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Postgame Thread: Chicago @ Dallas
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
If true, I love Stephen.

If true, who do we look at OC wise?



Every night before you go to sleep.. pray that Norv Turner gets fired and wants to come here for a lifetime contract.


EVERYNIGHT!


You don't think ol' Turner boy is still miffed about not getting the HC gig here?
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Rtnldave


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
TheStarStillShines wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
If true, I love Stephen.

If true, who do we look at OC wise?


I would love to see a WCO OC come in. The line can't protect, so incorporate a lot of 3- and 5-step drops with the WRs running slants, fades, and quick outs. Also, it means using the RB and FB in the passing game.

Combine that with a tough running game. While the OL can't really open up holes, WCO coordinators tend to stick with the run and will run out of different formations. Not sure who would fit the bill, but maybe someone like Ben McAdoo, who is the QB coach for Green Bay; Doug Pederson of Philadelphia; or Chad O'Shea of New England. These teams incorporate a lot of WCO principles in their offence, although I would prefer O'Shea given NE focuses on creating balance in their offence.

Another philosophy would be Tom Moore offence, which uses a lot of skinny posts, seam routes, and quick outs in the passing game while the running game uses a lot of stretch plays. Karl Dorrell of Houston would be a prime candidate.


I think you listed some excellent candidates.

A thing to consider is that we are also seeing a shift in our offensive line philosophy. We are going to see players who are better in space, who are athletic. So the OC we do get cannot be a ground and pound type of guy.



Ok, before we go flushing J.G. (as an OC) down the toilet, consider this article. And I have to say, I rewatched the game and there were several plays, that if the PLAYERS, not the play calling, did their frickin jobs (all the money they get paid) I think we win this game.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/article-BryanBroaddusBlog/Upon-Further-Review-Romo-Not-At-Best-But-Didnt-Get-Much-Help-/f026135e-14c1-484d-848b-6e8787c7a535
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CT Cowboy Fan


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone else anxiously awaiting the triumphant return of Phil Costa? As odd as it sounds I'd like to have him back at center and see if Cook can play some RG. Bernie clearly isn't worth a damn, and maybe a small shuffle like that could help our Oline wows.
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CowboysTilIDie


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't one of the ones who thought the playcalling was atrocious in this specific game. In the previous two games? Absolutely. Do I wish he would have stuck with the run a little longer against Chicago? Yes. But, the reality is that we were passing the ball at will against them. The protection wasn't terrible and Romo had many opportunities to make plays, as did his receivers. Romo left 14 points on the field when he missed Dez and Miles up the seam. Ogletree dropped a gimme pass in the redzone that resulted in an INT. That would have been at least another 3 points. Theres 17 points right there. Romo then throws/fumbles two balls returned for 14 points. One of which was in the redzone. Thats another potential 3 or 7 points off the board. All of those together equals at the minimum at 34 point swing. We moved the ball. Players simply didn't make plays when given the opportunity.
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shags74


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im the one who suggested benching Romo, IF he has another game like Monday. And I stand by that statement. At least for a series or two until he gets it through his head that he cant keep doing stupid things that cost games. The Briggs INT was absolutely inexcusable. The D just gave you back the momentum deep in Bears territory. Take the sack and live another day. You will at least get the field goal if not more.

Jimmy Johnson CUT backup RB Derrick Lassic in the early 90s for fumbling once. CUT him!!! For fumbling once in a game!!!! Im not saying go to that extreme, however some discipline and accountability somewhere along those lines would be nice. If someone gives the ball (or the game) away, or drops more than one pass, or false starts three times, make them sit for a series or two and think about it. Ask yourself what would Jimmy do?

As I said, hes been the starter now for closer to a decade than not. How much longer are excuses going to be made for him? Not all the team's woes are his fault but he should be held more accountable than he is. He does improvise, a lot of times he does often keep us in games, he does often have great stats, he often makes the great play despite the bad O-line. But what does the organization have to show for it? Unfortunately a lot of his memorable or heroic games have been in September. He has a long history of making terrible decisions and single-handedly costing multiple games per season, just like Brett Favre. But Favre had many DEEP playoff runs, at least five NFC Championship appearances, a couple Super Bowl appearances and a Lombardi trophy to make all the bad things secondary.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
You don't think ol' Turner boy is still miffed about not getting the HC gig here?



