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Lets call it like it is, it's exactly what we feared.
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Spiel612


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree with the notion that we're contenders every year with Ryan. A head coach is inherently going to have a lot of input in front office decisions even if he shouldn't. And nor can you expect a team that lacks any sort of discipline on either side of the ball to succeed.

They are two extremes. One of them built the car, but couldn't rev the engine. The other revved the engine and then destroyed the car.

And as much as I would welcome a return to Mangini, or the Mangini philosophy, it's quite obvious that bouncing from one extreme to another is not going to work.
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Rockice_8


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
Davey wrote:
Probably one of the most alarming things to me is the fact that after having one of the league's most talented teams just two years ago we need overhauls on both sides of the ball in certain areas. We need three new starters at LB next season, a free safety, better quality at running back, better depth at receiver and a right tackle.


Not trying to troll though I'm sure it'll come across that way.

But what did you expect when you splurged on big name guys? There is a reason teams who try to maintain long term success always fail. Also constantly trading up in order to get gems like Sanchez. You need depth in the NFL, not just superstar names. The Jets are bone dry in depth at almost every position.



While depth is good lots of good teams don't have great depth as someone said the Pats sign PS guys for starters. The problem the Jets have is the star players are all hurt for 1 but they aren't in the most important positions.

Where is the star QB, RB, WR, pass rusher? We have great CB's which only go so far and 1 good TE (who isn't a complete TE anyway). Those other positions mentioned are far more important and way down the list in terms of talent on the Jets.

This is the first time I've been down on Sanchez but last week and this week he was more of the problem rather then his weapons letting him down. I think he gets one more year and same goes for Rex and Tanny. Then after 2013 we need to blow it up if things don't change.
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JetFanSince85


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not giving Mark a pass, but lets call it what it is.

This team has zero playmakers on the offensive side of the ball.

Thats all on Tannenbaum and Rex. Rex thinks he has the 2000 Baltimore D and only needs a QB to manage the game. That team also had Jamal Lewis who was a Horse.

When you draft a QB in the top 5 you draft players to help him.

When they brought in Edwards, it was a start then LT, then Holmes. What have we done since nothing. This team is dead in the water.
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kilahchris


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JetFanSince85 wrote:
I'm not giving Mark a pass, but lets call it what it is.

This team has zero playmakers on the offensive side of the ball.

Thats all on Tannenbaum and Rex. Rex thinks he has the 2000 Baltimore D and only needs a QB to manage the game. That team also had Jamal Lewis who was a Horse.

When you draft a QB in the top 5 you draft players to help him.

When they brought in Edwards, it was a start then LT, then Holmes. What have we done since nothing. This team is dead in the water.


The worse thing Tannenbaum has done was to let Thomas Jones and Leon Washington walk... a terrible move as the Jets was a team that was always centered around running the ball effectively. It comes as no suprise that when both RB are gone are running game is struggling. We cannot really blame the offensive line it is the same personel from 2010.

Mark Sanchez has peaked I do not see him ever becoming a top 5 franchise QB in this league. Right not he is not even top 10.

It is a shame because we placed alot talent around him, and I believe other QB like Jake Cutler, Aaron Rodgers, or even Matt Ryan would of taken us to the superbowl by now.
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Jetsfandan423


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kilahchris wrote:
JetFanSince85 wrote:
I'm not giving Mark a pass, but lets call it what it is.

This team has zero playmakers on the offensive side of the ball.

Thats all on Tannenbaum and Rex. Rex thinks he has the 2000 Baltimore D and only needs a QB to manage the game. That team also had Jamal Lewis who was a Horse.

When you draft a QB in the top 5 you draft players to help him.

When they brought in Edwards, it was a start then LT, then Holmes. What have we done since nothing. This team is dead in the water.


The worse thing Tannenbaum has done was to let Thomas Jones and Leon Washington walk... a terrible move as the Jets was a team that was always centered around running the ball effectively. It comes as no suprise that when both RB are gone are running game is struggling. We cannot really blame the offensive line it is the same personel from 2010.

