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What position upgrade would yield the most improvement?
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What position and player
Cornerback
55%
 55%  [ 25 ]
OLine
8%
 8%  [ 4 ]
Dline
15%
 15%  [ 7 ]
Quarterback
6%
 6%  [ 3 ]
Secondary
13%
 13%  [ 6 ]
Running back
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 45

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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5264
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reddevil wrote:
Raidin wrote:
His cap hit will be $6.7m, if we have to pay that anyway he'll stick around.


Well that might change things. I have always tried to give McClain the benefit of the doubt, but he just doesn't look up for the challenge. Too many gaps in his game and just doesn't seem athletic enough to get it done.

I will say this though - he, like the majority of our front seven is a square peg in a round hole. If you look at each player and what their role should be on the team, you could say that not a single one of them is the right type of player for the scheme.

- Shaggy is a solid all rounder and stout against the run, but has little pass-rush ability: Plays at RDE - Should be LDE
- Houston is much the same as Shaggy but exaggerated even more so: Plays as LDE, should be a UT or along the front in a 3-4
- Seymour and Kelly are both the same player and neither can succeed when they play next to each other. Certainly not any more than on 3rd downs. It would be interesting to see them as ends in a 3-4 however.
- McClain is so limited speed-wise, that he can never succeed as MLB in a 4-3. To give him any chance of success, he has to play in a 3-4 next to someone with legs and bite.
- Burris and Wheeler have done okay, but are hardly setting the world alight.

Now I'm not advocating 3-4 per se, but it just seems like we are hampered by the fact that most if not all of our front 7 are not the right type of player for the position they hold.



We just don't have the talent to make up for a number of good-average players. Guys like McClain, Branch, Wheeler, Burris, Shaughnessy and Houston would all easily become starters on other teams in the nfl, most of them would be come very good players if they were put in the right position.

McClain hasn't been that bad, given up two TDs and a few plays here or there but nothing terrible. Certainly no worse than most of our players. He's noticable slow though and that's why people notice him.
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true2form


Joined: 01 Jan 2010
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Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still have to stick with CB as our biggest need over pass rusher(although a big need as well). I've just seen too many quick hitters by opposing teams because our CBs either can't cover or are playing to far off the WR to even give the pass rush time to do anything. I don't know how many times I've seen a rusher a half a second away from a sack on a 3 step drop dink and dunk type pass. We would need Usain Bolt to blitz with this coverage and he still might not get there.

IIRC Peyton completed maybe 3 passes that traveled over 15 yards through the air yesterday and a 23 yarder to Thomas was the longest, non-dump off and run completion of the game. Pass rush is non-existent because of the 3 step drop and dump it off. Heck, the only and I mean only deep pass we've given up this year was the 46 yarder to Meachem in week 1. That's when we had Bartell and Spencer. QBs don't even need to try to throw it downfield on us because we give them 8 yards if they catch it.

We would have aquite a few picks with good corners. We've dropped 3 or more so far. We would also get a coverage sack from time to time.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is geno really that good or is it the system/defense he faced.

i watched the game on sat where he had 8 td that shish was crazy
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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Tacos


Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Posts: 1171
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Is geno really that good or is it the system/defense he faced.

i watched the game on sat where he had 8 td that shish was crazy
Baylor has a terrible defense, he's still done well though. No one can complain about that beautiful deep ball, he's pretty smart, slides when running, and has played in a pro style offense before.

I don't want him in a WCO though, he plays in an air raid system and I think the WCO would be misusing him.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tacos wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Is geno really that good or is it the system/defense he faced.

i watched the game on sat where he had 8 td that shish was crazy
Baylor has a terrible defense, he's still done well though. No one can complain about that beautiful deep ball, he's pretty smart, slides when running, and has played in a pro style offense before.

