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The Vikes defense under Alan Williams
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
Another interesting stat: the Vikings are 9th in the NFL in defence and 7th in scoring defence.

Which is impressive given that the bulk of the money and premium draft choices are on the other side of the ball, where the Vikings are 21st in offence and 17th in scoring.

At a certain point you have to start giving credit to Leslie Frazier and Alan Williams for getting this defence to play at this level.


You could also argue that the Vikes defense had a lot more resources in place, so they didnt have to spend as much upgrading that side of the ball.

The defense clearly needed upgrades in the secondary, and Cook, Smith and Robinson have been huge for us this year.
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milanb


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:


You could also argue that the Vikes defense had a lot more resources in place, so they didnt have to spend as much upgrading that side of the ball.

The defense clearly needed upgrades in the secondary, and Cook, Smith and Robinson have been huge for us this year.


Not really.

Once you got past Jared Allen, Kevin Williams and Chad Greenway, who did the Vikings have in terms of established veterans on defence? Antoine Winfield has been hurt the past couple of years and is nearing the end of his career anyway.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:


You could also argue that the Vikes defense had a lot more resources in place, so they didnt have to spend as much upgrading that side of the ball.

The defense clearly needed upgrades in the secondary, and Cook, Smith and Robinson have been huge for us this year.


Not really.

Once you got past Jared Allen, Kevin Williams and Chad Greenway, who did the Vikings have in terms of established veterans on defence? Antoine Winfield has been hurt the past couple of years and is nearing the end of his career anyway.


There were a bunch of young up and comers on defense like Robison, Guion, Henderson, and to a lesser extent Brinkley. The Vikings simply didnt have that kind of young talent waiting in the wings on offense maybe outside of Brandon Fusco and Rudolph.
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milanb


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:


There were a bunch of young up and comers on defense like Robison, Guion, Henderson, and to a lesser extent Brinkley. The Vikings simply didnt have that kind of young talent waiting in the wings on offense maybe outside of Brandon Fusco and Rudolph.


Still, the fact of the matter is that six of the Vikings' last eight 1st and 2nd Round draft choices have been spent on offence. And yet the Vikings have been winning mostly with defence.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:


There were a bunch of young up and comers on defense like Robison, Guion, Henderson, and to a lesser extent Brinkley. The Vikings simply didnt have that kind of young talent waiting in the wings on offense maybe outside of Brandon Fusco and Rudolph.


Still, the fact of the matter is that six of the Vikings' last eight 1st and 2nd Round draft choices have been spent on offence. And yet the Vikings have been winning mostly with defence.


Very true. Something should be said to how good of a job Alan Williams is doing, relative to Pagac last year. Heck, even Frazier when he was the DC. This Vikings defense is much more creative and seems to be a more true reflection of a Cover 2 scheme in not allowing many big plays in the pass game.
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PurpleMugen


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest difference to me, actually, has been a greater willingness to play aggressively rather than extremely conservatively. The Vikings are blitzing at a respectable rate now, as opposed to merely rushing four and dropping every one else back. Aggression leaves the door open for some openings in the coverage, but more importantly, it creates chances to make momentum-shifting plays. That risk is worth it much of the time, and the Vikings are making use of that.
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milanb


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the big difference is better secondary play and gap discipline. They're really not doing anything terribly different schematically.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PurpleMugen wrote:
The biggest difference to me, actually, has been a greater willingness to play aggressively rather than extremely conservatively. The Vikings are blitzing at a respectable rate now, as opposed to merely rushing four and dropping every one else back. Aggression leaves the door open for some openings in the coverage, but more importantly, it creates chances to make momentum-shifting plays. That risk is worth it much of the time, and the Vikings are making use of that.


The Vikes appear to play more aggressively against run oriented teams like SF and Jax. Chances are, both of those teams were going to run the ball a lot so if you blitz your probably less likely to get burned in the passing game.