Mark Sanchez has peaked I do not see him ever becoming a top 5 franchise QB in this league. Right not he is not even top 10.

It is a shame because we placed alot talent around him, and I believe other QB like Jake Cutler, Aaron Rodgers, or even Matt Ryan would of taken us to the superbowl by now.



To be fair, Jones wasn't really the same the year after we let him go. He was on the decline, so I have no problem letting him walk. Letting Leon go was a bit tougher for me, but he was coming off a serious injury and was going to be a free agent. We basically traded Leon and then picked up McKnight, who offers similar value in the return game, but obviously as a RB he just has never had the same impact as Leon did.

We over achieved a little bit in 2009, in 2010 we had a great group of talent and that was honestly my favorite Jets team. Such a shame we came up short against the Steelers. In 2011 we regressed on offense due to letting Braylon walk, and he was a huge part of our offense in 09 and 10, and replacing him and Cotch with Mason and Plax. Also it was clear LT just didn't have anymore left after a solid showing with us in 2010, and Greene never emerged as a true threat at RB. The defense was still good in 2011, but not up to the standards of 2009 or 2010.

Now this year, everything just seems like a mess after our Week 1 win against the Bills. Sanchez is who we all thought he was, he isn't a dynamic QB. He is a caretaker. And there is nothing wrong with that, as long as you surround those guys with talent. And our talent over the past 2 years has been getting depleted, especially on the offensive side. I will say though, Sanchez looked great in the first game, but since then he has just tapered off very badly. He was spot on in Week 1, but his accuracy is just lousy now. Even when he has time to throw he is completely missing guys. I was never one to say give Tebow a chance, but I never though Sanchez would actually play this bad this year. How many more games with Sanchez can we take if he still plays horribly?
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kilahchris


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colt45fool wrote:
green24 wrote:
But Mangini is the defender of our pride... Wink
Hahaha.

I always thought firing Mangini was a mistake, but I can't complain with Rex. If there's one thing Rex can do, it's coach a defense and despite Mangini being a defensive minded coach he was never able to field the dominant defenses that Rex put up. Rex can scheme his tail off and coach his butt off with the RIGHT personnel. We can't so quickly forget January 2011 when we beat Manning and Brady when no one gave us a fighting chance...or Rivers the year before. Do you guys really think Mangini wins those games? I don't think we'd have a shot in hell.

Mangini didn't deserve to be fired, but his defenses were middle of the pack. Bob Sutton as defensive coordinator was a horrible choice. Absolutely horrible.

Something that needs to be stressed is the RIGHT personnel. Rex has no business having input on the players that end up on this team. He just doesn't. The choices at first round picks the last few years have been devastating and it's showing now. Rex took a talented team...two talented teams to the AFC Championship Game that were built by Mangini. As soon as those moves started to wear off and Rex guys were brought in to cover the burdens (Jenkins, Woody, Faneca, Rhodes, etc. all leaving) the defense falls off and the offense gets even worse. I have to give credit where it's due: Mangini could build a team, but he could never scheme like Rex. Ever. Realistically this team could sit in mediocrity for years with a guy like Mangini as the head coach. With Rex I at least feel we have a fighting chance against any team. I really believe that, too.

What we really need is someone who can draft and put Rex in check. Someone to have him make the tough decisions. We always joke about Tanny being cold blooded, but Rex is just the opposite. We need someone to bench Schotty when he's out of control in his offensive game plans. These are things Rex should be taking care of, but he clearly cares too much about rustling his staff's jimmies. We need someone to tell Rex to shut the hell up when he wants to take a nickel corner in the first round, or back to back DEs...or 4th rounders at RB in back to back years that are no better than average. Someone that actually wants to go offense early on with our consistently mediocre offense so our young QB can't sit here and blame the position players for his lack of development. We need a real talent evaluator. Mangini had that ability. Rex doesn't. Give him the pieces though and we're a SB contender every year.



