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| Are you content at TE going forward, or do you want an upgrade? |
| We're fine with Myers and Ausberry going into the future |
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76% |
[ 16 ] |
| I want to add someone else to start while they back him up |
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23% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 21 |
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ZoomWaffle
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4567
Location: AZ
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 Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Chali21 wrote: | | Who was the last "game breaking" TE taken in the 1st? |
Vernon Davis- 2006
Good point, the best TEs in the past few years have all been undrafted, or drafted later on. In fact, since 2000, the only "game-breaking"-type TEs drafted in the first have been Davis, Winslow, Clark, Shockey, and Heap. Of course, some of those guys would not be considered game breakers today, but that was a time before we had multiple 1000 yard TEs a season, so for the time I would consider those guys big playmakers. Gresham and Pettigrew have potential, but compared to today's elite TEs, I dont put them in the same category.
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| La_Vader wrote: | | I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that |
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Baggabonez
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3745
Location: RaiderNation
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ZoomWaffle wrote: |
The silk and lace feel amazing! |
LOL! A real man. If only I were as comfortable with my masculinity!
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Baggabonez
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3745
Location: RaiderNation
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ZoomWaffle wrote: | | Chali21 wrote: | | Who was the last "game breaking" TE taken in the 1st? |
Vernon Davis- 2006
Good point, the best TEs in the past few years have all been undrafted, or drafted later on. In fact, since 2000, the only "game-breaking"-type TEs drafted in the first have been Davis, Winslow, Clark, Shockey, and Heap. Of course, some of those guys would not be considered game breakers today, but that was a time before we had multiple 1000 yard TEs a season, so for the time I would consider those guys big playmakers. Gresham and Pettigrew have potential, but compared to today's elite TEs, I dont put them in the same category. |
They may be used correctly but Rudolph and Lewis must be considered elite as well. At the end of the day the better offensive teams all seem to have one. In addition, man-genius Belichick must be stowing them away for a reason. He knows what a mismatch they can be.
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2013 Mancrush: DT Richardson, OT Joeckel, FS Vaccaro, FS Rambo, WR Dobson, RB Michael, TE McDonald, OT Foketi, WR Swope |
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Chali21
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 1707
Location: Cali
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ZoomWaffle wrote: | | Chali21 wrote: | | Who was the last "game breaking" TE taken in the 1st? |
Vernon Davis- 2006
Good point, the best TEs in the past few years have all been undrafted, or drafted later on. In fact, since 2000, the only "game-breaking"-type TEs drafted in the first have been Davis, Winslow, Clark, Shockey, and Heap. Of course, some of those guys would not be considered game breakers today, but that was a time before we had multiple 1000 yard TEs a season, so for the time I would consider those guys big playmakers. Gresham and Pettigrew have potential, but compared to today's elite TEs, I dont put them in the same category. |
Honestly we could get that pass rushing de or nt in the first. That gamer TE in the second and a decent cb in the third. |
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 4153
Location: CA-TX
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | | Chali21 wrote: | | Who was the last "game breaking" TE taken in the 1st? |
Vernon Davis- 2006
Good point, the best TEs in the past few years have all been undrafted, or drafted later on. In fact, since 2000, the only "game-breaking"-type TEs drafted in the first have been Davis, Winslow, Clark, Shockey, and Heap. Of course, some of those guys would not be considered game breakers today, but that was a time before we had multiple 1000 yard TEs a season, so for the time I would consider those guys big playmakers. Gresham and Pettigrew have potential, but compared to today's elite TEs, I dont put them in the same category. |
They may be used correctly but Rudolph and Lewis must be considered elite as well. At the end of the day the better offensive teams all seem to have one. In addition, man-genius Belichick must be stowing them away for a reason. He knows what a mismatch they can be. |
Marcedes Lewis an elite tight end? No way.
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El ramster made the sig!
| candyman93 wrote: | Reading Darkness posts you'd think the warriors were playoff contenders  |
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Baggabonez
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3745
Location: RaiderNation
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ZoomWaffle wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | What won't be there is 43 edge rushers after the early 2nd. As this draft is very thin at this position. Adjust your big boards accordingly. Not that McKenzie has the same big board we do, perhaps he's looking at drafting some high character guy out of Colorado early that won't beat out the tomato can incumbent. |
McKenzie said prior to this last draft that his strategy is drafting BPA. Now, I dont know if that was just for this first year while we were lacking depth and draft picks, or if it will be his strategy every year. If thats the plan he sticks with, we could very well find ourselves passing on a pass rusher or CB if there another player at a different position who is rated higher on his board.
I understand the point of going BPA, but in some instances you really have to look at your team's biggest needs and make a command decision to change that plan. IMO, our needs as of right now are DE, CB, and as always, NT. If we do not come out of the first 3 rounds without at least one of those positions, I will be furious (unless, of course we take care of those positions in free agency). |
I'm befuddled by this BPA. On a team nearly void of starpower how could ANY selection not be considered a position of need? In addition, I know I obsess about things but I just don't see what the FO saw in Bergstrom? They claimed at the time that according to their evaluations he was the best zone blocking prospect in the draft. Really? I'm not going negative, nor have I written Bergs off. I'm just saying he's an older prospect who isn't particularly a natural bender. I would like more information on how the FO makes their big board. This draft will be very telling.
