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Lets call it like it is, it's exactly what we feared.
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MP


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 1705
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Lets call it like it is, it's exactly what we feared. Reply with quote

Coming into this offseason we had far to many question marks on the offensive side of the ball. With such few receiving options coming into the season, we are showing that we can't even move the ball if someone goes down with injury. Now that we have Jeremy Kerley as our go to WR, it's only going to get uglier for both the passing game and the running game.

Shonn Greene should be losing his job any day now. Sad part is that while Powell is better, it's not by much. Our offensive line has clearly regressed over the span of three years that it's become a joke to consider us a ground and pound team. The slow it down, grind it out football that Ryan want's to play doesn't work if you can't stop the run nor run the ball.

With Hill likely to deal with hamstring issues, the Holmes injury looking pretty bad and the uncertainty surrounding Keller makes this season going forward one that will be horrendous. I wont cry and say how come the Giants can have guys step up and we can't, the Giants are simply a better run team right now at developing talent. However looking at the options that we have with Kerley, Schilens, Gates and Turner there is not one player here that's going to break out here. Nor do I see White or Pollard making any sort of impact if either are called up. The tight end situation? Well... I rather not even go there. It don't even make any sense to go out there and get a guy like Cooley.

Our offense is in dire need of play makers, home run potential players come this offseason. Ever since Edwards left we have seen our passing game decline. Hell even with Schotty gone we all thought things would get slightly better, but you simply can't do much without a viable running back in this league and sub par WR's. This can't all be on Sanchez, but man it's some times he really makes you shake your head in disgust. With his contract extension that he signed, I can't see him going anywhere nor the Jets cutting him loose and eating all that money.
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Spiel612


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Lets call it like it is, it's exactly what we feared. Reply with quote

MP wrote:
Coming into this offseason we had far to many question marks on the offensive side of the ball. With such few receiving options coming into the season, we are showing that we can't even move the ball if someone goes down with injury. Now that we have Jeremy Kerley as our go to WR, it's only going to get uglier for both the passing game and the running game.

Shonn Greene should be losing his job any day now. Sad part is that while Powell is better, it's not by much. Our offensive line has clearly regressed over the span of three years that it's become a joke to consider us a ground and pound team. The slow it down, grind it out football that Ryan want's to play doesn't work if you can't stop the run nor run the ball.

With Hill likely to deal with hamstring issues, the Holmes injury looking pretty bad and the uncertainty surrounding Keller makes this season going forward one that will be horrendous. I wont cry and say how come the Giants can have guys step up and we can't, the Giants are simply a better run team right now at developing talent. However looking at the options that we have with Kerley, Schilens, Gates and Turner there is not one player here that's going to break out here. Nor do I see White or Pollard making any sort of impact if either are called up. The tight end situation? Well... I rather not even go there. It don't even make any sense to go out there and get a guy like Cooley.

Our offense is in dire need of play makers, home run potential players come this offseason. Ever since Edwards left we have seen our passing game decline. Hell even with Schotty gone we all thought things would get slightly better, but you simply can't do much without a viable running back in this league and sub par WR's. This can't all be on Sanchez, but man it's some times he really makes you shake your head in disgust. With his contract extension that he signed, I can't see him going anywhere nor the Jets cutting him loose and eating all that money.


The guaranteed money is only in the first two years. Unless something changes, he's probably gone after 2013. If things don't improve at all in 2012 though they may just choose to eat the money next season and move on.

I'm actually okay with keeping him. There are too many moving parts on this offense right now that aren't working and if blowing up the rest of them means keeping Sanchez for another year I wouldn't complain. Honestly, they could still draft a quarterback in the first and let him battle Mark next off-season since the contracts are so much smaller now.

What I want, and strictly speaking I don't want to fire Sparano, but what I want is to totally overhaul the actual talent. Holmes, the entire running back corps., Slauson, Moore, and probably Howard (though I've still been impressed with him all things considered).

Defensively we've known for a while that DeVito, Pace, Thomas, and Scott were all going to be gone next season anyway. But the real issue is we need to start seeing the defensive line we were expecting to see.
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Davey


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably one of the most alarming things to me is the fact that after having one of the league's most talented teams just two years ago we need overhauls on both sides of the ball in certain areas. We need three new starters at LB next season, a free safety, better quality at running back, better depth at receiver and a right tackle.
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sandwhich


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's hard not to blame Sanchez but usually when you're held down by just a bad QB you can see actual promise in other players. You just don't get that from watching the Jets. There's nobody making impressive plays and nobody even putting themselves in position for anything.

Sanchez might need to go but he's not going to be alone. If he goes it's because the entire offense needs to be revamped, which is looking right now to be the case. Still, it's a long season.

