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Gameday Thread: BAL Ravens vs. CLE Browns (W4)
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Which Ravens coordinator are we trashing the most after this game?
Dean Pees
25%
 25%  [ 4 ]
Cam Cameron
62%
 62%  [ 10 ]
Jerry Rosburg
12%
 12%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 16

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sp6488


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
Hard fought game and while I never believed we would win I certainly had some pride with how the Browns defense played after that awful game against Buffalo. Your fans were a class act last night, at least the ones who stuck out the rain (and discounting the idiot making Lebron James comments at me all night and the very trashy group of people hurling profanities at eachother and not watching the game).


Go beat the steelers up and I'll forgive you for the win a little bit.

DTMB- I think you can say you guys controlled the game but don't blame procedural penalties. Those are mental errors no different then our 7 drops or our 36 yards of penalties on one play. If you can say "we domimated but for little penalties" then Browns fans could say "we won but for stupid drops" which isn't really true.


You're 100% correct on the last part there. I definitely agree. It's like the guy in general who just posted about "if x y and z" weeden would have had 400 yards and 2 or 3 tds. Just can't realistically play that game.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah the penalties on the Ravens last night were all on them. The team has had a problem with penalties all season so far and this is one of the biggest things they need to work on. It was mostly the defense before but what happened last night is hard for an offense to constantly try and overcome. The short week doesn't help with this and I do expect it to get better. Hopefully.

I was really impressed with the Cleveland's DL. The Ravens' OL wasn't good but that's part of the Browns' DL playing well. I'm still a bit chapped over passing on Winn so many times and it looks like he's doing very well in the UT role next to Rubin. If they get a DE to line up across from Sheard that could be a scary front 4.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the general consensus. It looked like throughout the game that the Ravens were doing just enough to win- I got the feeling that their was no urgency and they weren't really "trying" as much as possible... especially with the offense.

I think Lardarius Webb probably just played his worst game I've seen him play since his "rehabilitation season"... it wasn't a bad game, but he got beat a couple times and didn't make some of the plays that he usually makes. It was a "good" game, but it wasn't his usual "elite" game IMO.

Cary Williams made up for the play that gave Cleveland momentum and a touchdown, by getting a pick 6... that being said, that big play he gave up was probably worth more. Before that, Cleveland goes 3 and out, have no momentum... and with that kind of field position we were looking at, we're probably talking about a 14 point swing (as in 16-0) and now the Browns likely abandon their running game- in the rain- and we just pin back our ears and look to destroy Weedon.

But hey, really, it just looked like we wanted to come out of this game without any major injuries and to just meet our goal of winning our quarter pole in the season. We had just enough urgency and made just enough plays. I wasn't concerned with this game at all. I probably should've stuck with my original inclination and went with a 10 point prediction... but what can I say, every now and again I like to throw caution to the wind and summon my inner DontTazeMeBro. Laughing

So really this type of game doesn't really surprise me. We played 4 games in 18 days. Coming off an emotional win. Playing an inferior team at home. Rainy, lethargic atmosphere. Harbaugh and multiple players having red eyes from (I hope) drowsiness. It just looked like the Browns were looking for a fight, whereas we looked like a Championship boxer that had a date with a Super Model later that evening- take a few body blows... but make sure the face looks nice and pretty for the evening festivities. In the end, the result was always going to be a knockout.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't get to watch the 2nd half so here's my questions:

1.) Are we REALLY just a failed hail mary better than the BROWNS?

2.) Does Cary Williams' pick six mean he locked up his #2 corner spot, despite him being terrible?

3.) Why weren't we able to score ANY points in the 2nd half?

I'm just a little confused why we only beat the Browns by 7 points, but Flacco had 350+ yards and 2 TD's and we had a pick six....?
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
I didn't get to watch the 2nd half so here's my questions:

1.) Are we REALLY just a failed hail mary better than the BROWNS?

2.) Does Cary Williams' pick six mean he locked up his #2 corner spot, despite him being terrible?

3.) Why weren't we able to score ANY points in the 2nd half?

