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CWood21
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 34996
Location: 'Merica
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 Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| palmy50 wrote: | Your talking about a HOF RB there. Very few have the ability to excel no matter fit at the pro level when it comes to the skills positions. Being able to play the fit is much different than being able excel in it. Clearly the position at hand plays a huge part here as well. You could be a truly elite man CB with no feel for zone. You could be a special West Coast QB that lacks the arm to pull a vertical fit.
I'll take the fit over the talent every time and I'm not alone there by any means.
Now, the non skills are a bit different. The good ones will find a way to win more times than not. I'm not saying you can have an insane position/fit difference. But odds are high you can find a good home for any non skills no matter fit. |
I don't disagree one bit about fits being an important part, but cornerback is arguably the hardest position to play on the field because it requires such a precise kind of athlete. I'd much rather take a corner whose got the prototypical size/speed ratio, but completely green in terms of development over an undersized/slow cornerback whose got perfect technique and understanding of defenses.
EDIT: Part of the reason I was so high on Davon House. Great size/speed ratio with a nose for the ball, but poor technique. |
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Kampman74
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 6784
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Who are the top RBs this year guys? Also any good Centers?
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I Am Rodgers
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 7125
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Kampman74 wrote: | | Who are the top RBs this year guys? Also any good Centers? |
Marcus Lattimore
Andre Ellington
Stepfan Taylor
Eddie Lacy
Centers:
Barrett Jones
Khaled Holmes
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| stallyns wrote: | | Good thing for talky-talk Harbaugh he has an outstanding citizen/player like Aldon Smith on his team and not a classless hooligan like Clay Matthews. |
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Kampman74
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 6784
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you!!!
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PossibleCabbage
Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Posts: 3285
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I Am Rodgers wrote: | | Kampman74 wrote: | | Who are the top RBs this year guys? Also any good Centers? |
Marcus Lattimore
Andre Ellington
Stepfan Taylor
Eddie Lacy
Centers:
Barrett Jones
Khaled Holmes |
Ellington is definitely not a target for us, since he's tiny (he's listed at 5-9 195, and he definitely looks smaller than that). Plus he's got that old "nobody from Clemson can play in the NFL" thing going for him.
The other three are fine choices were you going to assign one to the Packers. |
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I Am Rodgers
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 7125
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| PossibleCabbage wrote: | | I Am Rodgers wrote: | | Kampman74 wrote: | | Who are the top RBs this year guys? Also any good Centers? |
Marcus Lattimore
Andre Ellington
Stepfan Taylor
Eddie Lacy
Centers:
Barrett Jones
Khaled Holmes |
Ellington is definitely not a target for us, since he's tiny (he's listed at 5-9 195, and he definitely looks smaller than that). Plus he's got that old "nobody from Clemson can play in the NFL" thing going for him.
The other three are fine choices were you going to assign one to the Packers. |
Just named some top RBs off the top of my head. Not necessarily fits for us.
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| stallyns wrote: | | Good thing for talky-talk Harbaugh he has an outstanding citizen/player like Aldon Smith on his team and not a classless hooligan like Clay Matthews. |
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MNPackfan32
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 7819
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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As far as RB's go, I'm not sure really how Lacey is so highly regarded. Runs behind possibly the best run blocking line and is not even the best RB on the team. With all the talk about scheme fits, Knile Davis has to be mentioned. I just hope he can stay healthy because that kid could be fun to watch in a ZBS.
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| Duff Man wrote: | | MNPackfan32 wrote: | | Josh Sitton, Mike Daniels |
Average at best |
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PossibleCabbage
Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Posts: 3285
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I Am Rodgers wrote: |
Just named some top RBs off the top of my head. Not necessarily fits for us. |
Fair enough. It's also noteworthy that preseason Packer fan favorite RB target Knile Davis has looked pretty terrible this season. More than anything else, he's been incredibly hesitant in the backfield which is the exact opposite of what you want in a zone running scheme. |
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I Am Rodgers
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 7125
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| PossibleCabbage wrote: | | I Am Rodgers wrote: |
Just named some top RBs off the top of my head. Not necessarily fits for us. |
Fair enough. It's also noteworthy that preseason Packer fan favorite RB target Knile Davis has looked pretty terrible this season. More than anything else, he's been incredibly hesitant in the backfield which is the exact opposite of what you want in a zone running scheme. |
I really don't want us to use a high pick on a RB. I just want us to throw a bunch of low picks and UDFA and see what sticks. With the short career, no point in investing something high in one. Plus, plenty of talent around the league is late picks. Bolden, Morris, Foster, etc.
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| stallyns wrote: | | Good thing for talky-talk Harbaugh he has an outstanding citizen/player like Aldon Smith on his team and not a classless hooligan like Clay Matthews. |
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palmy50
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13857
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| CWood21 wrote: | | palmy50 wrote: | Your talking about a HOF RB there. Very few have the ability to excel no matter fit at the pro level when it comes to the skills positions. Being able to play the fit is much different than being able excel in it. Clearly the position at hand plays a huge part here as well. You could be a truly elite man CB with no feel for zone. You could be a special West Coast QB that lacks the arm to pull a vertical fit.