I don't want him in a WCO though, he plays in an air raid system and I think the WCO would be misusing him.


he is having a great season, throws a real pretty ball and is accurate as hell.
i think he could play in a wco just the green bay type not the knapp type.
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22372
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Is geno really that good or is it the system/defense he faced.

i watched the game on sat where he had 8 td that shish was crazy


He's improved his accuracy deep and intermediate. Looks really nice throwing the ball.

Test is coming when they get into the teeth of their big 12 schedule w/ Oklahoma, Texas, etc. Right now, he's not seeing a lot of pressure and getting WRs open all over the place.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Is geno really that good or is it the system/defense he faced.

i watched the game on sat where he had 8 td that shish was crazy


He's improved his accuracy deep and intermediate. Looks really nice throwing the ball.

Test is coming when they get into the teeth of their big 12 schedule w/ Oklahoma, Texas, etc. Right now, he's not seeing a lot of pressure and getting WRs open all over the place.


ive never seen a college game/performance like that.
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Is geno really that good or is it the system/defense he faced.

i watched the game on sat where he had 8 td that shish was crazy


He's improved his accuracy deep and intermediate. Looks really nice throwing the ball.

Test is coming when they get into the teeth of their big 12 schedule w/ Oklahoma, Texas, etc. Right now, he's not seeing a lot of pressure and getting WRs open all over the place.


ive never seen a college game/performance like that.


Yeah. That game was insane. No defense. WV goes to Austin next week. They are pretty talented on defense. I'm interested to see how Geno looks breaking down their defense. Also see if he comes in overconfident after that performance. Assuming his arm is 100%. Imagine those numbers take a toll on the shoulder Laughing
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Is geno really that good or is it the system/defense he faced.

i watched the game on sat where he had 8 td that shish was crazy


He's improved his accuracy deep and intermediate. Looks really nice throwing the ball.

Test is coming when they get into the teeth of their big 12 schedule w/ Oklahoma, Texas, etc. Right now, he's not seeing a lot of pressure and getting WRs open all over the place.


ive never seen a college game/performance like that.


Yeah. That game was insane. No defense. WV goes to Austin next week. They are pretty talented on defense. I'm interested to see how Geno looks breaking down their defense. Also see if he comes in overconfident after that performance. Assuming his arm is 100%. Imagine those numbers take a toll on the shoulder Laughing


yea ill be tuned in. i thought he was just a spread guy like wv usually has but he looks like a legit qb
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


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TheAutumnWind


Joined: 18 Aug 2011
Posts: 246
Location: L.A.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Is geno really that good or is it the system/defense he faced.

i watched the game on sat where he had 8 td that shish was crazy


He's improved his accuracy deep and intermediate. Looks really nice throwing the ball.

Test is coming when they get into the teeth of their big 12 schedule w/ Oklahoma, Texas, etc. Right now, he's not seeing a lot of pressure and getting WRs open all over the place.


ive never seen a college game/performance like that.


+1 Geno is the real deal.

Crazy how he reminds me of Big Ben on his intermediate throws... but his deep ball is unmatched. Crazy how accurate he can be chucking the ball 40, 60 yards down the field Shocked

Ya, Baylor's defense was horrible but he had more td's than incompletions!!! Played a smart game, was pretty much perfect in his decision making and where he went with the ball and where he placed it for the receiver. And tho the D was bad he had a few throws that were just jaw dropping and could have him going #1 in next years draft depending on which team drafts first.

*The whole Mike Leach offensive system does worry me a little tho

Kinda hard to want a QB with our rd1 pick next year with how Palmer's been playing... Knapp aside... but dang Geno looks good! Very Happy
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing Geno does for me is make me salivate at the potential RG3-esque bonanza a trade would yield the Raiders! Could you imagine trading back (FOR ONCE) and still getting Milliner and picking up a '13 2nd & '14 1st?

btw where's Logan Thomas now? everyone's preseason heisman pick is hot garbage and stock is dropping like a rock.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
The only thing Geno does for me is make me salivate at the potential RG3-esque bonanza a trade would yield the Raiders! Could you imagine trading back (FOR ONCE) and still getting Milliner and picking up a '13 2nd & '14 1st?