Mangini was a good disciplinarian but in my opinion a terrible gametime coach. He made terrible game decisions. Rex Ryan is far better when it comes to managing the clock, challenges, and making gametime adjustments. Mangini went to Cleveland as was no better there.

The main problem that has always been consistent with the JETS is Mark Sanchez. There is no way to make it or say it any prettier. Mark Sanchez is the cog that holds this team back.

From the time he took a safety in the end zone vs the Giants. Or even yesterday his fumbling the ball in 49er territory. Or him being ranked last in NFL completion percentage. The list goes on with the mistake of a draft pick. The man led the nfl in fumbles. He also had 18 interceptions to boot.

He is the most inconsistent QB I have seen in years. The only top ten QB picks that were worse than him his Jamarcus Russell.

Mark Sanchez time in NY is coming to and end soon.
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JetFanSince85


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go thru the list of QB that are top 10 in the league.

Then look at their Skilled position players,

Then Look at the RB position

Then look at how many game changing players they have.

I'll save you the bitter details. They have Multiple pro bowl/all pro players.

We have ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bottom line when you draft a QB you surround him with talent to help him grow.

When he had Bray, T. Jones, a motivated Santonio and Keller he did pretty well.

Look at it now, garbage. Instead of trading for TEBOW they should have brought in CEdric Benson, talked to the Jags about MJD. Called Edwards, Owens someone who would scare a team.

Woody is the Problem, 1/2 empty stadium, unsold PSL and 8mm under the cap how about you use it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Jetsfandan423


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JetFanSince85 wrote:
Go thru the list of QB that are top 10 in the league.

Then look at their Skilled position players,

Then Look at the RB position

Then look at how many game changing players they have.

I'll save you the bitter details. They have Multiple pro bowl/all pro players.

We have ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bottom line when you draft a QB you surround him with talent to help him grow.

When he had Bray, T. Jones, a motivated Santonio and Keller he did pretty well.
Look at it now, garbage. Instead of trading for TEBOW they should have brought in CEdric Benson, talked to the Jags about MJD. Called Edwards, Owens someone who would scare a team.

Woody is the Problem, 1/2 empty stadium, unsold PSL and 8mm under the cap how about you use it!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Well, Sanchez did well enough for us to make it to AFC Championship with those players. His actual numbers from 2009 were terrible, he threw like 12 TDs to 20 INTs. But, you give him the supporting cast we had back in 09-10 right now and he would be playing much better IMO.
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MP


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean you can look at Alan Faneca, ever since we let him go our offensive line has gotten progressively worse. Our running game has taken a big step back, we have 123 warrants out for Wayne Hunter's arrest for trying to get Sanchez killed. It also don't help that Ferguson seems to be regressing a bit, was abused yesterday. It sucked to lose Woody, he was a rock for us.

When we took Mangold/Ferguson we had hoped that this would never become a problem.
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Colt45fool


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spiel612 wrote:
I disagree with the notion that we're contenders every year with Ryan. A head coach is inherently going to have a lot of input in front office decisions even if he shouldn't. And nor can you expect a team that lacks any sort of discipline on either side of the ball to succeed.

They are two extremes. One of them built the car, but couldn't rev the engine. The other revved the engine and then destroyed the car.

And as much as I would welcome a return to Mangini, or the Mangini philosophy, it's quite obvious that bouncing from one extreme to another is not going to work.
I agree bouncing from one extreme to the other is a bad move, but that's why a guy like Tony Sparano is so good for our offense. If we have guys of both extremes even, knowing when to switch this team into high gear and when to slow, this team can work. Rex's philosophy works, but it has to be checked like everything else.
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Colt45fool


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JetFanSince85 wrote:
Go thru the list of QB that are top 10 in the league.

Then look at their Skilled position players,

Then Look at the RB position

Then look at how many game changing players they have.