I'm just a little confused why we only beat the Browns by 7 points, but Flacco had 350+ yards and 2 TD's and we had a pick six....?


1) no. We were clearly the better team all game. We were in control of the game all the way. It's not as though the game was a back and forth slugfest that came down to the final play.

2) I doubt it.

3) we moved the ball well by Cleveland was able to stifle our running game.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They scored in the 2nd half, Flacco had his rushing TD in the 3rd quarter. Cool

I don't think that pick locks up Williams' spot at all since he was still beaten multiple times in that game. If Pees keeps calling soft coverages I don't think it's going to make a whole lot of difference though. Smith has looked better than Williams but he still performs much better pressing the WR at the LOS. That goes for Williams too. I get that the general rule of thumb is to give the CBs a little more cushion when there isn't a blitz/the pass-rush is bad but if the CBs cover better when they get a press regardless of the pass-rush I don't think the rule of thumb should apply. Pees just frustrates me to no end. Whatever good the defense is able to do is in spite of him.

http://russellstreetreport.com/the-good-bad-ugly-the-megan-fox-a-win-is-a-win/

Quote:
THE UGLY: The Ravens pass rush and vanilla schemes are ineffective and frighteningly similar to the approach taken by Greg Mattison. Rushing 3 defenders just outside the red zone when facing receivers as pedestrian as those of the Browns is unconscionable. Weeden was sacked only once despite dropping back 53 times.


At least we're not the only ones seeing this.
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
I'm just a little confused why we only beat the Browns by 7 points, but Flacco had 350+ yards and 2 TD's and we had a pick six....?
Honestly, it's because we played a sloppy and slightly unfocused game. Short week in terrible conditions against a good defense, after a big emotional high and it was easy to see how we could be so relatively disengaged. There wasn't any semblance of the intensity from the first 3 weeks in this one.

We left a ton of points on the board. A pick in the end zone, a missed field goal, a missed extra point... it was just sort of ugly.

It's not a particularly impressive performance but I don't think it's something to be overly worried about, either. If I thought we were going to be this flat on a weekly basis, I'd be worried, but the fact that we were able to keep the eyes open enough to get the W and move along to a 10 day rest is a good thing in my eyes. This was a trap game/letdown game if I've ever seen one, and at the end of the day we got our W and moved on. It's not a game that will comfort any of our bigger concerns about this team, like the offensive line or pass rush, but it's also not one that did more to create cause for alarm in my eyes. That would probably be the more optimistic way of looking at it. A more pessimistic outlook would be to really be concerned about Pees, and that's something I'm coming around on.

On another note, how bout Bernard Pierce? He looked GREAT last night.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
I'm just a little confused why we only beat the Browns by 7 points, but Flacco had 350+ yards and 2 TD's and we had a pick six....?
Honestly, it's because we played a sloppy and slightly unfocused game. Short week in terrible conditions against a good defense, after a big emotional high and it was easy to see how we could be so relatively disengaged. There wasn't any semblance of the intensity from the first 3 weeks in this one.

We left a ton of points on the board. A pick in the end zone, a missed field goal, a missed extra point... it was just sort of ugly.

It's not a particularly impressive performance but I don't think it's something to be overly worried about, either. If I thought we were going to be this flat on a weekly basis, I'd be worried, but the fact that we were able to keep the eyes open enough to get the W and move along to a 10 day rest is a good thing in my eyes. This was a trap game/letdown game if I've ever seen one, and at the end of the day we got our W and moved on. It's not a game that will comfort any of our bigger concerns about this team, like the offensive line or pass rush, but it's also not one that did more to create cause for alarm in my eyes. That would probably be the more optimistic way of looking at it. A more pessimistic outlook would be to really be concerned about Pees, and that's something I'm coming around on.

On another note, how bout Bernard Pierce? He looked GREAT last night.

Indeed he did. And I was a HUGE fan of his when we drafted him. In fact, if it weren't for Tucker... I'd have made a Pierce sig (and still might, but Tucker needs sig representation... the confidence in him must remain.)
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@coordinator0: And our only sack came on a 3-man rush where Paul Kruger just straight up beat the guy around the edge. I'm glad someone else sees the horrible blitzing schemes that Peas is employing right now, because it's hard to watch, personally.