btw where's Logan Thomas now? everyone's preseason heisman pick is hot garbage and stock is dropping like a rock.


hell yea except minus milliner

if ghoulston 2.0 was on the board in the 3rd (do we even have a third?) would you pick him?
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TheAutumnWind


Joined: 18 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
The only thing Geno does for me is make me salivate at the potential RG3-esque bonanza a trade would yield the Raiders! Could you imagine trading back (FOR ONCE) and still getting Milliner and picking up a '13 2nd & '14 1st?

btw where's Logan Thomas now? everyone's preseason heisman pick is hot garbage and stock is dropping like a rock.


Yup.. never saw what the hype was about. Geno on the other hand I think is a stud and will be something really special in League.

As for trading down... if were picking that high and the stars align to where we can get a king's ransom... man.. I would cry Crying or Very sad

I think we'll just barely win one too many games for that to be a reality tho...
I think Cle, KC, and probably now that Pagano has to step aside IND will be picking top 3... you can Add Tenn to that mix as well... with the exception of KC.. all those teams would probably be willing to trade down in order to get a king's ransom. Confused
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Dreadymatt


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
If the Raiders were to draft a MLB high in 2013 we'd all be complaining about how he's a drag down tackler or he's getting trucked or he can't stay healthy. Reason being is a year from now the Raiders will still possess the inability to keep LB's clean.

If the Raiders change their defensive front to a 34, while intriguing I have the same problem that I currently have with TK & Seymour. While I appreciate their abilities and contributions (outside of dumb penalties) individually there is too much money tied up in the same type of player (in Rich's & TK case 2 players who should not be on the field together except in passing situations).

I'm not going to even look it up but if you can name an ILB pair in a 34 that were both high 1st rounders I'll be surprised.


Agree. Seymour is gone next year. And I'd venture a guess to say Kelly as well if they find a vet guy to plug in.

Bryant right now looks the best inside. He need more playing time. He's out performing Seymour.
Co
As for the 'Houston inside where he belongs' crowd. The dude lost a bunch of weight. He's like 285 right now. He has no business inside.


As if 285 is so small that he can't add on at least 10 pounds during the off-season. He's naturally a +300lb guy. He weighed in at 305 lbs at the combine and tested like a freak. There's no question he can play DT.


Houston always looks to me like a UT playing at DE
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IdigtheRaiders!


Joined: 07 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Raidin wrote:
His cap hit will be $6.7m, if we have to pay that anyway he'll stick around.


McClain hasn't been right since the ankle and concussion. My concerns are more with his ability to stay healthy (especially behind a DL that can't keep him clean) with the chronic knee that required experimental injections of stem cells rather than his ability to play the game. Yet another example of why you don't draft a MLB with high draft picks. Anyone who would put Manti behind this dysfunctional DL obviously sadistically hate him.

Get your priorities straight. Even Teo would look bad in this defense. McClain is an exceptional large man with mobility, perhaps he could revive his career with a switch to a 34 OLB.


Was that at TC his rookie year? He's always been painfully slow and at times downright lethargic out there.

Saying he has mobility is laughable. He's a liability in pass coverage. TEs and RBs and just making him look stupid in space.

Apologize all you want for him. Make excuses. He's done nothing of value since joining this team. He sucks, period.

I agree however. You don't take a MLB that high in the draft. I like Te'o but not in the top 10-15 picks he'll likely go.



As much as I like Te'o, I too agree with that. We have bigger needs (on both sides of the ball) than LB.
That said, if McClain, Curry, and/or Wheeler all walk (and I hope we can keep Curry and Wheeler, but if we lose either of them + McClain), then LB suddenly becomes a rather large need unless the coaching staff is confident going forward with Burris and Goethel next season. But if Reggie is committed to drafting BPA and if Te'o is BPA when we're up in the first round, does Reggie still go for D-line or D-Back, or does he take an MLB who might potentially be the next Patrick Willis?
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