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phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: South Carolina
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViolentMonk71 wrote:
ovaw8lover wrote:
I still do not know what the issue is in pass coverage. I swear the Fins get pressure. I know it is difficult to cover receivers in the NFL with all the rules but it just seems there are openings everywhere. Perhaps the FIns need a safety that can cover a lot more field. I dont know but I know noone is running on that defense. My gosh Solai be holding it down in that middle. They have to try and keep Starks. That defensive front is legit. They just need some complementary edge rusher pieces to give fits to offenses more consistently.

Miami's offensive line is still too big to run the sort of offense Sherman and Philbin want. Our guards are not mobile enough. Its laughable to see Miami attempt a screen pass.

I am not sure how they can stomach drafting another tightend next year but they need one.


The front seven have been very good all year and had a nice breakout game in the pass rush, unfortunately is not enough to help the poor play by most of the DB's....I still think the Phins need to address CB, S and TE before WR...seeing what a player like Revis means to the Jets or what Gronk can do for the Pats....makes you wonder what can be....


I might just agree with this notion. The TE is going to effect our redzone offense and provide a quick outlet for Tannehill late in games. That might be more important than getting the next young Greg Jennings. Right now, we can move the ball up and down the field but not very effectively inside the redzone. That's the biggest failure of our offense. We need a player who can catch 8-10 TDs a year once the team gets inside the 10- or 15-yard line. We just don't have the size to make plays down there right now.

Right now, only half of our secondary is dependable. Sean Smith is not a #1 CB. I'm fine with him being our #2 if we get another option like Vontae Davis opposite him who'll provide the consistency that Davis couldn't.

I had high hopes for Clemons at FS but his has become maybe the worst spot on our defense, maybe on the whole team aside from Guard where we just can't do certain things because of physical limitation. We've seen absolutely 0 plays being made by Clemons when coming up and tackling someone behind the LBs or by playing back in coverage. Clemons hasn't done anything this year to make me happy.

Pieces that will fundamentally shift the team:
TE
FS

Positions that need help:
DE
CB
WR
G



The question is, where do you find each of those guys? Not many TEs go in the 1st round and for good reason. I don't mind drafting highly at the position but the chances of drafting a bust TE in the first should scare everyone. That's one of the most up-in-the-air type of positions scouts can evaluate. It's easy to look at a big guy on a pro-style offense in college like Detroit's Brandon Pettigrew (or last year's stand-out, Clemson TE Dwayne Allen) but those aren't the guys who come into the league and go to the Pro Bowl as receiving targets.

All too often, the TE you're really looking for is the developmental guy who you draft outside the 1st round and who after a few years becomes adept at his position. What might scare everyone is the notion that although we clearly could benefit from a great TE, we may have to accept a couple seasons with Fasano while guys like Egnew develop starting with limited-to-no reps in games before reaching his potential 2 or 3 seasons in.

Still, I'm definitely okay with adding talent that position. Clay should be doing more for us at this point I think or at least he should moving forward and over the course of the season. Plus, while he is fast, he's not really tall nor is he exceptionally hard to contain.

Sometimes you get Jimmy Graham's and sometimes you get Egnews. It can be really hard to tell the difference. With all the athleticism and ability available at DE, DB & WR I think those positions should stay as our primary needs in the first round. I want a TE but I don't think we should risk drafting TE in the first round. Those guys are usually over-hyped in college and are not the guys who break out at the next level.

Any game-changing FS's available this year in the 1st? That's the only other position I see completely altering how we look on the field. DE and WR would make us better no question but they wouldn't have the fundamental impact an elite FS would. And still, Guard is something we can address with our picks after the first round.

I think I would still go DE or WR in the 1st round unless I felt there was a Safety there who could change my defense.
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
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Location: santa rosa california
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You kinda hit the nail on the head about the TE spot. Alot of time its about developing the position. I have been quick on here to not give up on Egnew, only cause i see what guys like dennis pitta,james casey are doing now. I have said it a few times but jermicheal finly had 6 catches his rookie year and kyle rudolph of the vikes is now beasting after a slow start last year. I just have a feeling by week 10 or so you will see Egnew getting some action and seeing progress.
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JCool333


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Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This kind of game and last week- all you can say is experience and clutch play. We need more of both. Tannehill, Hartline, Bush, Wake, and Smith were all fantastic, but key mistakes cost us the game.
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Deadeye


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishfan4life wrote:
You kinda hit the nail on the head about the TE spot. Alot of time its about developing the position. I have been quick on here to not give up on Egnew, only cause i see what guys like dennis pitta,james casey are doing now. I have said it a few times but jermicheal finly had 6 catches his rookie year and kyle rudolph of the vikes is now beasting after a slow start last year. I just have a feeling by week 10 or so you will see Egnew getting some action and seeing progress.
I hope you're right, but the problem with Egnew in camp was that he couldn't separate. It's not like learning a new offense, it's a fundamental aspect of the job. How could we have used a third on a receiver that cannot separate?
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To play devils advacate because i am not saying if he can or cant but where did that come from? hard knocks? a local beat writer? i sure hope not a beat writer cause they said legedu was a beast. he used to run track put up a good 40 time and was very productive in college. If its what you saw then i will go with it but i just think like any young TE he was overwhelmed with the NFL game at first and it takes time. refining route running can help a player seperate if thats really what it is
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cddolphin


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
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Location: Gainesville, FL
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:
Deets wrote:
I'd like an elite tight end or receiver. Some kind of elite talent who is bigger and stronger then cornerbacks and has awesome hands.


