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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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 Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:20 am Post subject: |
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I still like where this team is heading and I like our coaching staff. But lets remember, missing Adrian Clayborn is a huge blow. It seemed like Washington the whole game ran away from McCoy and Bennetts side. That's how important Clayborn is. Nothing against Johnson nor Teo, it was there first live action in an NFL Game pretty much and I'll give them a pass, as they were OK, but they're not Clayborn.
We lack depth at key positions on this team so at the start of the season, we pretty much had to hope no injuries occured at the DLINE nor OLINE positions bc we were paper thin behind our starters.
We have a Rookie calling our defense in Lavonte David, and he's doing a heck of a job at doing it, but he's going to make mistakes because, he's a rookie.
Bucs are still a young team, and still going to make mistakes, but hte talent is there. I like the WR core.
My problem is Josh Freeman still hasn't put it together and I'll leave it at that. He is an ENIGMA. Today, if he was the QB that most fans on here think he is, we would win this game . He just needed to be solid. He was worse. He needed to have a good game against this putrid secondary. He didn't. He should have been kissing Mike Williams for that save at the end bc I thought that ball was picked and basically almost tossed my beer at the TV wondering what the hell he saw iwth that throw. ? |
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eggybucsfan31
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:23 am Post subject: |
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If we finish bottom 5 again, do we go for a QB?
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| eggybucsfan31 wrote: | | If we finish bottom 5 again, do we go for a QB? |
I think we have to. |
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bucsfan333
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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Location: mike23md on the sig
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| REDandPEWTER wrote: | I still like where this team is heading and I like our coaching staff. But lets remember, missing Adrian Clayborn is a huge blow. It seemed like Washington the whole game ran away from McCoy and Bennetts side. That's how important Clayborn is. Nothing against Johnson nor Teo, it was there first live action in an NFL Game pretty much and I'll give them a pass, as they were OK, but they're not Clayborn.
We lack depth at key positions on this team so at the start of the season, we pretty much had to hope no injuries occured at the DLINE nor OLINE positions bc we were paper thin behind our starters.
We have a Rookie calling our defense in Lavonte David, and he's doing a heck of a job at doing it, but he's going to make mistakes because, he's a rookie.
Bucs are still a young team, and still going to make mistakes, but hte talent is there. I like the WR core.
My problem is Josh Freeman still hasn't put it together and I'll leave it at that. He is an ENIGMA. Today, if he was the QB that most fans on here think he is, we would win this game . He just needed to be solid. He was worse. He needed to have a good game against this putrid secondary. He didn't. He should have been kissing Mike Williams for that save at the end bc I thought that ball was picked and basically almost tossed my beer at the TV wondering what the hell he saw iwth that throw. ? |
I agree with all of this except the last paragraph.
Depth is a HUGE concern. Especially along the defensive line.
We ARE rebuilding.
We DO have a rookie coaching staff.
I refuse to totally blame Free when the rest of the team has shown just as many lapses in playcalling/execution. And I have no desire to defend Free. I've stated if he sucks, he's gone. But he simply isn't the ONLY or even the BIGGEST problem with our team. We've got a few pieces missing. At this rate, I don't know if we'll be serious contenders next year. We may be a couple years removed from the playoffs.
We CAN be dominant in every phase of the game. We just can't combine the performances, and we can't do any of it consistently.
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bucsfan333
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| REDandPEWTER wrote: | | eggybucsfan31 wrote: | | If we finish bottom 5 again, do we go for a QB? |
I think we have to. |
Absolutely. But we've proven to be just good enough that we shouldn't be picking that high.
A new coaching staff almost always equates to a new signal caller. Every head coach wants their guy.
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 11222
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| bucsfan333 wrote: | | REDandPEWTER wrote: | I still like where this team is heading and I like our coaching staff. But lets remember, missing Adrian Clayborn is a huge blow. It seemed like Washington the whole game ran away from McCoy and Bennetts side. That's how important Clayborn is. Nothing against Johnson nor Teo, it was there first live action in an NFL Game pretty much and I'll give them a pass, as they were OK, but they're not Clayborn.