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2013 Mancrush: DT Richardson, OT Joeckel, FS Vaccaro, FS Rambo, WR Dobson, RB Michael, TE McDonald, OT Foketi, WR Swope |
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RaiderX
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 17070
Location: Crown Town, CA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | | Chali21 wrote: | | Who was the last "game breaking" TE taken in the 1st? |
Vernon Davis- 2006
Good point, the best TEs in the past few years have all been undrafted, or drafted later on. In fact, since 2000, the only "game-breaking"-type TEs drafted in the first have been Davis, Winslow, Clark, Shockey, and Heap. Of course, some of those guys would not be considered game breakers today, but that was a time before we had multiple 1000 yard TEs a season, so for the time I would consider those guys big playmakers. Gresham and Pettigrew have potential, but compared to today's elite TEs, I dont put them in the same category. |
They may be used correctly but Rudolph and Lewis must be considered elite as well. At the end of the day the better offensive teams all seem to have one. In addition, man-genius Belichick must be stowing them away for a reason. He knows what a mismatch they can be. |
Marcedes Lewis an elite tight end? No way. |
He was before Gabbert was the starter. Really liked him at UCLA. He'd be great in Silver & Black.
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| SaveourSonics wrote: | | Yea, RaiderX wins. We can all just top acting like this is a matter of opinion. MY GOD. |
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 4153
Location: CA-TX
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| RaiderX wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | | Chali21 wrote: | | Who was the last "game breaking" TE taken in the 1st? |
Vernon Davis- 2006
Good point, the best TEs in the past few years have all been undrafted, or drafted later on. In fact, since 2000, the only "game-breaking"-type TEs drafted in the first have been Davis, Winslow, Clark, Shockey, and Heap. Of course, some of those guys would not be considered game breakers today, but that was a time before we had multiple 1000 yard TEs a season, so for the time I would consider those guys big playmakers. Gresham and Pettigrew have potential, but compared to today's elite TEs, I dont put them in the same category. |
They may be used correctly but Rudolph and Lewis must be considered elite as well. At the end of the day the better offensive teams all seem to have one. In addition, man-genius Belichick must be stowing them away for a reason. He knows what a mismatch they can be. |
Marcedes Lewis an elite tight end? No way. |
He was before Gabbert was the starter. Really liked him at UCLA. He'd be great in Silver & Black. |
No he wasn't. He had one 700 yard season, his only season ever going over 550 yards receiving.
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El ramster made the sig!
| candyman93 wrote: | | Reading Darkness posts you'd think the warriors were playoff contenders |
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Baggabonez
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3745
Location: RaiderNation
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | | Chali21 wrote: | | Who was the last "game breaking" TE taken in the 1st? |
Vernon Davis- 2006
Good point, the best TEs in the past few years have all been undrafted, or drafted later on. In fact, since 2000, the only "game-breaking"-type TEs drafted in the first have been Davis, Winslow, Clark, Shockey, and Heap. Of course, some of those guys would not be considered game breakers today, but that was a time before we had multiple 1000 yard TEs a season, so for the time I would consider those guys big playmakers. Gresham and Pettigrew have potential, but compared to today's elite TEs, I dont put them in the same category. |
They may be used correctly but Rudolph and Lewis must be considered elite as well. At the end of the day the better offensive teams all seem to have one. In addition, man-genius Belichick must be stowing them away for a reason. He knows what a mismatch they can be. |
Marcedes Lewis an elite tight end? No way. |
Currently Lewis is ranked as the the 2nd most complete TE in the NFL followed by a distant 3rd in Greg Olsen (who I also think is an excellent TE I forgot about).