Against a pass heavy team like the Lions, the Vikings were extremely conservative. They blitzed less than 10% of the time against the Lions, whereas during the Jags, Colts and 49er games, there were noticeably more blitzes. I also think the Vikes are running a lot more Cover 3 than in other years, which could be due to the fact that the Vikes trust its CBs more. They dont necessarily need that extra Safety deep against every team.
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Dr LoveVikings


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems Alan Williams is getting the most out of our defensive backs. Harrison Smith appears to be a natural fit as the single-high safety in the Cover 3 scheme, so I am really warming up to the trade-up to get him. His presence on the field has been enormous. As for our other safety, some may think Jamarca is a liability, but I really like his physical presence in the secondary. The combination of Harrison and Jamarca clearly intimidated Calvin and Co. in the Lions game with their hard-hitting style. I like what I have seen from Josh Robinson thus far as well, but he needs more reps to add to his amazing closing speed (and WWF body slam technique). I have confidence in Chris Cook on the outside against pretty much any receiver, as well as Antoine in the nickel position. Our defensive backs in general are playing with swagger that we have been lacking for quite some time and if they can stay healthy, this long-time weakness could turn into a strength.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smith has actually spent more time in the box when MN goes to Cover 3, largely due to Mistral Raymond being an ineffective run defender. MN didnt run much of any Cover 3 against Detroit.

I wonder if things change with Sanford in the lineup, if he would be the in the box safety.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
Smith has actually spent more time in the box when MN goes to Cover 3, largely due to Mistral Raymond being an ineffective run defender. MN didnt run much of any Cover 3 against Detroit.

I wonder if things change with Sanford in the lineup, if he would be the in the box safety.

We actually ran quite a bit of cover three from what I've read. Chris Cook continuously dropped back as an extra safety.

I actually like what we are doing with our safeties. With Mistral Raymond back with Smith, Smith spent time in the box. With Sanford back there with Smith, Sanford spent time in the box.

We are actually attempting to use players strengths. Novel concept that I'm not used to here.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
Smith has actually spent more time in the box when MN goes to Cover 3, largely due to Mistral Raymond being an ineffective run defender. MN didnt run much of any Cover 3 against Detroit.

I wonder if things change with Sanford in the lineup, if he would be the in the box safety.

We actually ran quite a bit of cover three from what I've read. Chris Cook continuously dropped back as an extra safety.

I actually like what we are doing with our safeties. With Mistral Raymond back with Smith, Smith spent time in the box. With Sanford back there with Smith, Sanford spent time in the box.

We are actually attempting to use players strengths. Novel concept that I'm not used to here.


Right, Cook did play some deep Safety, but he was more of a "third" Safety than a fill in for one of the other Safetys. From what I recall, Sanford was in the box but got burned on that PI, and I dont seem to recall him being in the box much after that.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
rpmwr19 wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
Smith has actually spent more time in the box when MN goes to Cover 3, largely due to Mistral Raymond being an ineffective run defender. MN didnt run much of any Cover 3 against Detroit.

I wonder if things change with Sanford in the lineup, if he would be the in the box safety.

We actually ran quite a bit of cover three from what I've read. Chris Cook continuously dropped back as an extra safety.

I actually like what we are doing with our safeties. With Mistral Raymond back with Smith, Smith spent time in the box. With Sanford back there with Smith, Sanford spent time in the box.

We are actually attempting to use players strengths. Novel concept that I'm not used to here.


Right, Cook did play some deep Safety, but he was more of a "third" Safety than a fill in for one of the other Safetys. From what I recall, Sanford was in the box but got burned on that PI, and I dont seem to recall him being in the box much after that.

I know for a fact that on the third and one play, Sanford was in the box as he made the tackle short of the line, but you could be correct that he wasn't in the box that much.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Well on third and one I would always expect a safety to be in the box, that isnt a typical down, more of a short yardage situation.
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GoneWithTheWind


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Williams deserves some credit for the defense's improved play.

What I noticed is how much he's getting out of the DB's. Harrison Smith is absolutely lethal right now. Josh Robinson had a great pick and is playing welll overall. Sanford isn't great but he's been a lot better this year. The coaches seem to be doing a good job of playing to players strengths as well.

Lots of credit to go around hope we can keep this up. I don't want to get all hopeful only to get crushed in the end.
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