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jcvoodoo


Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 436
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Unless we fire Spags after a year and hire a new defensive coordinator we're not going to run a 3-4.


Agreed...

Look, no one on this site wants to see the Saints return to the 34 as much as me!!! The thing is though Spags is a 43 guy and he aint going no where. Payton hired Spags and i seriously doubt he'll want him gone before he can work with him.

Another things is while Cam Jordan & Akeem Hicks could excel in a 34 scheme... Lofton, Hawthorne, Vilma (if he's here) and Bunkley arent suited for roles in that scheme.

I say stay the course and give Spags time. We all knew he needed pass rushers to make this work and we all knew he dident have any currently. I will say though to protect ourselves in case Spags is eventually shown the door that whatever pass rusher we target in round one be versitle enough that he could play in either a 34 or 43 just in case...


Agreed... and nice to see you posting again Mr. Worm.

I like how Spags run a defense. He is a defensive guru. Just something to keep in mind, compare the Saints defense under Spags now with the Giants defense when Spags was there... many similarities with one MAJOR difference............. the Saints seriously LACK the caliber of guys Spags had with the Giants.

It was suggested that Corey White become the starting FS next year... I totally agree with that.

We need to renew Jimmy Graham's contract and possibly Sproles too.

We need someone to replace Bushrod.

Draft Werner or the big dude from Ohio State. Better yet, if Mickey Loomis is the GM genius I think he is... let's try to deal to get two 1st round picks in 2013.

What about that??? More to come later...
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Raves


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Joined: 03 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jcvoodoo wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Unless we fire Spags after a year and hire a new defensive coordinator we're not going to run a 3-4.


Agreed...

Look, no one on this site wants to see the Saints return to the 34 as much as me!!! The thing is though Spags is a 43 guy and he aint going no where. Payton hired Spags and i seriously doubt he'll want him gone before he can work with him.

Another things is while Cam Jordan & Akeem Hicks could excel in a 34 scheme... Lofton, Hawthorne, Vilma (if he's here) and Bunkley arent suited for roles in that scheme.

I say stay the course and give Spags time. We all knew he needed pass rushers to make this work and we all knew he dident have any currently. I will say though to protect ourselves in case Spags is eventually shown the door that whatever pass rusher we target in round one be versitle enough that he could play in either a 34 or 43 just in case...


Agreed... and nice to see you posting again Mr. Worm.

I like how Spags run a defense. He is a defensive guru. Just something to keep in mind, compare the Saints defense under Spags now with the Giants defense when Spags was there... many similarities with one MAJOR difference............. the Saints seriously LACK the caliber of guys Spags had with the Giants.

It was suggested that Corey White become the starting FS next year... I totally agree with that.

We need to renew Jimmy Graham's contract and possibly Sproles too.

We need someone to replace Bushrod.

Draft Werner or the big dude from Ohio State. Better yet, if Mickey Loomis is the GM genius I think he is... let's try to deal to get two 1st round picks in 2013.

What about that??? More to come later...


That would be Jon Hankins from Ohio State. Dude is ridiculous.

I wouldn't mind us trying to get a 2nd 1st round pick, use the 1st on John Hankins and then try to grab one of the top DEs that are bound to slide down in the draft such as one of the Texas Duo or even William Gholston. Picking up former HS teammates in Hankins and Gholston who even playing vs each other have competitions to see who can get there quicker and more often would be crazy.

LDE-Cameron Jordan
LDT-Jon Hankins
RDT-Akiem Hicks
RDE-William Gholston

That's a ridiculously talented DL not to mention you could go 3-4 with Jordan/Hankins/Gholston as well with Wilson/Galette coming off the ends.
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Porter22


Joined: 13 Feb 2010
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Location: Weyhe, Germany
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good but how do you see us getting another 1st rounder? We might not have our 2nd rounder and I really hope we don't trade our future 1st rounder again...
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Raves


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Porter22 wrote:
Looks good but how do you see us getting another 1st rounder? We might not have our 2nd rounder and I really hope we don't trade our future 1st rounder again...


Trading our future 1st is about the only way we can get a 2nd 1st round pick.

But if it meant getting a top defensive prospect, I mean one we all can get behind, I would definitely trade our next year's 1st.