I can easily see an OLB as our 1st overall pk but I would have no problem with a TE either.
Philbin can go out & target guys like Gregg Jennings in the 2nd - 3rd & 4th rnd all day long IMO.

I agree, a Playmaking TE in this Offense seems to be a bit more of a commodity.

sug


Why do you see OLB as a big time need? Burnett and Misi have been pretty damn good IMO.
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Warpticon


Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 1561
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadeye wrote:
fishfan4life wrote:
You kinda hit the nail on the head about the TE spot. Alot of time its about developing the position. I have been quick on here to not give up on Egnew, only cause i see what guys like dennis pitta,james casey are doing now. I have said it a few times but jermicheal finly had 6 catches his rookie year and kyle rudolph of the vikes is now beasting after a slow start last year. I just have a feeling by week 10 or so you will see Egnew getting some action and seeing progress.
I hope you're right, but the problem with Egnew in camp was that he couldn't separate. It's not like learning a new offense, it's a fundamental aspect of the job. How could we have used a third on a receiver that cannot separate?


I'm going to guess it's because in college, he was either too big or too fast for whoever was covering him, so it wasn't that important to run precise routes or have impeccable footwork--you know, the stuff that gets you open in the NFL.
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats what im saying and why i think he will be playing later in the year. the staff is developing his weakness.
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phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishfan4life wrote:
Thats what im saying and why i think he will be playing later in the year. the staff is developing his weakness.



You're exactly right. Time will tell with Egnew.


The thing people need to realize is that every TE like Egnew is a reach when they are drafted. Jimmy Graham, maybe the league's best current TE, was a reach when he was drafted.

Consider how bad a bust Egnew might be but how good Graham turned out to be and you see how it's worth the risk to take a shot with someone in the mid-rounds. Even if we do that again next year. Hitting at that position 1 time can produce more than a decades worth of production that completely changes the look and effectiveness of your offense.

Every good offense in the league has a very good, above-average, reliable TE. It's the same as taking a QB in the 1st round. You have to try and if you fail, you have to try again. The importance of the position mandates that you reach in the draft because of the potential upside available.

We're fast approaching a league where more than 2/3's of the top QBs are high 1st-round picks. The nature of the position can be blamed for that. TE is simply another scenario when the importance factor of the position will influence where these guys are being drafted. You'll see a lot of reaches, a lot of average guys and a lot of home-runs as well.

In reality, Ryan Tannehill didn't really deserve to be drafted in the 1st-round, let alone in the top-10 but the position he plays elevated him and made him considerably more desirable. While Egnew might seem a reach, you must consider that the same effect that boosted Tannehill is boosting Egnew.

We don't know what Egnew will be but you all have to understand why picks like him are important. The team knew that having a player like him, with his physical make-up would be important. We in this forum are saying this now about the TE spot in this offense but in reality the team knew that last year and acted on it. Philbin knew what he needed to have and he and Ireland made the decision to go after someone.

Ireland & Philbin are ahead of us. They know what they want and what they have more than we do. Time will tell with the kid but clearly to take Egnew as high as they did indicates to me that A) they think very highly of him and B) they think very highly of the position he plays.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
This Dolphins team, if they draft well, is 1-2 years away from being a legitimate contender in the AFC. No doubt in my mind you're on your way. Tannehill in that passing offense can be special. Good luck the rest of the way guys.

Only thing I will say is be careful how much you pay Jake Long. I thought he was terrible yesterday, personally. Not much push in the game aside from 2 plays that I remember well and he got burned 7-8 times off the edge. The Sam Acho sack, I actually felt bad for him. He didn't have a chance. If he's gonna want 30-40 million guaranteed I'd honestly let him walk.


I'd gladly resign him for 30-40 Mill .... that's like a 50% discounted rate ... Smile
It's the 50-60 Mill he is going to ask for that's got me hot n bothered.

sug
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen!!!!!
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cddolphin


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He may take a hometown discount. Other teams can see on film that he is playing injured and $40-50 million is nothing to scoff at.
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phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cddolphin wrote:
He may take a hometown discount. Other teams can see on film that he is playing injured and $40-50 million is nothing to scoff at.