And I fully agree with Spiel to keep Sparano. He does everything we wanted Schotty to do: mix up the playcalls, call easy completions when needed, design plays that put receivers in open holes, etc. The players just aren't executing, and every defense is playing them the same way. Man up because this offense cannot win a single 1 on 1, aside from the occasional Holmes play.
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ekill08x


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Lets call it like it is, it's exactly what we feared. Reply with quote

Spiel612 wrote:
MP wrote:
Coming into this offseason we had far to many question marks on the offensive side of the ball. With such few receiving options coming into the season, we are showing that we can't even move the ball if someone goes down with injury. Now that we have Jeremy Kerley as our go to WR, it's only going to get uglier for both the passing game and the running game.

Shonn Greene should be losing his job any day now. Sad part is that while Powell is better, it's not by much. Our offensive line has clearly regressed over the span of three years that it's become a joke to consider us a ground and pound team. The slow it down, grind it out football that Ryan want's to play doesn't work if you can't stop the run nor run the ball.

With Hill likely to deal with hamstring issues, the Holmes injury looking pretty bad and the uncertainty surrounding Keller makes this season going forward one that will be horrendous. I wont cry and say how come the Giants can have guys step up and we can't, the Giants are simply a better run team right now at developing talent. However looking at the options that we have with Kerley, Schilens, Gates and Turner there is not one player here that's going to break out here. Nor do I see White or Pollard making any sort of impact if either are called up. The tight end situation? Well... I rather not even go there. It don't even make any sense to go out there and get a guy like Cooley.

Our offense is in dire need of play makers, home run potential players come this offseason. Ever since Edwards left we have seen our passing game decline. Hell even with Schotty gone we all thought things would get slightly better, but you simply can't do much without a viable running back in this league and sub par WR's. This can't all be on Sanchez, but man it's some times he really makes you shake your head in disgust. With his contract extension that he signed, I can't see him going anywhere nor the Jets cutting him loose and eating all that money.


The guaranteed money is only in the first two years. Unless something changes, he's probably gone after 2013. If things don't improve at all in 2012 though they may just choose to eat the money next season and move on.

I'm actually okay with keeping him. There are too many moving parts on this offense right now that aren't working and if blowing up the rest of them means keeping Sanchez for another year I wouldn't complain. Honestly, they could still draft a quarterback in the first and let him battle Mark next off-season since the contracts are so much smaller now.

What I want, and strictly speaking I don't want to fire Sparano, but what I want is to totally overhaul the actual talent. Holmes, the entire running back corps., Slauson, Moore, and probably Howard (though I've still been impressed with him all things considered).

Defensively we've known for a while that DeVito, Pace, Thomas, and Scott were all going to be gone next season anyway. But the real issue is we need to start seeing the defensive line we were expecting to see.


I dont care if Mark is still on the team next year since we guaranteed the rest of his contract (another brilliant move buy our general accountant) but he cannot be the starter. Hes not a starter in this league. This is year 4 and it looks like it could be the worst of his years outside of his rookie season. He doesn't have the mental makeup and toughness to be this teams QB, or any teams for that matter. Not to mention a coin flip completion percentage on a GOOD day. No more excuses. The guy is bad. Four years is enough and I do not want to waster another year on this guy. He doesn't deserve it.

The only reason I would keep Rex is for the fact that players seem to want to play for him and it gives us a competitive edge when trying to sign free agents. At this point, thats the only positive I can see for keeping him. His drafting is down right terrible, and his teams are all talk and no production.

I honestly want to see a guy like Bill Cowher here. Someone whose going to change this franchises culture, bring in the right guys, and bring us back to relevance, because lets be honest, from the owner, to the gm, to the coach were a joke. Cowher is a no non sense guy and could lay the ground work for an extended period of time. That is unless Parcells wants a FO job and could lure in a good HC.
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Jetsfandan423


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Davey wrote:
Probably one of the most alarming things to me is the fact that after having one of the league's most talented teams just two years ago we need overhauls on both sides of the ball in certain areas. We need three new starters at LB next season, a free safety, better quality at running back, better depth at receiver and a right tackle.



