentric. Palmer thinks he can put the team on his back to move chains so he audibles to try to make a play.. He has proven that leads to pretty flashy stats but has no impact on victories. Quarterbacks like Romo, and Palmer just can't get the job done when it matters..


THREE WORDS
ZERO PLAYOFF WINS


Palmer tries to put the team on his back? More like has to put the team on his back. In case you haven't been watching the games thus far, he is the only offensive player aside from Myers who is doing well. If you are a QB and your RBs get you 30 yards a game, your OL can barely block, and your D gives up 30 points a game, what exactly would you do? Calls audibles to try to make a play? QBs are supposed to call audibles. Unless he is audibling to try and throw a deep TD every play I don't see how you can say he is calling an audible to "make a play" as if he is trying to show off. And just in case you are using last year as your defense for that statement, Hue is the one who called 40 pass plays a game, not Palmer. QBs run the plays their coaches call.

Playoff wins? The Bengals were not a good team for most of his career. Sure, he had some bad seasons, but it was a combo of terrible running offense, terrible defense, tons of player suspensions and even deaths, and injuries were amongst the reasons the Bengals sucked for the majority of his career. The two times they were good enough to go to the playoffs they lost one game (that does happen, you know) and in the other one Palmer blew out his knee on the first series.

04- Palmer's first season as a starter, poor D
05- Made it to the playoffs, great season for Palmer, Pro Bowl, injured in the beginning of the game
06- Recovering from knee surgery, good season for Palmer, 30th ranked D
07- 24th ranked rush offense, meh season for Palmer, 24th in PPG allowed
08- injury shortened season (only played in 4 games)
09- 10-6 record, good season for Palmer- he led 3 4th qtr comebacks and 5 game-winning drives. Lost to NYJ in playoffs
10- So-so season for Palmer, 27th ranked rush offense, 24th in PPG allowed

Football is a team sport, home boy. So far this season, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees and Tom Brady are a combined 4-8, its not all on the QB.

FYI: Joe Namath, Jeff Garcia, Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, Dan Fouts, Dan Marino, and Peyton Manning all have losing playoff records. Namath only won 2 playoff games and he's one of "the greats". Moon lost more than twice as many as he won. Conversely, Mark Sanchez has a .667 playoff win percentage, and Jeff Hostetler and Trent Dilfer were 4-1 and 5-1 in the postseason. Its not all on the QB. If it were, teams would sign scrubs to fill all 21 other positions on offense and defense, and use all their draft picks and money on QBs.
_________________


Silver&Black88 on the sig

La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5348
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Raidin wrote:
We've 6 draft picks is it? Expecting us to shed 8-9 starters and replace them with 6 draft picks, especially when 5 of them are 3rd round or worse, and free agents is pretty unlikely.


If we have 40 mil in cap room it's doable. And 40 mil is doable, without dead money from this year and impending cuts next year.

Now it's totally unlikely to expect this to yield a great or even a good team, just because such turnover will take time to mesh even if you hit on every pick and pickup, which won't happen. But since we suck horribly anyway, why not take the rebuild to the nth degree ASAP i.e. ripping off a bandaid..
If we spread the turnover into 2 offseasons, it will really only guarantee lengthening the process.




Simply replacing crap players with other crap players won't make any difference though. There is definitely a large number of players who can go but not sure everyone people want gone will be out of here. I hope not either. Some players should be given the chance to play in a team with good players.


+1

Bryant is really the only backup player I can think of that could make it as a starter- so we could get rid of either Kelly or Seymour and be OK. But what about QB, any OL position, DE, OLB, CB, FS or SS? We would have guys like Leinart, Bergstrom, Nix, Bilukidi, Goethel, Mitchell and Gio starting. Some of those guys could eventually start, but cutting everyone in hopes of those guys improving that much is a giant risk. Obviously we would get some guys via FA and the draft, but not enough to make up for that terrible looking line of starters. Bottom line, this kind of thing will take at least 2 years.
_________________


Silver&Black88 on the sig

La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5754
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
Raidin wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Raidin wrote:
We've 6 draft picks is it? Expecting us to shed 8-9 starters and replace them with 6 draft picks, especially when 5 of them are 3rd round or worse, and free agents is pretty unlikely.


If we have 40 mil in cap room it's doable. And 40 mil is doable, without dead money from this year and impending cuts next year.

Now it's totally unlikely to expect this to yield a great or even a good team, just because such turnover will take time to mesh even if you hit on every pick and pickup, which won't happen. But since we suck horribly anyway, why not take the rebuild to the nth degree ASAP i.e. ripping off a bandaid..
If we spread the turnover into 2 offseasons, it will really only guarantee lengthening the process.




