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Team has a lot of holes...
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bucsfan333


Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 28160
Location: the mitten
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottonatable wrote:
i say in the draft we continue to build with the defense and in the later rounds grab a TE AND QB...

I want pass rushers. Then I want pass rushers. Then I want some more pass rushers. McCoy is a monster in the middle. If we can keep guys fresh on the outside, it'll help hide our defincies in our secondary. That, and penetration ruins any and every play an offense can run.

Just for fun:

Foster has 7 tackles for loss this year.
David has 6 tackles for loss this year.

Those are fricken LBs. Imagine if we had more consistency than just McCoy...
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5nick5


Joined: 25 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
I think so many put so much heat on Schiano I've been seeing. Remember, Mike SUllivan and Bill Sheridan were not his first choice. If I remember correctly, we were denied by our 2 top options each OC and DC candidates before Sullivan or Sheridan were hired.

However, I think Sheridan has done a nice job. Yes, the Gaints game was suspect and he had some off calls, bc he's too aggressive.

Mike Sullivan is learning. I thought it was a good hire, but he's opened the offense up.

Also, before anyone disects this, yes the offensive play-calling has been inconsistant, but that has nothing to do with Josh Freeman's inability. His flaws are out side of the scheme, comfortability or not.


I was only able to watch the game through RedZone, but from what I saw Sullivan started to open it up and it began working. I'm starting to have more faith in him after reflection of the last game, but Sheridan is still too aggressive. He needs to understand the situation a little better.
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucsfan333 wrote:
scottonatable wrote:
i say in the draft we continue to build with the defense and in the later rounds grab a TE AND QB...

I want pass rushers. Then I want pass rushers. Then I want some more pass rushers. McCoy is a monster in the middle. If we can keep guys fresh on the outside, it'll help hide our defincies in our secondary. That, and penetration ruins any and every play an offense can run.

Just for fun:

Foster has 7 tackles for loss this year.
David has 6 tackles for loss this year.

Those are fricken LBs. Imagine if we had more consistency than just McCoy...

Yup. If we actually had more pass rushers on the line we could stop blitzing our safeties. We definitely need to build up our depth at DE.
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bucsfan333


Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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Location: the mitten
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing I totally bombed the spelling of deficiencies. I blame one-eyed typing.
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Caaddy24


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 5572
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As of now, I wanna go all offense the first 2 or 3 rounds... before the season I would have said all defense... but turns out Freeman needs even more weapons Rolling Eyes ... then grab some DBs mid rounds for some depth
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bucsfan333


Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 28160
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caaddy24 wrote:
As of now, I wanna go all offense the first 2 or 3 rounds... before the season I would have said all defense... but turns out Freeman needs even more weapons Rolling Eyes ... then grab some DBs mid rounds for some depth

It's all preferance. I'd prefer a defense that gives up ~20 points a game. And I'd expect our offense to beat that. As opposed to giving up 25+ a game and trying to beat that.
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Caaddy24


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
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Location: Houston
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucsfan333 wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
As of now, I wanna go all offense the first 2 or 3 rounds... before the season I would have said all defense... but turns out Freeman needs even more weapons Rolling Eyes ... then grab some DBs mid rounds for some depth

It's all preferance. I'd prefer a defense that gives up ~20 points a game. And I'd expect our offense to beat that. As opposed to giving up 25+ a game and trying to beat that.


I want our offense to move the damn football, and keep the defense off the field, and if we did that I think the defense would be fine with the players we have, aside from the DBs... obviously not be an elite top 5 defense, but good enough to get the job done
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7752
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caaddy24 wrote:
bucsfan333 wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
As of now, I wanna go all offense the first 2 or 3 rounds... before the season I would have said all defense... but turns out Freeman needs even more weapons Rolling Eyes ... then grab some DBs mid rounds for some depth

It's all preferance. I'd prefer a defense that gives up ~20 points a game. And I'd expect our offense to beat that. As opposed to giving up 25+ a game and trying to beat that.


