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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 15403
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:

I was just wondering what they sly dig about McClain was about.


Come on, man. You've been arguing with a lot of people on this forum about McClain and your main point to make him look better than he was was his sack number. Now, you're saying the problem is the guys we have blitzing aren't good at it althoug mcClain is still one of the main blitzers. The contradiction seems pretty obvious to me. But like i said, it's no big deal, at some point we all got to realize we've been wrong. For example, i thought Mike Mitchell would be a good player for us and he's obviously not.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
holyghost wrote:

He sucks bro. It's a sad thing to accept. Another busted high first rounder.
It don't even matter why, or how, or how much. If he was a true impact player he'd at least flash occasionally with some sort of plays.... I mean, how good can the guy be if he literally never made one impact play yet for us? You can put two toddlers at DT, and a great player will at least make one play now and then on his own...
So it's so clear by now he is just not that guy we hoped for.

The whole front seven sucks pretty good right now. Whatever pieces that are working are not as good as we want to believe they are (Wheeler, Shaughnessey, Houston, Burris), and the rest are way less than we expected or like to think they are (Seymour, Kelly, McClain).

No more overrating these guys. When you're best one is a 1 year cheap contract castoff from a bad cover 2 defense, you're up the creek without a paddle. That's our reality here.
Who is to blame isn't even relevant any more. Who ISN'T to blame for this pile?!?




I disagree with that he sucks. He's an average MLB in the nfl, probably potential to be above average in a 3-4.


Okay, well I disagree he's average. Captain of 2011 and 2012 which are the 2 worst defenses in the history of the Raiders. Constantly blowing his gap assignments, owner of exactly 0 (0) impact plays so far in his career. Average guys make a play now and then. Jogging, lack of effort evident.

Let's leave out the shooting a gun in the ear of someone incident, which is awful in it's own right.

I'm sorry man, in my sight right now he'd be a bust as a 4th rounder. Never mind the colossal bust he is looking like as an 8th pick in the 1st.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Raidin wrote:
holyghost wrote:

He sucks bro. It's a sad thing to accept. Another busted high first rounder.
It don't even matter why, or how, or how much. If he was a true impact player he'd at least flash occasionally with some sort of plays.... I mean, how good can the guy be if he literally never made one impact play yet for us? You can put two toddlers at DT, and a great player will at least make one play now and then on his own...
So it's so clear by now he is just not that guy we hoped for.

The whole front seven sucks pretty good right now. Whatever pieces that are working are not as good as we want to believe they are (Wheeler, Shaughnessey, Houston, Burris), and the rest are way less than we expected or like to think they are (Seymour, Kelly, McClain).

No more overrating these guys. When you're best one is a 1 year cheap contract castoff from a bad cover 2 defense, you're up the creek without a paddle. That's our reality here.
Who is to blame isn't even relevant any more. Who ISN'T to blame for this pile?!?




I disagree with that he sucks. He's an average MLB in the nfl, probably potential to be above average in a 3-4.


Okay, well I disagree he's average. Captain of 2011 and 2012 which are the 2 worst defenses in the history of the Raiders. Constantly blowing his gap assignments, owner of exactly 0 (0) impact plays so far in his career. Average guys make a play now and then. Jogging, lack of effort evident.

Let's leave out the shooting a gun in the ear of someone incident, which is awful in it's own right.

I'm sorry man, in my sight right now he'd be a bust as a 4th rounder. Never mind the colossal bust he is looking like as an 8th pick in the 1st.




oakdb36 wrote:
Raidin wrote:

I was just wondering what they sly dig about McClain was about.


Come on, man. You've been arguing with a lot of people on this forum about McClain and your main point to make him look better than he was was his sack number. Now, you're saying the problem is the guys we have blitzing aren't good at it althoug mcClain is still one of the main blitzers. The contradiction seems pretty obvious to me. But like i said, it's no big deal, at some point we all got to realize we've been wrong. For example, i thought Mike Mitchell would be a good player for us and he's obviously not.



My point about the sacks was that he doesn't consistantly lumber towards the QB like Big P said. I've also said that given the right situation he can make plays which he has shown he can. I'll also use this time to say 5.5 sacks and an intercept would all be considered impact plays. I've been consistently arguing about how he's not as bad as people say, that's mainly it. I've never once said he's great, or has potential to be great or claimed he's an impact player.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5821
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Raidin wrote:
holyghost wrote:

He sucks bro. It's a sad thing to accept. Another busted high first rounder.
It don't even matter why, or how, or how much. If he was a true impact player he'd at least flash occasionally with some sort of plays.... I mean, how good can the guy be if he literally never made one impact play yet for us? You can put two toddlers at DT, and a great player will at least make one play now and then on his own...
So it's so clear by now he is just not that guy we hoped for.

The whole front seven sucks pretty good right now. Whatever pieces that are working are not as good as we want to believe they are (Wheeler, Shaughnessey, Houston, Burris), and the rest are way less than we expected or like to think they are (Seymour, Kelly, McClain).