Someone like Jackson Jeffcoat, Alex Okafor, William Gholston, Johnthan Banks, Xavier Rhodes later in the 1st, I would def do it. Especially if it meant us getting Johnathan Hankins or Star Lotulelei at the top of the draft.
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Porter22


Joined: 13 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
Porter22 wrote:
Looks good but how do you see us getting another 1st rounder? We might not have our 2nd rounder and I really hope we don't trade our future 1st rounder again...


Trading our future 1st is about the only way we can get a 2nd 1st round pick.

But if it meant getting a top defensive prospect, I mean one we all can get behind, I would definitely trade our next year's 1st.

Someone like Jackson Jeffcoat, Alex Okafor, William Gholston, Johnthan Banks, Xavier Rhodes later in the 1st, I would def do it. Especially if it meant us getting Johnathan Hankins or Star Lotulelei at the top of the draft.
Ok then I couldn't say no, too. Laughing I would love picking up such great defense talent, but I doubt we will start building our team through the draft with Loomis and Payton...
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Canadian Saint


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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Location: Canada!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

William Gholston would be a good target in the 2nd I think. I'm a little worried on how raw he is, and the apparent character issues, but I love his measurables.

Raves, what's your thoughts on Gholston's current abilities in the pass rush department?

Also, if we're picking a DT, I'd rather pick DT Star Lotulelei.

DE: Jordan/Wilson?
UT: Hicks/Johnson
NT: Lotulelei/Bunkley
DE: Galette/Gholston

That rotation would be great I think.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canadian Saint wrote:
William Gholston would be a good target in the 2nd I think. I'm a little worried on how raw he is, and the apparent character issues, but I love his measurables.

Raves, what's your thoughts on Gholston's current abilities in the pass rush department?

Also, if we're picking a DT, I'd rather pick DT Star Lotulelei.

DE: Jordan/Wilson?
UT: Hicks/Johnson
NT: Lotulelei/Bunkley
DE: Galette/Gholston

That rotation would be great I think.


Gholston needs to develop his pass rush moves, he relies too much on natural ability, but with a coach like Spags he can learn quickly.

Also right now Star might be the better player, but Hankins has barely started to scratch the surface of his potential and I think will be a much better player in the NFL when not going against spread offenses all the time. Hankins is so ridiculous of an athlete Ohio State actually put him as a 4-3 DE a bit last year as well as this year to help provide an outside rush when Nathan Williams has been out. That should tell you what kind of player he is.

Also if you start looking at the different draft sites, they are slowly starting to put Hankins over Star.
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101stSaintsFan


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 1792
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jcvoodoo wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Unless we fire Spags after a year and hire a new defensive coordinator we're not going to run a 3-4.


Agreed...

Look, no one on this site wants to see the Saints return to the 34 as much as me!!! The thing is though Spags is a 43 guy and he aint going no where. Payton hired Spags and i seriously doubt he'll want him gone before he can work with him.

Another things is while Cam Jordan & Akeem Hicks could excel in a 34 scheme... Lofton, Hawthorne, Vilma (if he's here) and Bunkley arent suited for roles in that scheme.

I say stay the course and give Spags time. We all knew he needed pass rushers to make this work and we all knew he dident have any currently. I will say though to protect ourselves in case Spags is eventually shown the door that whatever pass rusher we target in round one be versitle enough that he could play in either a 34 or 43 just in case...


Agreed... and nice to see you posting again Mr. Worm.

I like how Spags run a defense. He is a defensive guru. Just something to keep in mind, compare the Saints defense under Spags now with the Giants defense when Spags was there... many similarities with one MAJOR difference............. the Saints seriously LACK the caliber of guys Spags had with the Giants.

It was suggested that Corey White become the starting FS next year... I totally agree with that.

We need to renew Jimmy Graham's contract and possibly Sproles too.

We need someone to replace Bushrod.

Draft Werner or the big dude from Ohio State. Better yet, if Mickey Loomis is the GM genius I think he is... let's try to deal to get two 1st round picks in 2013.

What about that??? More to come later...


Call it pessimism, but I don't think Graham stays.
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves,

I know your an OSU guy but I'll go on record now with it...