I want our offense to move the damn football, and keep the defense off the field, and if we did that I think the defense would be fine with the players we have, aside from the DBs... obviously not be an elite top 5 defense, but good enough to get the job done


That's our main problem. The Offense isn't doing the defense any favors. The type of player RG III is, you need to keep him off the field as long as possible. 3 and outs will gas your defense having to chase around that little cry baby.
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bucsfan333


Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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Location: the mitten
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caaddy24 wrote:
bucsfan333 wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
As of now, I wanna go all offense the first 2 or 3 rounds... before the season I would have said all defense... but turns out Freeman needs even more weapons Rolling Eyes ... then grab some DBs mid rounds for some depth

It's all preferance. I'd prefer a defense that gives up ~20 points a game. And I'd expect our offense to beat that. As opposed to giving up 25+ a game and trying to beat that.


I want our offense to move the damn football, and keep the defense off the field, and if we did that I think the defense would be fine with the players we have, aside from the DBs... obviously not be an elite top 5 defense, but good enough to get the job done

I can agree with that. But if the opposing offense can maintain possession for as long as they do against us then damn.

It's the same argument we've always had: offense vs defense.

Keeping our offense on the field vs keeping our defense off the field. Points aren't exactly the issue this year, as our team has been within a score each game.
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SappDaddyDance


Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 540
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5nick5 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
I think so many put so much heat on Schiano I've been seeing. Remember, Mike SUllivan and Bill Sheridan were not his first choice. If I remember correctly, we were denied by our 2 top options each OC and DC candidates before Sullivan or Sheridan were hired.

However, I think Sheridan has done a nice job. Yes, the Gaints game was suspect and he had some off calls, bc he's too aggressive.

Mike Sullivan is learning. I thought it was a good hire, but he's opened the offense up.

Also, before anyone disects this, yes the offensive play-calling has been inconsistant, but that has nothing to do with Josh Freeman's inability. His flaws are out side of the scheme, comfortability or not.


I was only able to watch the game through RedZone, but from what I saw Sullivan started to open it up and it began working. I'm starting to have more faith in him after reflection of the last game, but Sheridan is still too aggressive. He needs to understand the situation a little better.


Exactly he is trying to hard to be Jim Johnson (RIP) but we don't have the personal (aka the secondary) or the proper scheme (i.e. Knowing how to mask the blitz) to actually be able to send those blitzes. It look as though Sheridan in those last two minutes showed why he only lasted one year in New York even with those great D-Line's that he had. He can't find the proper balance; he either over blitzes the safeties which leave our average to below average corners to have to cover with no support, or will call a deep zone that will allow a team to dink and dunk for big gains (see the Fred Davis 12 yard scamper).

also I'm very upset with the work of our secondary coach. Being that he was the same man that helped develop Patrick Patterson, and Mo Claiborne, why are our corners allowing receivers to get inside without linebacker help, we are constantly getting burned on inside routes too frequent for this to not be something that is not being corrected.
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RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4211
Location: PA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucsfan333 wrote:
scottonatable wrote:
i say in the draft we continue to build with the defense and in the later rounds grab a TE AND QB...

I want pass rushers. Then I want pass rushers. Then I want some more pass rushers. McCoy is a monster in the middle. If we can keep guys fresh on the outside, it'll help hide our defincies in our secondary. That, and penetration ruins any and every play an offense can run.

Just for fun:

Foster has 7 tackles for loss this year.
David has 6 tackles for loss this year.

Those are fricken LBs. Imagine if we had more consistency than just McCoy...


We'll likely get Bowers back around midseason or so, and next year Bowers and Clayborn will be back. Them plus Bennett makes for a pretty good rotation.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7752
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SappDaddyDance wrote:
5nick5 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
I think so many put so much heat on Schiano I've been seeing. Remember, Mike SUllivan and Bill Sheridan were not his first choice. If I remember correctly, we were denied by our 2 top options each OC and DC candidates before Sullivan or Sheridan were hired.

However, I think Sheridan has done a nice job. Yes, the Gaints game was suspect and he had some off calls, bc he's too aggressive.

Mike Sullivan is learning. I thought it was a good hire, but he's opened the offense up.

Also, before anyone disects this, yes the offensive play-calling has been inconsistant, but that has nothing to do with Josh Freeman's inability. His flaws are out side of the scheme, comfortability or not.