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2013 Mancrush: DT Richardson, OT Joeckel, FS Vaccaro, FS Rambo, WR Dobson, RB Michael, TE McDonald, OT Foketi, WR Swope |
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holyghost
Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5302
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | | Chali21 wrote: | | Who was the last "game breaking" TE taken in the 1st? |
Vernon Davis- 2006
Good point, the best TEs in the past few years have all been undrafted, or drafted later on. In fact, since 2000, the only "game-breaking"-type TEs drafted in the first have been Davis, Winslow, Clark, Shockey, and Heap. Of course, some of those guys would not be considered game breakers today, but that was a time before we had multiple 1000 yard TEs a season, so for the time I would consider those guys big playmakers. Gresham and Pettigrew have potential, but compared to today's elite TEs, I dont put them in the same category. |
They may be used correctly but Rudolph and Lewis must be considered elite as well. At the end of the day the better offensive teams all seem to have one. In addition, man-genius Belichick must be stowing them away for a reason. He knows what a mismatch they can be. |
Marcedes Lewis an elite tight end? No way. |
Currently Lewis is ranked as the the 2nd most complete TE in the NFL followed by a distant 3rd in Greg Olsen (who I also think is an excellent TE I forgot about). |
Ranked by whom? Doesn't seem right at all. |
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 4153
Location: CA-TX
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | | Chali21 wrote: | | Who was the last "game breaking" TE taken in the 1st? |
Vernon Davis- 2006
Good point, the best TEs in the past few years have all been undrafted, or drafted later on. In fact, since 2000, the only "game-breaking"-type TEs drafted in the first have been Davis, Winslow, Clark, Shockey, and Heap. Of course, some of those guys would not be considered game breakers today, but that was a time before we had multiple 1000 yard TEs a season, so for the time I would consider those guys big playmakers. Gresham and Pettigrew have potential, but compared to today's elite TEs, I dont put them in the same category. |
They may be used correctly but Rudolph and Lewis must be considered elite as well. At the end of the day the better offensive teams all seem to have one. In addition, man-genius Belichick must be stowing them away for a reason. He knows what a mismatch they can be. |
Marcedes Lewis an elite tight end? No way. |
Currently Lewis is ranked as the the 2nd most complete TE in the NFL followed by a distant 3rd in Greg Olsen (who I also think is an excellent TE I forgot about). |
Mercedes Lewis has 60 yards receiving on the season. Whoever's rankings those are, they're valuing blocking way too highly. No way is Mercedes Lewis an elite talent. He's not even close.
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El ramster made the sig!
| candyman93 wrote: | | Reading Darkness posts you'd think the warriors were playoff contenders |
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Baggabonez
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3745
Location: RaiderNation
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | Mercedes Lewis has 60 yards receiving on the season. Whoever's rankings those are, they're valuing blocking way too highly. No way is Mercedes Lewis an elite talent. He's not even close. |
JMVHO, Meyers and Lewis are the inverse of one another. Meyers is getting suction because he's a Raider and he's getting the targets because he's starting and Palmer is his QB (as terrible as he is) while Lewis has well . . . . Gabbert and is stuck in a deadend unpopular franchise that never gets on TV.
What's your unbiased opinion of UCLA TE Joe Fuaria who I think is an exact Lewis clone? I must admit my feelings are a bit hurt as I think Joe might be the steal of the TE class. Would he not be an upgrade over Myers in every aspect of the position except blocking?
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2013 Mancrush: DT Richardson, OT Joeckel, FS Vaccaro, FS Rambo, WR Dobson, RB Michael, TE McDonald, OT Foketi, WR Swope
Last edited by Baggabonez on Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NickButera
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Posts: 5015
Location: Nevada
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: |
The silk and lace feel amazing! |
LOL! A real man. If only I were as comfortable with my masculinity! |
Don't get me started on the Bengal Housecat!
..... there's a sig floating around here somewhere of my talking about them I think.
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Bah-Weep-Granah-Weep-Nini-Bong
My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be. |
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RaisinBran
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 8871
Location: 925 Bay Area
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Myers has been incredible so far. I'd also like to see Ausberry get a few more touches/looks per game.
Right now it's hard to say whether we're really set at TE or not. It's still only week 4. Myers COULD regress and come back down to reality (for him atleast).
It's fun to speculate about it, but it this point it is just that: speculation.
Let's not set the bar too high for these guys. They are still yet to prove themselves and it's still too early in the season.
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 4153
Location: CA-TX
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | | Mercedes Lewis has 60 yards receiving on the season. Whoever's rankings those are, they're valuing blocking way too highly. No way is Mercedes Lewis an elite talent. He's not even close. |
JMVHO, Meyers and Lewis are the inverse of one another. Meyers is getting suction because he's a Raider and he's getting the targets because he's starting and Palmer is his QB (as terrible as he is) while Lewis has well . . . . Gabbert and is stuck in a deadend unpopular franchise that never gets on TV.
What's your unbiased opinion of UCLA TE Joe Fuaria who I think is an exact Lewis clone? I must admit my feelings are a bit hurt as I think Joe might be the steal of the TE class. Would he not be an upgrade over Myers in every aspect of the position except blocking? |
I've seen plenty of Marcedes Lewis. He's a career underachiever. He's incapable of taking games over as a receiver, which is why I don't consider him elite. In his best season in 2010, he never broke 70 yards receiving in a game. He doesn't get much separation, and he's not good at finding the soft spot in zones. He doesn't have the feel for the defense that most great receiving TE's have. Great blocker. Average receiver.
Fauria will be a steal if his stock doesn't rise to the top of the 2nd round by the time April comes around. While his blocking needs to get better, as a receiver, he has more potential then Lewis. I wouldn't hate drafting a TE outside of the 1st if the value isn't there at other positions we have bigger needs at. But I doubt that's the case. And since I'm fine with our TE situation right now, unless Myers wants too much to be re-signed, we should focus our attention on improving positions that make a bigger impact on the team.
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El ramster made the sig!
| candyman93 wrote: | | Reading Darkness posts you'd think the warriors were playoff contenders |
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