Nope... No I do not.
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plan9misfit wrote:

If we're able to go 11-5 or better, then Garrett and his staff deserve to be coaches of the damned decade.
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mco65


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shags74 wrote:


Jimmy Johnson CUT backup RB Derrick Lassic in the early 90s for fumbling once. CUT him!!! For fumbling once in a game!!!! Im not saying go to that extreme, however some discipline and accountability somewhere along those lines would be nice. If someone gives the ball (or the game) away, or drops more than one pass, or false starts three times, make them sit for a series or two and think about it. Ask yourself what would Jimmy do?



My memory is bad but I think it was Curvin Richards who Jimmy cut and he fumbled twice in one game.. the last game vs the Bears as a motivation for the team going into the playoffs.. but it was Curvin Richards who he cut, he would NOT HAVE CUT Emmitt Smith.. even if Emmitt hand fumbled 5 times... he simply would not have cut him. Jimmy was using Curvin, an expendable player, as an example.. it was a sorry azz example if you ask me and Jimmy could have got his point across without scooping to such measures.. but that was Jimmy's way and he won Super Bowls that way so its hard to mount an argument against it.. but for my money, he could have went a different route. The Cowboys were gonna win the Super Bowl that year regardless of Curvin Richards being cut or not..
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WareWolf94


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Knowing the schemes? What the hell does that even mean? These teams are professionals. They look at endless game tape.

The Bears line-up and play the same defense almost every down. We knew their scheme. They executed, we didn't. End of story.
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TheStarStillShines


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WareWolf94 wrote:
Knowing the schemes? What the hell does that even mean? These teams are professionals. They look at endless game tape.

The Bears line-up and play the same defense almost every down. We knew their scheme. They executed, we didn't. End of story.


And every opposing team not only knows the Boys' offensive schemes but the plays they're going to call out of certain formations.
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Rtnldave


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheStarStillShines wrote:
WareWolf94 wrote:
Knowing the schemes? What the hell does that even mean? These teams are professionals. They look at endless game tape.

The Bears line-up and play the same defense almost every down. We knew their scheme. They executed, we didn't. End of story.


And every opposing team not only knows the Boys' offensive schemes but the plays they're going to call out of certain formations.



Again, we are going round robin. The point here is it didn't matter if Chic knew the schemes. The players were in positions to make plays and they choked. All of them! Dez dropped passes for big gains, Murray fumbled a toss for a big gain, Romo overthrew 2 recievers for possible TD's, Ogletree dropped a sure catch that would have set up a FG/TD which led to an INT, and the hits just kept oncoming.
The plays were there to be made, the players f'ed up! Not the schemes, nothe coaches,not the crowd being silent, it was the P-L-A-Y-E-R-S Faults. All of them, not just Romo. Him to, but not alone.
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mco65


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:

Again, we are going round robin. The point here is it didn't matter if Chic knew the schemes. The players were in positions to make plays and they choked. All of them! Dez dropped passes for big gains, Murray fumbled a toss for a big gain, Romo overthrew 2 recievers for possible TD's, Ogletree dropped a sure catch that would have set up a FG/TD which led to an INT, and the hits just kept oncoming.
The plays were there to be made, the players f'ed up! Not the schemes, nothe coaches,not the crowd being silent, it was the P-L-A-Y-E-R-S Faults. All of them, not just Romo. Him to, but not alone.


Agreed.. the players failed miserably vs the Bears.. not the coaches IMO. But of course you can always argue any time the Players screw up, its the coaches fault for not having them better prepared.. Sad

Just look at the Murray fumbled on the toss play. It was 2nd and 5.. I was thinking draw but Romo pitched out to Murray who appeared to have an easy first down and likely much more but what did he do? He dropped the ball, literally. Luckily for the Cowboys (or perhaps NOT so lucky) he recovered it up for a loss.. now the Cowboys are in 3 and long.. not the coaches fault but the Players, Murray specifically..

On 3rd and long the Bears show BLITZ.. Romo reads that audibles and throws hot to Bryant only Bryant didn't read it that way and did a stop and go.. Result is a PICK 6.. not coaches fault but Romo/Byrant's fault or Murray's fault for the team being 3rd and long vs 1st and 10.. how ever you want to call it...

The point is there is a domino effect to every play. Every bad (or good) play effects the next play or plays.. 1 bad play begets another bad play begets another begets a bad game all around..
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TheStarStillShines


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
TheStarStillShines wrote:
WareWolf94 wrote:
Knowing the schemes? What the hell does that even mean? These teams are professionals. They look at endless game tape.