That is on Tanny. The front office needs to be over hauled IMO. I'm ok with keeping Rex and most of the coaching staff, but at this point I really think we need to make a change at GM and actually get some talent who can impact our team in positive ways.
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Karmaloop


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ekill08x wrote:
I honestly want to see a guy like Bill Cowher here. Someone whose going to change this franchises culture, bring in the right guys, and bring us back to relevance, because lets be honest, from the owner, to the gm, to the coach were a joke. Cowher is a no non sense guy and could lay the ground work for an extended period of time. That is unless Parcells wants a FO job and could lure in a good HC.
I'd like it a lot, but Cowher would never come to this team. Do you not remember he canceled our meeting because Woody decided not to meet with him personally?
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KingOfTheHill84


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Lets call it like it is, it's exactly what we feared. Reply with quote

ekill08x wrote:
Spiel612 wrote:
MP wrote:
Coming into this offseason we had far to many question marks on the offensive side of the ball. With such few receiving options coming into the season, we are showing that we can't even move the ball if someone goes down with injury. Now that we have Jeremy Kerley as our go to WR, it's only going to get uglier for both the passing game and the running game.

Shonn Greene should be losing his job any day now. Sad part is that while Powell is better, it's not by much. Our offensive line has clearly regressed over the span of three years that it's become a joke to consider us a ground and pound team. The slow it down, grind it out football that Ryan want's to play doesn't work if you can't stop the run nor run the ball.

With Hill likely to deal with hamstring issues, the Holmes injury looking pretty bad and the uncertainty surrounding Keller makes this season going forward one that will be horrendous. I wont cry and say how come the Giants can have guys step up and we can't, the Giants are simply a better run team right now at developing talent. However looking at the options that we have with Kerley, Schilens, Gates and Turner there is not one player here that's going to break out here. Nor do I see White or Pollard making any sort of impact if either are called up. The tight end situation? Well... I rather not even go there. It don't even make any sense to go out there and get a guy like Cooley.

Our offense is in dire need of play makers, home run potential players come this offseason. Ever since Edwards left we have seen our passing game decline. Hell even with Schotty gone we all thought things would get slightly better, but you simply can't do much without a viable running back in this league and sub par WR's. This can't all be on Sanchez, but man it's some times he really makes you shake your head in disgust. With his contract extension that he signed, I can't see him going anywhere nor the Jets cutting him loose and eating all that money.


The guaranteed money is only in the first two years. Unless something changes, he's probably gone after 2013. If things don't improve at all in 2012 though they may just choose to eat the money next season and move on.

I'm actually okay with keeping him. There are too many moving parts on this offense right now that aren't working and if blowing up the rest of them means keeping Sanchez for another year I wouldn't complain. Honestly, they could still draft a quarterback in the first and let him battle Mark next off-season since the contracts are so much smaller now.

What I want, and strictly speaking I don't want to fire Sparano, but what I want is to totally overhaul the actual talent. Holmes, the entire running back corps., Slauson, Moore, and probably Howard (though I've still been impressed with him all things considered).

Defensively we've known for a while that DeVito, Pace, Thomas, and Scott were all going to be gone next season anyway. But the real issue is we need to start seeing the defensive line we were expecting to see.


I dont care if Mark is still on the team next year since we guaranteed the rest of his contract (another brilliant move buy our general accountant) but he cannot be the starter. Hes not a starter in this league. This is year 4 and it looks like it could be the worst of his years outside of his rookie season. He doesn't have the mental makeup and toughness to be this teams QB, or any teams for that matter. Not to mention a coin flip completion percentage on a GOOD day. No more excuses. The guy is bad. Four years is enough and I do not want to waster another year on this guy. He doesn't deserve it.

The only reason I would keep Rex is for the fact that players seem to want to play for him and it gives us a competitive edge when trying to sign free agents. At this point, thats the only positive I can see for keeping him. His drafting is down right terrible, and his teams are all talk and no production.

I honestly want to see a guy like Bill Cowher here. Someone whose going to change this franchises culture, bring in the right guys, and bring us back to relevance, because lets be honest, from the owner, to the gm, to the coach were a joke. Cowher is a no non sense guy and could lay the ground work for an extended period of time. That is unless Parcells wants a FO job and could lure in a good HC.


We need a change of culture around here starting at ownership, if there was anyway to rid this team of Woody I would be for it

Woody
Tanny
Rex
Sanchez

all have to go
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Colt45fool


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The offense is just horrific. We look completely incompetent. We really, almost desperately need a big play receiver and we knew we were getting a raw player in Stephen Hill. Throwing him into the starting line up so early was probably a bad idea.

If there was one draft where I would have preferred us to move up it'd probably have been this one. I really liked Michael Floyd. The draft decisions to not go offense the last 3 years is showing and our defense is predicated on how elite one player is. That is a problem. Ditka said it best today -- if you're team is terrible when one player goes down, you were never a good team.
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green24


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Lets call it like it is, it's exactly what we feared. Reply with quote

KingOfTheHill84 wrote:
We need a change of culture around here starting at ownership, if there was anyway to rid this team of Woody I would be for it

Woody
Tanny
Rex
Sanchez

all have to go


It's not really easy to rid yourself of an owner. Look at the Mets and Knicks.
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Davey


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

The only reason I would keep Rex is for the fact that players seem to want to play for him and it gives us a competitive edge when trying to sign free agents. At this point, thats the only positive I can see for keeping him. His drafting is down right terrible, and his teams are all talk and no production.