I was only able to watch the game through RedZone, but from what I saw Sullivan started to open it up and it began working. I'm starting to have more faith in him after reflection of the last game, but Sheridan is still too aggressive. He needs to understand the situation a little better.


Exactly he is trying to hard to be Jim Johnson (RIP) but we don't have the personal (aka the secondary) or the proper scheme (i.e. Knowing how to mask the blitz) to actually be able to send those blitzes. It look as though Sheridan in those last two minutes showed why he only lasted one year in New York even with those great D-Line's that he had. He can't find the proper balance; he either over blitzes the safeties which leave our average to below average corners to have to cover with no support, or will call a deep zone that will allow a team to dink and dunk for big gains (see the Fred Davis 12 yard scamper).

also I'm very upset with the work of our secondary coach. Being that he was the same man that helped develop Patrick Patterson, and Mo Claiborne, why are our corners allowing receivers to get inside without linebacker help, we are constantly getting burned on inside routes too frequent for this to not be something that is not being corrected.


I honestly can tell you: Without Clayborn, OLINE is going to be keying on McCoy and Bennett because they're our only threat, so I see why Sheridan is blitzing because Teo/Johnson and Roy Miller aren't really effective pass rushers.

Our secondary is average/young. To me, both Wright and Talib are #2 CBs whol like to Gamble. We really don't have a true #1 CB. Lets face it. Talib isn't a top 10 CB. He's in the 2nd tier and I honestly wouldn't mind if he walks and we give money to Bennett in the off-season.

Also, about our secondary, remember, most of them don't fit hte scheme. Guys like Biggers, Lewis, and Talib were brought in and mostly played Zone/Tampa 2 style defense. I think with our secondary, we rely a lot on the pass rush. WIth Clayborn out, it's difficult, unless Johnson steps up or Teo.

I can't really blame Sheridan there. He's trying to get to the QB.
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RoeKG


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ I thought Biggers looked pretty good, dropped INT aside.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoeKG wrote:
^ I thought Biggers looked pretty good, dropped INT aside.


I'll give him this: He was solid at times, did a nice job on covering the deep ball against Garcon on the 1 play, but I saw a few missed tackles and some soft coverage.

After watching him get abused in 2011, I have a hard time putting "Biggers and good" in the same sentence.
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YoungBucs15


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 3803
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SappDaddyDance wrote:
5nick5 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
I think so many put so much heat on Schiano I've been seeing. Remember, Mike SUllivan and Bill Sheridan were not his first choice. If I remember correctly, we were denied by our 2 top options each OC and DC candidates before Sullivan or Sheridan were hired.

However, I think Sheridan has done a nice job. Yes, the Gaints game was suspect and he had some off calls, bc he's too aggressive.

Mike Sullivan is learning. I thought it was a good hire, but he's opened the offense up.

Also, before anyone disects this, yes the offensive play-calling has been inconsistant, but that has nothing to do with Josh Freeman's inability. His flaws are out side of the scheme, comfortability or not.


I was only able to watch the game through RedZone, but from what I saw Sullivan started to open it up and it began working. I'm starting to have more faith in him after reflection of the last game, but Sheridan is still too aggressive. He needs to understand the situation a little better.


Exactly he is trying to hard to be Jim Johnson (RIP) but we don't have the personal (aka the secondary) or the proper scheme (i.e. Knowing how to mask the blitz) to actually be able to send those blitzes. It look as though Sheridan in those last two minutes showed why he only lasted one year in New York even with those great D-Line's that he had. He can't find the proper balance; he either over blitzes the safeties which leave our average to below average corners to have to cover with no support, or will call a deep zone that will allow a team to dink and dunk for big gains (see the Fred Davis 12 yard scamper).

also I'm very upset with the work of our secondary coach. Being that he was the same man that helped develop Patrick Patterson, and Mo Claiborne, why are our corners allowing receivers to get inside without linebacker help, we are constantly getting burned on inside routes too frequent for this to not be something that is not being corrected.


Different scheme combined with a much higher talent level in PP and MoCla compared to Talib and Wright.
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