And if after this whole season is over and done with and we're still talking about his not fitting this offense then it's safe to say a lot of the competition we anticipate being out there vying for Jake's services will have less interest, too.

Who doesn't run a ZBS now-a-days? Serious question, Who's going to look at Jake Long as a perfect fit if he doesn't fit here?

I said the Jets originally. Who else?
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bpastermack


Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 13122
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
This Dolphins team, if they draft well, is 1-2 years away from being a legitimate contender in the AFC. No doubt in my mind you're on your way. Tannehill in that passing offense can be special. Good luck the rest of the way guys.

Only thing I will say is be careful how much you pay Jake Long. I thought he was terrible yesterday, personally. Not much push in the game aside from 2 plays that I remember well and he got burned 7-8 times off the edge. The Sam Acho sack, I actually felt bad for him. He didn't have a chance. If he's gonna want 30-40 million guaranteed I'd honestly let him walk.


Many of us have said the same thing. His injury problems keep mounting and he is looking more and more average with every one.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
ovaw8lover wrote:
I still do not know what the issue is in pass coverage. I swear the Fins get pressure. I know it is difficult to cover receivers in the NFL with all the rules but it just seems there are openings everywhere. Perhaps the FIns need a safety that can cover a lot more field. I dont know but I know noone is running on that defense. My gosh Solai be holding it down in that middle. They have to try and keep Starks. That defensive front is legit. They just need some complementary edge rusher pieces to give fits to offenses more consistently.

Miami's offensive line is still too big to run the sort of offense Sherman and Philbin want. Our guards are not mobile enough. Its laughable to see Miami attempt a screen pass.

I am not sure how they can stomach drafting another tightend next year but they need one.


The front seven have been very good all year and had a nice breakout game in the pass rush, unfortunately is not enough to help the poor play by most of the DB's....I still think the Phins need to address CB, S and TE before WR...seeing what a player like Revis means to the Jets or what Gronk can do for the Pats....makes you wonder what can be....


I might just agree with this notion. The TE is going to effect our redzone offense and provide a quick outlet for Tannehill late in games. That might be more important than getting the next young Greg Jennings. Right now, we can move the ball up and down the field but not very effectively inside the redzone. That's the biggest failure of our offense. We need a player who can catch 8-10 TDs a year once the team gets inside the 10- or 15-yard line. We just don't have the size to make plays down there right now.

Right now, only half of our secondary is dependable. Sean Smith is not a #1 CB. I'm fine with him being our #2 if we get another option like Vontae Davis opposite him who'll provide the consistency that Davis couldn't.

I had high hopes for Clemons at FS but his has become maybe the worst spot on our defense, maybe on the whole team aside from Guard where we just can't do certain things because of physical limitation. We've seen absolutely 0 plays being made by Clemons when coming up and tackling someone behind the LBs or by playing back in coverage. Clemons hasn't done anything this year to make me happy.

Pieces that will fundamentally shift the team:
TE
FS

Positions that need help:
DE
CB
WR
G



The question is, where do you find each of those guys? Not many TEs go in the 1st round and for good reason. I don't mind drafting highly at the position but the chances of drafting a bust TE in the first should scare everyone. That's one of the most up-in-the-air type of positions scouts can evaluate. It's easy to look at a big guy on a pro-style offense in college like Detroit's Brandon Pettigrew (or last year's stand-out, Clemson TE Dwayne Allen) but those aren't the guys who come into the league and go to the Pro Bowl as receiving targets.

All too often, the TE you're really looking for is the developmental guy who you draft outside the 1st round and who after a few years becomes adept at his position. What might scare everyone is the notion that although we clearly could benefit from a great TE, we may have to accept a couple seasons with Fasano while guys like Egnew develop starting with limited-to-no reps in games before reaching his potential 2 or 3 seasons in.

Still, I'm definitely okay with adding talent that position. Clay should be doing more for us at this point I think or at least he should moving forward and over the course of the season. Plus, while he is fast, he's not really tall nor is he exceptionally hard to contain.

Sometimes you get Jimmy Graham's and sometimes you get Egnews. It can be really hard to tell the difference. With all the athleticism and ability available at DE, DB & WR I think those positions should stay as our primary needs in the first round. I want a TE but I don't think we should risk drafting TE in the first round. Those guys are usually over-hyped in college and are not the guys who break out at the next level.

Any game-changing FS's available this year in the 1st? That's the only other position I see completely altering how we look on the field. DE and WR would make us better no question but they wouldn't have the fundamental impact an elite FS would. And still, Guard is something we can address with our picks after the first round.

I think I would still go DE or WR in the 1st round unless I felt there was a Safety there who could change my defense.


The difference is you find a guy who isn't just big and fast. He needs to have quickness out of his breaks too. Egnew doesn't have that, which is why he will never make it in the NFL and why I didn't want him in the draft. He is nothing more than a guy who is fast for his size. He is a straight line runner.
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