I'll save you the bitter details. They have Multiple pro bowl/all pro players.

We have ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bottom line when you draft a QB you surround him with talent to help him grow.

When he had Bray, T. Jones, a motivated Santonio and Keller he did pretty well.

Look at it now, garbage. Instead of trading for TEBOW they should have brought in CEdric Benson, talked to the Jags about MJD. Called Edwards, Owens someone who would scare a team.

Woody is the Problem, 1/2 empty stadium, unsold PSL and 8mm under the cap how about you use it!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You can't just sit here and complain about the personnel around Sanchez. Good QBs have help as they develop, but when they do develop they make everyone better. If Sanchez was starting quality, a lot of our guys would play a lot better. Philip Rivers goes through wide receivers as often as Sanchez does and you don't see any complaints on that offense. The Steelers go through receivers and have had a shoddy OL for some time...no complaints from Roethlisberger. Sanchez playing as poorly as he has in his fourth season is just unacceptable. Plain and simple.

EDIT: I'm not saying the personnel around Sanchez has been great or consistent or whatever. I'm saying we should expect more from Sanchez at this stage in the game. Believe me, I've been highly critical of us not going offense in the first round of the past few drafts despite fielding a mediocre offense.
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Jamison.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MP wrote:
I mean you can look at Alan Faneca, ever since we let him go our offensive line has gotten progressively worse. Our running game has taken a big step back, we have 123 warrants out for Wayne Hunter's arrest for trying to get Sanchez killed. It also don't help that Ferguson seems to be regressing a bit, was abused yesterday. It sucked to lose Woody, he was a rock for us.

When we took Mangold/Ferguson we had hoped that this would never become a problem.
This is so true. As much as we didn't like his pass blocking, he was the glue to our offense.
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Steve the Dream


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we're underestimating the absence of Keller. He's the only guy who has spent all four seasons with Sanchez. They have more chemistry together than he does with anyone else. There's no denying he was bad this week. It seems as if he gets into a funk and just has trouble breaking out of it. The whole team just looked so deflated. We get 0 push up front for our backs, we run nothing to the outside and teams have no reason to fear our run game. When you have one threat at wide receiver, no Dustin Keller, and no running game it's hard to expect much.

Sanchez is not a quarterback who elevates those around him, plain and simple. But he has proven when the pieces are there he can play and play well. He's throwing the ball down the field better this season which I credit to Sparano.

The notion of playing Tebow is ridiculous. He is simply not a better quarterback than Sanchez, and Sanchez isn't even good right now. So we'd be going from bad to worse, which is the last thing we need. One thing we need to remember is that there's still 3/4 of this season remaining, plenty of time to turn things around. No we're not winning a Super Bowl and probably won't make the playoffs, but there's plenty of time for this team to improve.
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Spiel612


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jamison. wrote:
MP wrote:
I mean you can look at Alan Faneca, ever since we let him go our offensive line has gotten progressively worse. Our running game has taken a big step back, we have 123 warrants out for Wayne Hunter's arrest for trying to get Sanchez killed. It also don't help that Ferguson seems to be regressing a bit, was abused yesterday. It sucked to lose Woody, he was a rock for us.

When we took Mangold/Ferguson we had hoped that this would never become a problem.
This is so true. As much as we didn't like his pass blocking, he was the glue to our offense.


It comes down to thinking they could replace him with Matt Slauson. They saw an average talent with knowledge of the system play moderately well on the field.

And then they just sort of had to stick with him because we never had the ammunition to replace him. At best, you could argue they tried that with Ducasse, but I think Ducasse was brought in as the inevitable replacement for Woody and he continually bounced around the line because he couldn't find any success.
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quietjetsket


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets compare the note.

Losing Woody for Hunter but Woody had not found a field job since then.

Losing McKenzie for Jones (Fabini moved to RT). Since then McKenzie had played well.


"Losing Woody Sucks" certainly makes zero sense.
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