I'll take the fit over the talent every time and I'm not alone there by any means.
Now, the non skills are a bit different. The good ones will find a way to win more times than not. I'm not saying you can have an insane position/fit difference. But odds are high you can find a good home for any non skills no matter fit. |
I don't disagree one bit about fits being an important part, but cornerback is arguably the hardest position to play on the field because it requires such a precise kind of athlete. I'd much rather take a corner whose got the prototypical size/speed ratio, but completely green in terms of development over an undersized/slow cornerback whose got perfect technique and understanding of defenses.
EDIT: Part of the reason I was so high on Davon House. Great size/speed ratio with a nose for the ball, but poor technique. |
I always look at the sum of all the parts(add staff here as well) either way no matter position at hand. I agree that at large CB's are the best athletes on the field. But for every Woodson there is a Harris! A guy like Harris will get the job done if in the right home and cost half as much. Also, Harris ran mid 4.6 out of college. What was he running at the tail end there? Don't undervalue a man that is a master of his craft. Ability is one this, skill is another!
I like a great pure athlete as much as the next guy, just sayin!
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justo
Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 12942
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Khaseem Greene. Rutgers OLB that used to play S. What does anyone know about him? Listed as 6'1" 230 (too small for LB, too big for S) and is supposed to have 4.4 speed. 41 tackles and 2 sacks so far this year
2011: 141 tackles 3.5 sacks 14 TFL 2 FF (switched to OLB in spring practice)
2010: 77 tackles 2.5 TFL 3 int 4 FR (starting S)
2009: 33 tackles 2 sacks 2 TFL 2 int 2 FR (back up)
2008: RS
Preseason AA (4th team), Pre Season Big East (1st team), DPOTY 2011 for Big East
Brother of Ray Graham
Played at a prep school after HS so this would make him 24 in Feb.
Almost came out last year but decided to go back to school and snapped his leg in bowl against Iowa State to end the year last year.
** recruit out of prep school as a S with only a Rutgers offer
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CWood21
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 34996
Location: 'Merica
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| Kampman74 wrote: | | Who are the top RBs this year guys? Also any good Centers? |
Not much at running back. You've got Lattimore, and then a pretty steep drop off after him. Center doesn't appear much outside of Khaled Holmes who looked pretty bad against Syracuse. Don't really think of Barrett Jones as much of a center prospect. Guard is clearly his natural position. |
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palmy50
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13857
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| CWood21 wrote: | | Kampman74 wrote: | | Who are the top RBs this year guys? Also any good Centers? |
Not much at running back. You've got Lattimore, and then a pretty steep drop off after him. Center doesn't appear much outside of Khaled Holmes who looked pretty bad against Syracuse. Don't really think of Barrett Jones as much of a center prospect. Guard is clearly his natural position. |
Jones does look a bit more comfortable at guard right now. Max Unger clone right there IMO. In that, I do feel center might be his better long term position. Very versatile young man though and feels like a Packers type in every way.
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EMHS
Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 186
Location: Asheboro, NC
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:40 am Post subject: |
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I know how TT usually gets some trench help from smaller schools during the late picks...I've spotted a guy out of Ball State that might have some intrigue. Austin Holtz. 6'5 300. Arm Length of 35" I believe and has played both the left and right tackle for the Cardinals. Has done very well against MAC opponents only giving up 3 sacks in four years of starting. Has also played games against top tier pass rushers (Adrian Clayborn, Ryan Kerrigan, Mike Neal, and Andre Branch).
Looks like he has good to great feet, very good pass pro (quick enough kick step to handle speed rushers) and above average in the run game. Could move to G or possibly be a swing in a LT/RT/G situation. Reminds me of a bigger and quicker TJ Lang.
Cons: Not sure how strong he is, and he looks to have some small injury problems, nothing major though. Anyone else heard or know something about him? Cardinals are averaging 35 points a game and 213 and 263 yards rushing and passing per game. Thoughts?
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Frank-O
Joined: 20 Jun 2012
Posts: 1109
Location: Wisconsin - Cheeseland
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| CWood21 wrote: | | Kampman74 wrote: | | Who are the top RBs this year guys? Also any good Centers? |
Not much at running back. You've got Lattimore, and then a pretty steep drop off after him. Center doesn't appear much outside of Khaled Holmes who looked pretty bad against Syracuse. Don't really think of Barrett Jones as much of a center prospect. Guard is clearly his natural position. |
I think Stepfan Taylor is right up there with Lattimore, obviously not as athletic but the kid would fit the Packers perfectly IMO. Tough, smart, hardnosed/north-south runner.
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