We lack depth at key positions on this team so at the start of the season, we pretty much had to hope no injuries occured at the DLINE nor OLINE positions bc we were paper thin behind our starters.
We have a Rookie calling our defense in Lavonte David, and he's doing a heck of a job at doing it, but he's going to make mistakes because, he's a rookie.
Bucs are still a young team, and still going to make mistakes, but hte talent is there. I like the WR core.
My problem is Josh Freeman still hasn't put it together and I'll leave it at that. He is an ENIGMA. Today, if he was the QB that most fans on here think he is, we would win this game . He just needed to be solid. He was worse. He needed to have a good game against this putrid secondary. He didn't. He should have been kissing Mike Williams for that save at the end bc I thought that ball was picked and basically almost tossed my beer at the TV wondering what the hell he saw iwth that throw. ? |
I agree with all of this except the last paragraph.
Depth is a HUGE concern. Especially along the defensive line.
We ARE rebuilding.
We DO have a rookie coaching staff.
I refuse to totally blame Free when the rest of the team has shown just as many lapses in playcalling/execution. And I have no desire to defend Free. I've stated if he sucks, he's gone. But he simply isn't the ONLY or even the BIGGEST problem with our team. We've got a few pieces missing. At this rate, I don't know if we'll be serious contenders next year. We may be a couple years removed from the playoffs.
We CAN be dominant in every phase of the game. We just can't combine the performances, and we can't do any of it consistently. |
That comes with time and experience. Team's still young as long as the staff.
However, without a competitant QB, then it'll take longer. I really thought at half-time Freeman should have been benched. I know Orlovsky is terrible, but something to light a fire under this guy. Freeman has no excuses this year. Last year many complained "No Weapons>" We got him them. We got him protection. Got him a Running Game. Got him ELI MANNING AND PEYTON MANNINGS Past QB coaches to run the offense and coach him up.
The excuses of playcalling are bogus. No OC or DC calls a perfect game. There will always be a bad call here and there. Sheridan called a very good game. Freeman was lost the entire 1st half and the beginning of the 2nd half. For going against the worst defense in the league, he played decent from mid 3rd qtr through the 4th. But some here are reading to far into it.
AGAIN, I feel like a broken record, but you fail to see he threw the game away almost with that throw to Williams. He's got terrible instincts, intangibles, and vision. He never looks away from his first read. |
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 11222
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| bucsfan333 wrote: | | REDandPEWTER wrote: | | eggybucsfan31 wrote: | | If we finish bottom 5 again, do we go for a QB? |
I think we have to. |
Absolutely. But we've proven to be just good enough that we shouldn't be picking that high.
A new coaching staff almost always equates to a new signal caller. Every head coach wants their guy. |
The difference between being 1-3 to 4--0 or even 3-1....Josh Freeman. Sorry to upset you with the truth. |
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bucsfan333
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 38088
Location: mike23md on the sig
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| REDandPEWTER wrote: | | bucsfan333 wrote: | | REDandPEWTER wrote: | | eggybucsfan31 wrote: | | If we finish bottom 5 again, do we go for a QB? |
I think we have to. |
Absolutely. But we've proven to be just good enough that we shouldn't be picking that high.
A new coaching staff almost always equates to a new signal caller. Every head coach wants their guy. |
The difference between being 1-3 to 4--0 or even 3-1....Josh Freeman. Sorry to upset you with the truth. |
The difference falls on the entire team, not just Freeman. We were a big play from any aspect of the game away from winning any of our losses.
If our offense made a couple more first downs....
If our defense made a couple more stops....
If our special teams gave us better field position....
There's absolutely no way Freeman is the reason we lost all three games by a single score. Absolutely not.
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tml_gogo
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 14183
Location: Montréal
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| bucsfan333 wrote: |
There's absolutely no way Freeman is the reason we lost all three games by a single score. Absolutely not. |
I agree that he isn't the sole reason we lost at individual points in the game, but yes, he is the main reason overall.