No more overrating these guys. When you're best one is a 1 year cheap contract castoff from a bad cover 2 defense, you're up the creek without a paddle. That's our reality here.
Who is to blame isn't even relevant any more. Who ISN'T to blame for this pile?!?




I disagree with that he sucks. He's an average MLB in the nfl, probably potential to be above average in a 3-4.


Okay, well I disagree he's average. Captain of 2011 and 2012 which are the 2 worst defenses in the history of the Raiders. Constantly blowing his gap assignments, owner of exactly 0 (0) impact plays so far in his career. Average guys make a play now and then. Jogging, lack of effort evident.

Let's leave out the shooting a gun in the ear of someone incident, which is awful in it's own right.

I'm sorry man, in my sight right now he'd be a bust as a 4th rounder. Never mind the colossal bust he is looking like as an 8th pick in the 1st.




oakdb36 wrote:
Raidin wrote:

I was just wondering what they sly dig about McClain was about.


Come on, man. You've been arguing with a lot of people on this forum about McClain and your main point to make him look better than he was was his sack number. Now, you're saying the problem is the guys we have blitzing aren't good at it althoug mcClain is still one of the main blitzers. The contradiction seems pretty obvious to me. But like i said, it's no big deal, at some point we all got to realize we've been wrong. For example, i thought Mike Mitchell would be a good player for us and he's obviously not.



My point about the sacks was that he doesn't consistantly lumber towards the QB like Big P said. I've also said that given the right situation he can make plays which he has shown he can. I'll also use this time to say 5.5 sacks and an intercept would all be considered impact plays. I've been consistently arguing about how he's not as bad as people say, that's mainly it. I've never once said he's great, or has potential to be great or claimed he's an impact player.


Impact plays are plays that change and/or win games, or at least that is how I am defining it in my post. He's made none that I can remember.

5.5 sacks and 1 int is better than nothing. Sounds like the resume of a backup role player. And that's his best year.

He's not as bad as people say, it's true. But he's a first round pick and captain of an abomination of a defense. All the talk about him being a killer in the film room has not translated one bit to the field in the NFL.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He didn't pick himself in the first round though. Same with DHB, never in a million years is he a first round pick but it's not his fault. Linebackers don't really rack up high sack or Int numbers so his stats aren't terrible. I'd say they are about average.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Raidin wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Raidin wrote:
holyghost wrote:

He sucks bro. It's a sad thing to accept. Another busted high first rounder.
It don't even matter why, or how, or how much. If he was a true impact player he'd at least flash occasionally with some sort of plays.... I mean, how good can the guy be if he literally never made one impact play yet for us? You can put two toddlers at DT, and a great player will at least make one play now and then on his own...
So it's so clear by now he is just not that guy we hoped for.

The whole front seven sucks pretty good right now. Whatever pieces that are working are not as good as we want to believe they are (Wheeler, Shaughnessey, Houston, Burris), and the rest are way less than we expected or like to think they are (Seymour, Kelly, McClain).

No more overrating these guys. When you're best one is a 1 year cheap contract castoff from a bad cover 2 defense, you're up the creek without a paddle. That's our reality here.
Who is to blame isn't even relevant any more. Who ISN'T to blame for this pile?!?




I disagree with that he sucks. He's an average MLB in the nfl, probably potential to be above average in a 3-4.


Okay, well I disagree he's average. Captain of 2011 and 2012 which are the 2 worst defenses in the history of the Raiders. Constantly blowing his gap assignments, owner of exactly 0 (0) impact plays so far in his career. Average guys make a play now and then. Jogging, lack of effort evident.

Let's leave out the shooting a gun in the ear of someone incident, which is awful in it's own right.

I'm sorry man, in my sight right now he'd be a bust as a 4th rounder. Never mind the colossal bust he is looking like as an 8th pick in the 1st.




oakdb36 wrote:
Raidin wrote:

I was just wondering what they sly dig about McClain was about.


Come on, man. You've been arguing with a lot of people on this forum about McClain and your main point to make him look better than he was was his sack number. Now, you're saying the problem is the guys we have blitzing aren't good at it althoug mcClain is still one of the main blitzers. The contradiction seems pretty obvious to me. But like i said, it's no big deal, at some point we all got to realize we've been wrong. For example, i thought Mike Mitchell would be a good player for us and he's obviously not.



My point about the sacks was that he doesn't consistantly lumber towards the QB like Big P said. I've also said that given the right situation he can make plays which he has shown he can. I'll also use this time to say 5.5 sacks and an intercept would all be considered impact plays. I've been consistently arguing about how he's not as bad as people say, that's mainly it. I've never once said he's great, or has potential to be great or claimed he's an impact player.


Impact plays are plays that change and/or win games, or at least that is how I am defining it in my post. He's made none that I can remember.

5.5 sacks and 1 int is better than nothing. Sounds like the resume of a backup role player. And that's his best year.