I still always watch highlight videos of Organized Chaos and how much that affected bad QB's. Now, we just say "man screw this let's just straight up beat people instead of confusing them to make it harder on ourselves."
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll just be saving this gif in this thread until our rematch against Cleveland a little later in the season. This play was beautiful!


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gooselovechild


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
I'm just a little confused why we only beat the Browns by 7 points, but Flacco had 350+ yards and 2 TD's and we had a pick six....?
Honestly, it's because we played a sloppy and slightly unfocused game. Short week in terrible conditions against a good defense, after a big emotional high and it was easy to see how we could be so relatively disengaged. There wasn't any semblance of the intensity from the first 3 weeks in this one.


It was also our 4th game in 18 days, which is incredibly tough on the mind and body, in addition to all the things you mentioned.

And, let's face it, we sometimes play down to our opponents...its what we do.
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STrid


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been a while since I've posted here, but since the season is now in full swing I figured it was time to come back Smile.

I think you've all been fair in your overall criticism of the defence, but I think the blame put on Pees is a bit misplaced. To me the biggest difference from last year is the fact that none of our guys are really able to beat their man. McPhee and Ngata does it sometimes, but other than those two none of the others are really able to do it. I've read that Pees actually blitz a lot, something like 54% of the dropbacks, which indicated that it's the players that are just not managing to get there. Now of course I don't know if those blitzes are "deceptive" or anything, but I don't think he can be blamed for not being aggressive enough.

The reality is really that we need someone to blame and instead of blaming Ray or Ed we throw the coordinator under the bus. Maybe that's because we have a hard time acknowledging the fact that our favorite players are just not playing very well or something, but sometimes that is probably the truth. I think the criticism of Cam has been fair enough. His long developing plays did neither to OL or Flacco any favors, but to make every offensive failure about poor playcalling is absurd just like it is with the defensive failures. However every fan of every team does it all the time, blaming head coached, coordinators or GM's for mistakes they are not really responsible of.

This is not to make some sort of speech in defense of the coordinators, for they are not blame free, but the same old song is getting pretty tiresome by now. Pagano did very well last year, but so did the players. They managed to beat their opponents when called upon just like Pagano managed to put them in a position that made it possible. I don't quite know what Pagano did, but for the most part the passrush was good, although at times it looked concerning as well, lets not forget that. Though with Suggs out we really lack that guy who draws the focus of the protection, which I think Kruger and McPhee really benefited from last year. We have tried now for some time to find that other guy who can get to the QB, I know, but maybe the reality is that there is only so much a coordinator can do when you don't have that guy. To me Pees is a victim of that.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

STrid wrote:
Been a while since I've posted here, but since the season is now in full swing I figured it was time to come back Smile.

I think you've all been fair in your overall criticism of the defence, but I think the blame put on Pees is a bit misplaced. To me the biggest difference from last year is the fact that none of our guys are really able to beat their man. McPhee and Ngata does it sometimes, but other than those two none of the others are really able to do it. I've read that Pees actually blitz a lot, something like 54% of the dropbacks, which indicated that it's the players that are just not managing to get there. Now of course I don't know if those blitzes are "deceptive" or anything, but I don't think he can be blamed for not being aggressive enough.

The reality is really that we need someone to blame and instead of blaming Ray or Ed we throw the coordinator under the bus. Maybe that's because we have a hard time acknowledging the fact that our favorite players are just not playing very well or something, but sometimes that is probably the truth. I think the criticism of Cam has been fair enough. His long developing plays did neither to OL or Flacco any favors, but to make every offensive failure about poor playcalling is absurd just like it is with the defensive failures. However every fan of every team does it all the time, blaming head coached, coordinators or GM's for mistakes they are not really responsible of.