Last game our defense played spectacular, and Freeman had 30 yards passing late in the 4th quarter. If our offense could have mustered up 10 points, we would have won the game. Is it ALL on Freeman? Of course not, but when do you really see an NFL quarterback throw for 30 yards for a whole game? He was worst-quarterback-in-the-league dreadful that game where a below average performance could have won us that game.
So, is it all his fault? Of course not, but he has had the biggest influence by far.
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bucsfan333
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 38088
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| REDandPEWTER wrote: | | bucsfan333 wrote: | | REDandPEWTER wrote: | I still like where this team is heading and I like our coaching staff. But lets remember, missing Adrian Clayborn is a huge blow. It seemed like Washington the whole game ran away from McCoy and Bennetts side. That's how important Clayborn is. Nothing against Johnson nor Teo, it was there first live action in an NFL Game pretty much and I'll give them a pass, as they were OK, but they're not Clayborn.
We lack depth at key positions on this team so at the start of the season, we pretty much had to hope no injuries occured at the DLINE nor OLINE positions bc we were paper thin behind our starters.
We have a Rookie calling our defense in Lavonte David, and he's doing a heck of a job at doing it, but he's going to make mistakes because, he's a rookie.
Bucs are still a young team, and still going to make mistakes, but hte talent is there. I like the WR core.
My problem is Josh Freeman still hasn't put it together and I'll leave it at that. He is an ENIGMA. Today, if he was the QB that most fans on here think he is, we would win this game . He just needed to be solid. He was worse. He needed to have a good game against this putrid secondary. He didn't. He should have been kissing Mike Williams for that save at the end bc I thought that ball was picked and basically almost tossed my beer at the TV wondering what the hell he saw iwth that throw. ? |
I agree with all of this except the last paragraph.
Depth is a HUGE concern. Especially along the defensive line.
We ARE rebuilding.
We DO have a rookie coaching staff.
I refuse to totally blame Free when the rest of the team has shown just as many lapses in playcalling/execution. And I have no desire to defend Free. I've stated if he sucks, he's gone. But he simply isn't the ONLY or even the BIGGEST problem with our team. We've got a few pieces missing. At this rate, I don't know if we'll be serious contenders next year. We may be a couple years removed from the playoffs.
We CAN be dominant in every phase of the game. We just can't combine the performances, and we can't do any of it consistently. |
That comes with time and experience. Team's still young as long as the staff.
However, without a competitant QB, then it'll take longer. I really thought at half-time Freeman should have been benched. I know Orlovsky is terrible, but something to light a fire under this guy. Freeman has no excuses this year. Last year many complained "No Weapons>" We got him them. We got him protection. Got him a Running Game. Got him ELI MANNING AND PEYTON MANNINGS Past QB coaches to run the offense and coach him up.
The excuses of playcalling are bogus. No OC or DC calls a perfect game. There will always be a bad call here and there. Sheridan called a very good game. Freeman was lost the entire 1st half and the beginning of the 2nd half. For going against the worst defense in the league, he played decent from mid 3rd qtr through the 4th. But some here are reading to far into it.
AGAIN, I feel like a broken record, but you fail to see he threw the game away almost with that throw to Williams. He's got terrible instincts, intangibles, and vision. He never looks away from his first read. |
A new scheme sounds like at least a half decent excuse. So does new weapons that haven't gotten their timing with Free down, as well are also learning a new scheme.
We can't just expect magic overnight.
Free HAS made bad throws.
He seems to have made some bad reads.
He HAS missed some open guys.
But he deserves more than four games. I don't know if it's him or the playcalling. There's no way you can either. He seems to show glimpses of being a VERY competant, dominating QB. He just seems to be VERY pedestrain in the other half.
Can you differentiate between the playcalling/recievers' incompetence/QB skill/inexperience on EVERY play?