I honestly want to see a guy like Bill Cowher here. Someone whose going to change this franchises culture, bring in the right guys, and bring us back to relevance, because lets be honest, from the owner, to the gm, to the coach were a joke. Cowher is a no non sense guy and could lay the ground work for an extended period of time. That is unless Parcells wants a FO job and could lure in a good HC.


I can't see a scenario where Tannenbaum and/or Sanchez goes and Ryan stays... a lot of the mistakes fall on his shoulders. Tannenbaum when it comes down to it is simply operating in the reflection of a Rex Ryan team. Under Mangini for example Tannenbaum would have never went after Edwards or Holmes or Cromartie because Mangini doesn't tolerate those kinds of players. I'm not giving him a free pass, because it's becoming increasingly more evident that Tannenbaum's poor drafting from 2008-2010 and the trading of picks for busts and/or players that only ended up being short term fixes is what has us in this hole right now in the first place.

And if Ryan goes it's almost certainly going to be a disciplinarian, such is the balance of things like this. We were strict with Mangini, we brought in Rex. We brought in Mangini because Herm was a player's coach, and we brought in Herm as a foil to the strictness of Groh and Parcells.
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KingOfTheHill84


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Lets call it like it is, it's exactly what we feared. Reply with quote

green24 wrote:
KingOfTheHill84 wrote:
We need a change of culture around here starting at ownership, if there was anyway to rid this team of Woody I would be for it

Woody
Tanny
Rex
Sanchez

all have to go


It's not really easy to rid yourself of an owner. Look at the Mets and Knicks.


damn shame though all he needs to do is own and let football minds do work, not hire yes man and press magnets and big names.

I'm sick of this nonsense I hope one day he wakes up and says hmm lets put the team on the market he could get a huge grip for this team and hopefully someone from Pitt or B-More better yet Mikhail Prokhorov buys the team at least he'd open the check book and let our guys do what they need to
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tonyto3690


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Davey wrote:
Probably one of the most alarming things to me is the fact that after having one of the league's most talented teams just two years ago we need overhauls on both sides of the ball in certain areas. We need three new starters at LB next season, a free safety, better quality at running back, better depth at receiver and a right tackle.


Not trying to troll though I'm sure it'll come across that way.

But what did you expect when you splurged on big name guys? There is a reason teams who try to maintain long term success always fail. Also constantly trading up in order to get gems like Sanchez. You need depth in the NFL, not just superstar names. The Jets are bone dry in depth at almost every position.
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Davey


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
But what did you expect when you splurged on big name guys? There is a reason teams who try to maintain long term success always fail. Also constantly trading up in order to get gems like Sanchez. You need depth in the NFL, not just superstar names. The Jets are bone dry in depth at almost every position.


I'm aware, I've already pointed that out in another thread.
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Harris Smith


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
Davey wrote:
Probably one of the most alarming things to me is the fact that after having one of the league's most talented teams just two years ago we need overhauls on both sides of the ball in certain areas. We need three new starters at LB next season, a free safety, better quality at running back, better depth at receiver and a right tackle.


Not trying to troll though I'm sure it'll come across that way.

But what did you expect when you splurged on big name guys? There is a reason teams who try to maintain long term success always fail. Also constantly trading up in order to get gems like Sanchez. You need depth in the NFL, not just superstar names. The Jets are bone dry in depth at almost every position.


This argument about trading up is so overblown.

Was trading up for Darrelle Revis a mistake? Or Dustin Keller? In the case of Sanchez, the team literally had no starting quality QB on the roster, and a new first time head coach, and they traded a second rounder and a bag of spare parts to Cleveland to obtain him. It's not like they traded future first round choices for the guy. And a second round pick went to aquire the current starting CB on the team.

You could also make the argument that the Jets made a mistake in thinking they were good enough to not trade up in the 2010 draft. They stayed put, and overdrafted both Kyle Wilson and Vladimir Ducasse in the first and second round. A case could be made that if they had traded up for OT in the first, at least they would have filled that position for years to come.

And FYI, this idea of missing "depth" is also a lame concept. You can only carry 53 players on a roster after all. If the Patriots, with all their stockpiled picks, can still find room to sign guys off the Jets practice squad to play as starters, how valuable is all that supposed depth anyway? There's only so many quality backup players a team can realistically posess in this era.
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