Simply replacing crap players with other crap players won't make any difference though. There is definitely a large number of players who can go but not sure everyone people want gone will be out of here. I hope not either. Some players should be given the chance to play in a team with good players.


+1

Bryant is really the only backup player I can think of that could make it as a starter- so we could get rid of either Kelly or Seymour and be OK. But what about QB, any OL position, DE, OLB, CB, FS or SS? We would have guys like Leinart, Bergstrom, Nix, Bilukidi, Goethel, Mitchell and Gio starting. Some of those guys could eventually start, but cutting everyone in hopes of those guys improving that much is a giant risk. Obviously we would get some guys via FA and the draft, but not enough to make up for that terrible looking line of starters. Bottom line, this kind of thing will take at least 2 years.


I can't think of many or any guys in that list who need any more chances. We know what kind of players they are, and are always going to be. Who do you think deserves a chance?

But yes, you'd probably be replacing half of them with crap. That was never the point.
The point was clearing out 40 mil so that we can get some legit talent around here. And to rip off the bandaid by cutting loose guys sooner rather than later.

We have to face that this is a rebuild. At least 2 years, probably 3 or 4. How long has Kubiak been working on Houston??
It's not a reload, and it's not a partial rebuild. It's a deeeeeep rebuild.
If you can't get better, at least do not hesitate to take out the garbage and clean the slate. Our roster and payroll are a slate that must be cleared.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sonic Raider


Joined: 01 Nov 2011
Posts: 612
Location: New Jersey
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Sonic Raider wrote:
thelawoffices wrote:
Alright, if we get rid of Palmer, who do you suggest starts at QB?

I don't get why Spencer has to go, either.


My guess is Matt Leinart since he has experience in the same system Greg Knapp brought here from Houston. But I also want to see how Terrelle Pryor does.


Shut up, Sonic.

Palmer doesn't need to leave. Best player on our team, get ovah it!!!

Seriously, get rid of everything except Palmer, Leinart, and Veldheer on the offense and everyone except Wheeler, Burris, and the line on defense.


No, YOU shut up!

The one poster asked IF they get rid of Palmer then who starts. If you want to ask me who I felt is the best QB of the three we have then Palmer is. My only reason for stating that Leinart could start (again, IF Palmer is rid of) because Leinart has experience in Knapp's scheme.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5348
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Raidin wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Raidin wrote:
We've 6 draft picks is it? Expecting us to shed 8-9 starters and replace them with 6 draft picks, especially when 5 of them are 3rd round or worse, and free agents is pretty unlikely.


If we have 40 mil in cap room it's doable. And 40 mil is doable, without dead money from this year and impending cuts next year.

Now it's totally unlikely to expect this to yield a great or even a good team, just because such turnover will take time to mesh even if you hit on every pick and pickup, which won't happen. But since we suck horribly anyway, why not take the rebuild to the nth degree ASAP i.e. ripping off a bandaid..
If we spread the turnover into 2 offseasons, it will really only guarantee lengthening the process.




Simply replacing crap players with other crap players won't make any difference though. There is definitely a large number of players who can go but not sure everyone people want gone will be out of here. I hope not either. Some players should be given the chance to play in a team with good players.


+1

Bryant is really the only backup player I can think of that could make it as a starter- so we could get rid of either Kelly or Seymour and be OK. But what about QB, any OL position, DE, OLB, CB, FS or SS? We would have guys like Leinart, Bergstrom, Nix, Bilukidi, Goethel, Mitchell and Gio starting. Some of those guys could eventually start, but cutting everyone in hopes of those guys improving that much is a giant risk. Obviously we would get some guys via FA and the draft, but not enough to make up for that terrible looking line of starters. Bottom line, this kind of thing will take at least 2 years.


I can't think of many or any guys in that list who need any more chances. We know what kind of players they are, and are always going to be. Who do you think deserves a chance?

But yes, you'd probably be replacing half of them with crap. That was never the point.
The point was clearing out 40 mil so that we can get some legit talent around here. And to rip off the bandaid by cutting loose guys sooner rather than later.

We have to face that this is a rebuild. At least 2 years, probably 3 or 4. How long has Kubiak been working on Houston??
It's not a reload, and it's not a partial rebuild. It's a deeeeeep rebuild.
If you can't get better, at least do not hesitate to take out the garbage and clean the slate. Our roster and payroll are a slate that must be cleared.