And the "checkdowns" that seem to happen on fourth down can't always be used against Free. Sometimes the big play just isn't there and you HAVE to settle for giving a guy a chance.
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bucsfan333
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 38088
Location: mike23md on the sig
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| tml_gogo wrote: | | bucsfan333 wrote: |
There's absolutely no way Freeman is the reason we lost all three games by a single score. Absolutely not. |
I agree that he isn't the sole reason we lost at individual points in the game, but yes, he is the main reason overall.
Last game our defense played spectacular, and Freeman had 30 yards passing late in the 4th quarter. If our offense could have mustered up 10 points, we would have won the game. Is it ALL on Freeman? Of course not, but when do you really see an NFL quarterback throw for 30 yards for a whole game? He was worst-quarterback-in-the-league dreadful that game where a below average performance could have won us that game.
So, is it all his fault? Of course not, but he has had the biggest influence by far. |
He was horrid against the Boys, no doubt. But to say he was the sole reason we lost? Eh. Look at our running game. If Witten catches ANY of his drops... Our pass defense sorta stepped up (in terms of what we're used to this year). But I mean, we're far from a complete team. And I don't see how Freeman can be the guy we place the majority of the blame on. If we're 3-1 and Free has the same numbers, but Martin or even the defense made that extra play each week to win, do we even have this discussion? Do you all want Orlovsky () to start? Honestly?
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eggybucsfan31
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 10364
Location: Westerly RI
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:22 am Post subject: |
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As a whole, this game hurts more than the Giants game for me. With the way our defense was playing against NY, them coming back was not that surprising. To come back and have it ripped away at the end really hurts, especially since if that FG was 1 yard longer it would have been wide left and Cundiff would be watching the Redskins with me.
Also since when does a rookie get roughing the passer calls? (and "Carrying and driving" calls? LOL.) Freeman's been hit much worse than Foster on RGPee and never gets a call. Thankfully neither of those calls led to points or I wouldn't have a TV.
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bucsfan333
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 38088
Location: mike23md on the sig
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| eggybucsfan31 wrote: | | Also since when does a rookie get roughing the passer calls? (and "Carrying and driving" calls? LOL.) Freeman's been hit much worse than Foster on RGPee and never gets a call. Thankfully neither of those calls led to points or I wouldn't have a TV. |
That was such a bogus call. They mised the FG, but a third and long would've been MUCH better.
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eggybucsfan31
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 10364
Location: Westerly RI
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:33 am Post subject: |
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ZOMG what was I thinking about drafting a QB!?!?!
....Some certain QB in New York is struggling right now......
We're saved.
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DaRealdeal
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 9614
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| REDandPEWTER wrote: | That comes with time and experience. Team's still young as long as the staff.
However, without a competitant QB, then it'll take longer. I really thought at half-time Freeman should have been benched. I know Orlovsky is terrible, but something to light a fire under this guy. Freeman has no excuses this year. Last year many complained "No Weapons>" We got him them. We got him protection. Got him a Running Game. Got him ELI MANNING AND PEYTON MANNINGS Past QB coaches to run the offense and coach him up.
The excuses of playcalling are bogus. No OC or DC calls a perfect game. There will always be a bad call here and there. Sheridan called a very good game. Freeman was lost the entire 1st half and the beginning of the 2nd half. For going against the worst defense in the league, he played decent from mid 3rd qtr through the 4th. But some here are reading to far into it.
AGAIN, I feel like a broken record, but you fail to see he threw the game away almost with that throw to Williams. He's got terrible instincts, intangibles, and vision. He never looks away from his first read. |
Decent? In the 2nd half this is what he did...
11/17 (64.7% completions)
212 yards passing (12.47 YPA)
1 TD/0 INT
127.57 QB Rating
It's obnoxious to call THAT 'decent'.
You can rip apart his play in the 1st half and it's completely warranted, I'm right there with you, but to not give credit where credit is due reeks of bias.
He played great in the 2nd half, but ultimately it was too little too late. His first half was awful. |
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