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Woodson or Jennings?
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 10398
Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ECPackers wrote:
fattlipp wrote:
is it just me, or like 4-5 time this year did GJ have a 1st down if he just dove forward, but instead tried gaining extra, put on a move..did a jump step backwards and fail to get the 1st?

That is as bad as a drop.


gah i HATE that SOOOO SO bad...

and it happens all the time...but its not just jennings



~anyone ever notice that we NEVER have big breakaway catch and runs? we used to, but now we just get like a 7-15yd pass, then insta tackle.


Teams are so scared of the Packers offense that they are playing deep shells constantly. We don't get someone isolated where they only have to beat their man for a big play. It's the same reason Benson has broken a few runs past the first level but the second level is playing so deep by nature that they are able to prevent him from breaking anything over 10 yards.
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GoPackGo


Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've noticed such a drastic decline in YAC. Watch Jordy Nelson yesterday. On nearly all the slants he caught, he immediately wraps two hands around the ball and dives forward to get as much as he can. Why not try to break a tackle and get a big gainer? I love the quick hit offense, but YAC isn't frowned upon, is it?
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rbens06


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 789
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Woodson or Jennings? Reply with quote

Jsitton71# wrote:
The best way to keep GJ on this roster is to let Woodson walk. Im the biggest chuck fan out there but to me chuck is not worth 10 mill per Yr.

He's not the 09, 10, Woodson and will never be again at this stage of his career. He can't run anymore, just relies on his instinks and experience. he gets beat alot and draws alot of holding penalties. And he hasn't been an effective blitzer since 2010.

To me he's hurting young guys like Williams, Shields and Burnett who try to mimic woodson by taking risks, instead of wraping up going for the sure tackle, aways going for the strip or int, ala Shields Williams on that 80 yard Td, Or the Gore Td run. Making too many mistakes trying to make the big play. Those guys will never be Woodson and the coaches need to get that though their brains.

On the other hand GJ is younger and our biggest weapon on offense. he's a top 5 WR. Love is attitude and charcter ala Driver. I don't think he'll break the bank. I say give him a V. Jackson deal and let this be chucks last season as a packer.


I agree that Woodson may not be worth the $10 million or so he is getting, but I still think he is worth a roster spot. He is one of, if the the, most intelligent defenders we have. He does get a lot of penalties, but really I do not think it is any worse then 2009 or 2010. Woodson is an aggressive corner that is going to make his man fight off the coverage. This does give way to more penalties, but it also reroutes receivers and gives our rusher that little bit of extra time. Also, before we cut loose a guy like Woodson I would want to make sure we have a guy to step up. Shields has been up and down in his brief career, Bush has not seized the opportunity, House has not stayed healthy, and Hayward is a rookie. I personally think we have good guys in the wings, but no one that has proven to be ready to be the next guy consistently. Ultimately I do not think Woodson's play has deteriorated to the level that he cannot play anymore.

As mentioned before, I look for a restructure first and if he refuses, which I am not sold he would, then you deal with the Jennings situation.
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PackFan4Life


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 4102
Location: De Pere, WI
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GoPackGo wrote:
I've noticed such a drastic decline in YAC. Watch Jordy Nelson yesterday. On nearly all the slants he caught, he immediately wraps two hands around the ball and dives forward to get as much as he can. Why not try to break a tackle and get a big gainer? I love the quick hit offense, but YAC isn't frowned upon, is it?


Not exactly, on a couple of his catches he was a hair away from getting loose. I believe it was the play that set up the Pack inside the red zone he was a desperation leg grasp away from the end zone. On his TD reception, he got the last 4 yards on his own with one guy on him and another hitting him at the stripe. It is not like the WRs are not trying to break tackles for the extra yards, they are just not always there.
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Dubyajay


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1701
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fattlipp wrote:
is it just me, or like 4-5 time this year did GJ have a 1st down if he just dove forward, but instead tried gaining extra, put on a move..did a jump step backwards and fail to get the 1st?

That is as bad as a drop.


Glad I'm not the only one that sees that stuff.
I agree with the sentiment that paying him a bunch of dough will be a mistake for the team. Kid is hurt a ton and I haven't seen that much out of him recently that I would shell out "#1" money for.

Like PF4L said, injuries don't become less frequent with age.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in the group where I don't think Jennings will be back. I just don't think his cost will be good value to our club.

Cobb will keep increasing his role.

I think we see a pass-catcher relatively high in the draft this year again.
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vang_evo9


Joined: 13 Aug 2011
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Location: Fresno, CA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, the YAC of our receivers really do suck! Nelson always falls down or runs out od bounds unless he's in the red zone or yards away from the td.

Woodson definitely needs a pay cut but he does deserve a roster spot. Jennings is an awesome player and teammate but unless they can afford him, he has to go.
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blankman0021


Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 1913
Location: MKE
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't want to start a new thread, so I'll post this question here...

Does Jennings' injury this season complicate the contract negotiation, or does it give us leverage in lowering his asking price for his next deal? Or both?

Currently he has 12 catches for 78 yards in 3 games. He's missed one game already and it sounds like he'll miss the Colts game in order to MAYBE be back up to near full speed for the Texans game.

That's not the kind of production you want from your #1, and it make it hard for us to invest in him if this injury lingers all year long...so do we invest in him?

Personally, as evidenced by Driver, I'm not so sure we let go of a good locker room presence over a few million dollars (which in NFL terms can be easily found under the cap by renegotiating other contracts, cutting low level players, etc). He's already being paid pretty premium money for a WR, but he's not being compensated on an elite level.
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IrishGreen


Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
I'm in the group where I don't think Jennings will be back. I just don't think his cost will be good value to our club.