This is not to make some sort of speech in defense of the coordinators, for they are not blame free, but the same old song is getting pretty tiresome by now. Pagano did very well last year, but so did the players. They managed to beat their opponents when called upon just like Pagano managed to put them in a position that made it possible. I don't quite know what Pagano did, but for the most part the passrush was good, although at times it looked concerning as well, lets not forget that. Though with Suggs out we really lack that guy who draws the focus of the protection, which I think Kruger and McPhee really benefited from last year. We have tried now for some time to find that other guy who can get to the QB, I know, but maybe the reality is that there is only so much a coordinator can do when you don't have that guy. To me Pees is a victim of that.

Welcome back. I was just thinking to myself where you and Dan were.

In terms of Pees, the difference between Pagano and him is that Pagano better understood the strengths of the players. For instance, Pees has our corners playing at least 10 yards off the ball on the vast majority of plays- sometimes they look ever deeper. One could see why he would do that against the fast burner type of WRs like we faced against the Eagles.

But why were we giving the Browns WRs so much of a cushion? Last year Cary Williams looked pretty darn competent at corner, he was aggressive at the line and had good coverage. This year however, we've removed part of his comfort zone and he's struggled mightily. Jimmy Smith has also proven to be a much more effective corner when pressing at the LOS.

Pees is setting our secondary players up for failure and not adjusting to their strengths. And with regards to the pass rush, I tend to agree that there isn't much he can do. The players have to beat their man 1on1 when given that opportunity- they have to execute better. And I haven't even had too much of a problem with his blitzing percentage... but he's making it blatantly obvious to these QBs where the pressure is coming from if they're consistently finding holes in our coverage early. They're knowing presnap where to dump the ball off to. Tom Brady doing it was one thing, but Mike Vick destroying us with consistently plowing through our coverage by going Brent Celek.

It just bothers me that when he brings pressure, QBs are finding WIDE OPEN guys far too often. If it happens a few times, it's a blown coverage... but it's happened far too often. It simply has to be a scheming issue. The blitzes have no chance at actually impacting the QB half the time because they're getting the ball out entirely too fast. That's a problem.

Cam on the other hand has mostly been fine. Most of the show has been Joe being allowed to run the show. Though I would like to see a little more running of the football. It's pretty pathetic that we're only something like 25th in rushing attempts per game. We have two really talented backs on the active roster along with the best FB in the game... we should be at least top 20 in rushing attempts, I'd like to think. Though maybe that number increased when the weather starts to cool some.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
I'm just a little confused why we only beat the Browns by 7 points, but Flacco had 350+ yards and 2 TD's and we had a pick six....?
Honestly, it's because we played a sloppy and slightly unfocused game. Short week in terrible conditions against a good defense, after a big emotional high and it was easy to see how we could be so relatively disengaged. There wasn't any semblance of the intensity from the first 3 weeks in this one.

We left a ton of points on the board. A pick in the end zone, a missed field goal, a missed extra point... it was just sort of ugly.

It's not a particularly impressive performance but I don't think it's something to be overly worried about, either. If I thought we were going to be this flat on a weekly basis, I'd be worried, but the fact that we were able to keep the eyes open enough to get the W and move along to a 10 day rest is a good thing in my eyes. This was a trap game/letdown game if I've ever seen one, and at the end of the day we got our W and moved on. It's not a game that will comfort any of our bigger concerns about this team, like the offensive line or pass rush, but it's also not one that did more to create cause for alarm in my eyes. That would probably be the more optimistic way of looking at it. A more pessimistic outlook would be to really be concerned about Pees, and that's something I'm coming around on.

On another note, how bout Bernard Pierce? He looked GREAT last night.


Agreed on all accounts. I think our team was playing on fumes at this point after 4 games in 18 days, and on such a short weak, yet they stayed in it, got their W and now get 10 days rest. I think they'll come back refreshed against KC and play very well.

Also, Pierce looked awesome to me. I love his one cut style and as soon as he hits that hole, I was shocked at the explosion through it.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In regards to Pees, I have no idea why we constantly see guys wide open in the middle of the field -- and by wide open I mean nobody even on the screen when they catch the ball. Is it a LB coverage issue? Scheme issue? Blown assignments? I just don't get it, but we get DESTROYED because of it.
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If a police officer offered me a warning, no, I would not take it.
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