The Bears line-up and play the same defense almost every down. We knew their scheme. They executed, we didn't. End of story.


And every opposing team not only knows the Boys' offensive schemes but the plays they're going to call out of certain formations.



Again, we are going round robin. The point here is it didn't matter if Chic knew the schemes. The players were in positions to make plays and they choked. All of them! Dez dropped passes for big gains, Murray fumbled a toss for a big gain, Romo overthrew 2 recievers for possible TD's, Ogletree dropped a sure catch that would have set up a FG/TD which led to an INT, and the hits just kept oncoming.
The plays were there to be made, the players f'ed up! Not the schemes, nothe coaches,not the crowd being silent, it was the P-L-A-Y-E-R-S Faults. All of them, not just Romo. Him to, but not alone.


Tillman jumped the route on his INT. It was clear on the replays, but Romo did not anticipate that. I think Tillman would have picked off the pass anyway, although he may not have scored.

The running game, in particular, is a concern. It's too predictable as others have mentioned. How many times do we see opposing LBs in the backfield on a running play? Way too many, and they likely know that a running play is coming by the formation, Romo's drop back, the motion of the OL and FB, etc.
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mco65


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see the running game as predictable (it could be) but I don't see it. The LBs are in the backfield because they read run and are free to get to the ball because the oline is not pushing the dline back into the LBs.. Even if the LBs could predict a run, if the Oline got a good push the LB would not make the tackle until the RB was 5 yards down field. I think it all boils down to OLine play..

When the Cowboys had a Great OLINE back in the 90s, opposing defenses KNEW Emmitt was gonna get the ball yet they could not do anything about it.. so Predictability, if it is a problem is only a problem because of the poor offensive line.. fix the Oline and it wont matter if the other team can predict when the Cowboys will run the ball. JMO.
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Rtnldave


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheStarStillShines wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
TheStarStillShines wrote:
WareWolf94 wrote:
Knowing the schemes? What the hell does that even mean? These teams are professionals. They look at endless game tape.

The Bears line-up and play the same defense almost every down. We knew their scheme. They executed, we didn't. End of story.


And every opposing team not only knows the Boys' offensive schemes but the plays they're going to call out of certain formations.



Again, we are going round robin. The point here is it didn't matter if Chic knew the schemes. The players were in positions to make plays and they choked. All of them! Dez dropped passes for big gains, Murray fumbled a toss for a big gain, Romo overthrew 2 recievers for possible TD's, Ogletree dropped a sure catch that would have set up a FG/TD which led to an INT, and the hits just kept oncoming.
The plays were there to be made, the players f'ed up! Not the schemes, nothe coaches,not the crowd being silent, it was the P-L-A-Y-E-R-S Faults. All of them, not just Romo. Him to, but not alone.


Tillman jumped the route on his INT. It was clear on the replays, but Romo did not anticipate that. I think Tillman would have picked off the pass anyway, although he may not have scored.

The running game, in particular, is a concern. It's too predictable as others have mentioned. How many times do we see opposing LBs in the backfield on a running play? Way too many, and they likely know that a running play is coming by the formation, Romo's drop back, the motion of the OL and FB, etc.



And lest we forget the drum I have been beating since the draft when I suggested we draft Dontari Poe or a NT of similar potential. I rewatched the game and counted at least 4 times we either got penetration and the RB ran right pass the center of our D line OR we could only get pressure from the edges. Cutler would casually take 1 step up in the cozy little pocket that ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE THERE (Voice of Joe from Family Guy) and throw a completion down field or underneath that would break for big yards. I have watched Eli, Skelton, Wilson and a host of other QB's figure this out against our defense. The way to attack is simple:
Let Ware rush from the edge, use his momentum to keep him going in that direction (ole') step up in the pocket and burn our secondary....again.
Have you ever noticed how most of Ware's sacks are from behind the QB when he gets the opportunity to strip the ball? Yeah.....maybe we should fix that. (Voice of Stewie from Family Guy)

Guys, our defense is going to really struggle from here on out until we get a NT that can collapse the pocket or we switch back to a 4-3 where we can get penetration up the middle. Just look how it works wonders against our offense.
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NYDC4life


Joined: 22 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick ? Has our Offense come out in a 3 TE set or a 4 wide set this yr ?
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