He's not as bad as people say, it's true. But he's a first round pick and captain of an abomination of a defense. All the talk about him being a killer in the film room has not translated one bit to the field in the NFL.



This. As the 8 overall pick you have to make a bigger impact. I look at other MLB's in this league and think dang I wish we had that guy. The dude isn't a leader Seymour is the leader McClain should be.
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Raidin


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What exactly has Seymour done as a leader? Expect get lots of personal fouls and kicked out of a few games for us?
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
He didn't pick himself in the first round though. Same with DHB, never in a million years is he a first round pick but it's not his fault. Linebackers don't really rack up high sack or Int numbers so his stats aren't terrible. I'd say they are about average.


Well, it's true. He didn't pick himself. But he was consensus top 15 and highest rated LB.
He didn't pick himself. But the Raiders didn't hold that gun to the guy's ear did they. The Raiders don't jog around. Lamarr Houston recovered a fumble 60 yards past the line of scrimmage last week. McClain didn't. He was probably jogging around 50 yards away.

He was poorly scouted, that much is clear now. Didn't transfer talent to this league, but more importantly off the field red flags should have gone up. I guess that's why I am glad we actually have a scouting department now.

Same for DHB. He didn't pick himself. But he was a first rounder. Giants were set on taking him.
At least he's a hard worker who almost went 1000 yards last year. If DHB is anything to compare by, he brought a much greater impact than McClain so far. Considering how people bash DHB, that says alot about McCLain.
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Raidin


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McClain was actually right behind Huston on that play, but don't let facts get in the way of a good rant. Laughing
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
McClain was actually right behind Huston on that play, but don't let facts get in the way of a good rant. Laughing


Didn't see him. It's not really my point anyway on that, but if he was there then good hustle. Hey man, I'm a Raider fan. I'd love to see 60 minutes of that out of McClain 16 weeks a year. Will we?
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Raidin


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Raidin wrote:
McClain was actually right behind Huston on that play, but don't let facts get in the way of a good rant. Laughing


Didn't see him. It's not really my point anyway on that, but if he was there then good hustle. Hey man, I'm a Raider fan. I'd love to see 60 minutes of that out of McClain 16 weeks a year. Will we?




No. But then again it's physically possible for him to do that. You certainly won't see houston chasing down the field like that on every play, he'll get a pass from the fans though. This is another problem with McClain, not only was he drafted high but he was drafted incorrectly for a team running a 4-3. The guy is 260lbs, he's not built for endurance or sprinting. He's 20lbs heavier than both Wheeler and burris.

Compared to other 4-3 MLBs
- Curtis lofton 240lbs
- James Lauranitis 250
- Paul Posluszny 242
- Karlos Dansby 250
- will Witherspoon 240
- Jon Beason 235
- D'Qwell Jackson 240
- Stephen Tulloch 240
- Ray Malauga 265

Think only one 4-3 MLB is bigger than him.
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Raidin wrote:
McClain was actually right behind Huston on that play, but don't let facts get in the way of a good rant. Laughing


Didn't see him. It's not really my point anyway on that, but if he was there then good hustle. Hey man, I'm a Raider fan. I'd love to see 60 minutes of that out of McClain 16 weeks a year. Will we?




No. But then again it's physically possible for him to do that. You certainly won't see houston chasing down the field like that on every play, he'll get a pass from the fans though. This is another problem with McClain, not only was he drafted high but he was drafted incorrectly for a team running a 4-3. The guy is 260lbs, he's not built for endurance or sprinting. He's 20lbs heavier than both Wheeler and burris.

Compared to other 4-3 MLBs
- Curtis lofton 240lbs
- James Lauranitis 250
- Paul Posluszny 242
- Karlos Dansby 250
- will Witherspoon 240
- Jon Beason 235
- D'Qwell Jackson 240
- Stephen Tulloch 240
- Ray Malauga 265

Think only one 4-3 MLB is bigger than him.


Part of another post of mine regarding the completely non-cohesive defensive talent.
McClain is not looking like a 4-3 MLB, and probably never did. 3-4 ILB? Whatever he is, this ain't it. I'm even thinking what he would look like adding 15 pounds and playing DE, but I wouldn't want to see it on this team..
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJfrz3hVHjs&feature=related

From 2:30 mark on Brian Baldinger disects Reggie Bush's TD runs, McClain is really worrying me, i thought he'd pull something out this year but so far looks too slow not just in speed but in thought also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyPNjYOr3mQ

Never seen this guy before but picks a few things up like the need for a pass rushing DE and the questions over the ZBS and CBs. Think he overrates our interior DL though....
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Raidin


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If McClain is worrying you Tyvon Branch and Philip Wheeler must have you petrified.
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
If McClain is worrying you Tyvon Branch and Philip Wheeler must have you petrified.


Petrified.........Branch at least has played pretty well in the last couple of years and i think Wheeler has been a positive, albeit he has made some rash decisions and mistakes. McClain hasn't really shown anything to suggest he will come good and looks liek another 1st round flop.

Do you not see any positives in Wheeler and Branch??
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