Cobb will keep increasing his role.

I think we see a pass-catcher relatively high in the draft this year again.


me too. i just don't think he will be worth the money he gets ultimately. i think this will be driver's last year too ( Sad ).

i think we see a core of nelson - jones - cobb - boykin - draft pick next year. going to be very weird.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IrishGreen wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
I'm in the group where I don't think Jennings will be back. I just don't think his cost will be good value to our club.

Cobb will keep increasing his role.

I think we see a pass-catcher relatively high in the draft this year again.


me too. i just don't think he will be worth the money he gets ultimately. i think this will be driver's last year too ( Sad ).

i think we see a core of nelson - jones - cobb - boykin - draft pick next year. going to be very weird.


but will inevitably lead to our 3rd SB in 4 years.
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strat1080


Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 1892
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Woodson or Jennings? Reply with quote

Jsitton71# wrote:
The best way to keep GJ on this roster is to let Woodson walk. Im the biggest chuck fan out there but to me chuck is not worth 10 mill per Yr.

He's not the 09, 10, Woodson and will never be again at this stage of his career. He can't run anymore, just relies on his instinks and experience. he gets beat alot and draws alot of holding penalties. And he hasn't been an effective blitzer since 2010.

To me he's hurting young guys like Williams, Shields and Burnett who try to mimic woodson by taking risks, instead of wraping up going for the sure tackle, aways going for the strip or int, ala Shields Williams on that 80 yard Td, Or the Gore Td run. Making too many mistakes trying to make the big play. Those guys will never be Woodson and the coaches need to get that though their brains.

On the other hand GJ is younger and our biggest weapon on offense. he's a top 5 WR. Love is attitude and charcter ala Driver. I don't think he'll break the bank. I say give him a V. Jackson deal and let this be chucks last season as a packer.


Instinks? Really. Laughing
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Kampman74


Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man I was thinking about this for the last couple of weeks too. If Rodgers is elite, he doesn't need tons of weapons. Also we don't really use Jennings like a Fitz, Calvin or Moss "ratio". So is he just an expensive decoy? I mean Rodgers threaded the needle to him in the Superbowl, but usually Rodgers prefers the safer throw. I mean he takes the number one corner out of the game, but that will just be Jordys job next year. I also don't think that we would spend an early pick on a receiver, I mean we have so many now that they cannot all see the field right now. I think we spend early picks on oline and a RB. A running game will really open up the passing game. And finally if all of that holds try, I am calling it now, James Jones break out year!!! Wink
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I Am Rodgers


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kampman74 wrote:
Man I was thinking about this for the last couple of weeks too. If Rodgers is elite, he doesn't need tons of weapons. Also we don't really use Jennings like a Fitz, Calvin or Moss "ratio". So is he just an expensive decoy? I mean Rodgers threaded the needle to him in the Superbowl, but usually Rodgers prefers the safer throw. I mean he takes the number one corner out of the game, but that will just be Jordys job next year. I also don't think that we would spend an early pick on a receiver, I mean we have so many now that they cannot all see the field right now. I think we spend early picks on oline and a RB. A running game will really open up the passing game. And finally if all of that holds try, I am calling it now, James Jones break out year!!! Wink


Nope. Look at our WRs under TT. Cobb 2nd, Jordy 2nd, Jones 3rd, Jennings 2nd. We'll probably invest at least a 4th or higher if Jennings is not back. Driver will most likely not be back either because it doesn't make sense to keep Driver and get rid of Greg.
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Kampman74


Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Am Rodgers wrote:
Kampman74 wrote:
Man I was thinking about this for the last couple of weeks too. If Rodgers is elite, he doesn't need tons of weapons. Also we don't really use Jennings like a Fitz, Calvin or Moss "ratio". So is he just an expensive decoy? I mean Rodgers threaded the needle to him in the Superbowl, but usually Rodgers prefers the safer throw. I mean he takes the number one corner out of the game, but that will just be Jordys job next year. I also don't think that we would spend an early pick on a receiver, I mean we have so many now that they cannot all see the field right now. I think we spend early picks on oline and a RB. A running game will really open up the passing game. And finally if all of that holds try, I am calling it now, James Jones break out year!!! Wink


Nope. Look at our WRs under TT. Cobb 2nd, Jordy 2nd, Jones 3rd, Jennings 2nd. We'll probably invest at least a 4th or higher if Jennings is not back. Driver will most likely not be back either because it doesn't make sense to keep Driver and get rid of Greg.



But thats kind of it though. TT is great at finding WRs, oline and RBs not so much. Cycle through the WRs and pay the guys that you struggle to find. Just my two cents though.
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byzr


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woodson has definitely taken a step back, isn't as fast, and tends to be little to physical. That being said there still aren't many CBs that tackle, have the instincts, or can line up anywhere on the field like Woodson. how many years does he have left? i don't know but i want him around for his remaining years. his leadership is going to be a giant plus for our young developing secondary. that being said i don't see TT overpaying for him to many more years so if he doesn't want to take a pay i could see him out of Green Bay.

Jennings runs perfect routes and has great ability to the YAC. it's not the rarest of skill sets but he's been elite and drawn double coverage for the past couple years because of his production. he's probably going to want top dollar even if this season doesn't go well for him (injuries and double coverage keep his stats down). if he will a non top 3 contract offer i think we'll get him but if he's wanting top WR money i think he's out. not even sure that TT would tag and trade him. pretty different situation than Flynn but still not sure he'd risk it.
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