None of the vets I listed deserve more chances. Guys like Bilukidi and Berg obviously deserve time to develop. I just don't want to see every old, over paid, or under performing player to be shown the door at once because our team would be full of guys that belong on the practice squad.
_________________


Silver&Black88 on the sig

La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5754
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
holyghost wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Raidin wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Raidin wrote:
We've 6 draft picks is it? Expecting us to shed 8-9 starters and replace them with 6 draft picks, especially when 5 of them are 3rd round or worse, and free agents is pretty unlikely.


If we have 40 mil in cap room it's doable. And 40 mil is doable, without dead money from this year and impending cuts next year.

Now it's totally unlikely to expect this to yield a great or even a good team, just because such turnover will take time to mesh even if you hit on every pick and pickup, which won't happen. But since we suck horribly anyway, why not take the rebuild to the nth degree ASAP i.e. ripping off a bandaid..
If we spread the turnover into 2 offseasons, it will really only guarantee lengthening the process.




Simply replacing crap players with other crap players won't make any difference though. There is definitely a large number of players who can go but not sure everyone people want gone will be out of here. I hope not either. Some players should be given the chance to play in a team with good players.


+1

Bryant is really the only backup player I can think of that could make it as a starter- so we could get rid of either Kelly or Seymour and be OK. But what about QB, any OL position, DE, OLB, CB, FS or SS? We would have guys like Leinart, Bergstrom, Nix, Bilukidi, Goethel, Mitchell and Gio starting. Some of those guys could eventually start, but cutting everyone in hopes of those guys improving that much is a giant risk. Obviously we would get some guys via FA and the draft, but not enough to make up for that terrible looking line of starters. Bottom line, this kind of thing will take at least 2 years.


I can't think of many or any guys in that list who need any more chances. We know what kind of players they are, and are always going to be. Who do you think deserves a chance?

But yes, you'd probably be replacing half of them with crap. That was never the point.
The point was clearing out 40 mil so that we can get some legit talent around here. And to rip off the bandaid by cutting loose guys sooner rather than later.

We have to face that this is a rebuild. At least 2 years, probably 3 or 4. How long has Kubiak been working on Houston??
It's not a reload, and it's not a partial rebuild. It's a deeeeeep rebuild.
If you can't get better, at least do not hesitate to take out the garbage and clean the slate. Our roster and payroll are a slate that must be cleared.


None of the vets I listed deserve more chances. Guys like Bilukidi and Berg obviously deserve time to develop. I just don't want to see every old, over paid, or under performing player to be shown the door at once because our team would be full of guys that belong on the practice squad.


Sure, Bilukidi and Bergstrom deserve some shot..

If we have a good offseason scouting and making good picks, and signing good free agents, then we can cut pretty deep and move toward something better. That's all I want really. If they're gonna cut, cut deep. Because the team sucks deep right now and there are a number of guys who have been a long time part of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5348
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
If we have a good offseason scouting and making good picks, and signing good free agents, then we can cut pretty deep and move toward something better. That's all I want really. If they're gonna cut, cut deep. Because the team sucks deep right now and there are a number of guys who have been a long time part of it.


I can kind of agree with that. I'd really be OK with Kelly and Seymour leaving, as long as Houston moved to DT with Bryant and we drafted a pass rushing DE. I'm a Palmer supporter, but even I would be OK with letting him walk or trading him as long as we can somehow draft a promising QB and find a stopgap vet FA. I do like Palmer, and I believe he has some years left, but if he is gonna cost us a lot of money and our team truly is rebuilding, it would make sense.
_________________


Silver&Black88 on the sig

La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5460
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
A huge amount depends on salary and cap hit. Makes no sense releasing guys if we still have to take their salary on the cap.


Well, you never know, we did it with Routt this year.


The Raiders had no choice if they wanted to field a team without committing beaucoup longterm dollars to multiple average players. I suspect next season will be much of the same. A few serious cuts and a few retained head scratchers.
_________________
Raiders 2014 Draft (check out my draft review tell me what you think)
Mancrush 2014: DE Clowney, WR Watkins, OT Robinson, LB Shazier, FS Brooks, TE ASJ, OG Jackson, WR Janis, OT Lucas, OT Tiny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cutler06


Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 10085
Location: Westminster
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heck, the Broncos would probably give you a CONDITIONAL 7th for Seymor...... Wink
_________________


Jakuvious wrote:
KC's pass rush is fast. Manning's decision making is faster.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CrashMan510


Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 4472
Location: Bay Area
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutler06 wrote:
Heck, the Broncos would probably give you a CONDITIONAL 7th for Seymor...... Wink


We would win that trade in a landslide Laughing

Seymour has been a black hole this year(no pun)
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eSN8Cwit_s
fuarge
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group