Hankins is not only the best DT in this draft but he's also one of the best pass rushers!

For everyone let me explain why I say that.

For the size that Hankins is he is extremly athletic for such a big man. His pressure of course is generated on the interior for the most part. Great pass rushers dont only have to come in the form of outside speed rushers. What makes a great pass rusher is the ability to push the pocket and get the quarterback off the spot. Hankins possesses Albert Haynesworth type of ability in this reguard and honestly if the Saints were to draft him an pair him with Akeem Hicks that would be one sacry a$$ interior and would really free up our edge rushers on the outside because the double teams would be on the interior.

What i'd love to see is a Saints defensive line something like this in 2013...

LDE - Cam Jordan
DT - Akeem Hicks
NT - Jon Hankins
RDE - Michael Bennett

Why Hankins and Bennett?

Like I said before, Hankins could very well be the best pass rusher on the board when we select in round one and would give us a massive duo upfront while landing Bennett in FA would take away from a division rival while landing a player whom I feel is on the verge of truly breaking out!

Yes Bennett plays LDE in Tampa but he's better suited on the right side but plays left because of Adrain Clayborns arm situation.

Still... we'd have to also draft abother speed rusher or two to boot!
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Canadian Saint


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only thing about drafting an DE is I hope we get one who has somewhat proven as a passrusher. Proven in the sense that some player has a decent repertoire of pass rush moves and decent athletic ability.

It's probably unreasonable if we're picking a DE with a non-1st round pick, but I'd like to pick a D-linemen who knows how to rush passer, instead of us having to properly having to instruct that ability.
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saintsfan


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

101stSaintsFan wrote:
Call it pessimism, but I don't think Graham stays.

Why do you think that?
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Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saintsfan wrote:
101stSaintsFan wrote:
Call it pessimism, but I don't think Graham stays.

Why do you think that?

No way we let him leave honestly. He'll get his cash and why would he want to leave? Once Paytons back next year we're right back to championship contenders.
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SaintsBeast


Joined: 30 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeJUxwKAZDI

My only problem with Hankins is that he gets back there, but then rushes PAST the ballcarrier. That needs to be fixed.

But someone mentioned Albert Haynesworth... Check out that last clip, starts at 0:58. Look familiar? Laughing
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Raves


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaintsBeast wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeJUxwKAZDI

My only problem with Hankins is that he gets back there, but then rushes PAST the ballcarrier. That needs to be fixed.

But someone mentioned Albert Haynesworth... Check out that last clip, starts at 0:58. Look familiar? Laughing


The reason he runs PAST the ball carrier is because he was in the backfield so fast that the ball carrier didn't even have the ball yet and he kept the run to the inside instead of letting it be bounced outside. Every play that you say he runs past the ball carrier he's already in the backfield before the handoff is even completed, which means he just wasn't able to get his change of momentum fast enough to make the play.

Also that video had some horrible opinions on the negatives. Hankins had no self control in HS and was very out of shape, Ohio State told him he had to be a 350, from nearly 400, by end of his senior season to be able to attend Ohio State, he made it. Since then he's busted his but and has dropped weight and transformed from a massive blob to a guy with a quick first step and able to blow up the pocket. Also how is not a stat sheet stuffer a negative? Some of the greatest players don't put up a lot of stats simply because their impact is so great other players are able to make plays.
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Canadian Saint


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can DT Kawaan Short play NT? He's got a good pass rush, and he's pretty good against the run. Him and Hicks in the middle might be a good idea.

It would also present the opportunity for us to trade down. While this may look like a bad idea, consider we're without a 2nd this year, and with some of the QBs coming out(Barkley, Geno Smith to name a few), a couple of teams may overpay to trade up and get one. I'm not talking Rams like haul, but maybe some extra picks this year or next?

Say we get a later 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd next year for our 1st.

1. NT Kawaan Short
2. DE Michael Buchanan
3. OT Justin Pugh

Or something like that. Pugh would give us a decent OT prospect, in addition to Brown. Short could rotate with Hicks and Bunkley and give us some nice ability in the middle. Especially if he can play both NT and UT. Buchanan has good pass rush moves, and is a great athlete. Could be a guy Spags could develop into a consistent pass rusher and DE for us.
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