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BYE Week Discussion Thread: Where do we go from here?
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ShooterMcGavin


Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Posts: 1450
Location: Pittsburgh
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3rivers wrote:
ShooterMcGavin wrote:
Anyone know how many snaps McLendon has received compred to Big Snack? I swear Hampton has taken far too many snaps.


after seeing snack get skated out of the way on that run, I was disappointed in snack and the coaches for keeping him in there as much as they did. Can't believe that play happened to go by snack and IIRC he was fresh so stamina wasn't a factor. To see anyone run NEAR snack is not normal at all, something we might have to accept though. Timmons play doesn't help either Rolling Eyes

Yeah, I don't mind Snack getting some reps, but there's no reason he should be getting more snaps than McLendon.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49515
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShooterMcGavin wrote:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/25/refo-steelers-raiders-week-3/
The guys at PFF thought Timmons had a good game. I wasn't focusing too much on him but when I did, he looked pretty mediocre. I must have missed something.


PFF is terrible.

But Timmons wasnt too bad. There were two plays I think he wouldve had a TFL if he wasnt held. The Raiders got away with a ton of holding.

Timmons surely wasnt great...but then again, nothing about our defense at this point is great.
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KJtheWicked


Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 1715
Location: Norrisville, Pa
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
treat88 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
treat88 wrote:
armsteeld wrote:
Honestly it is almost laughable hearing people saying if we draft low enough that we will get better playmakers. I completely disagree. It is how you scout, how you draft, and sometimes are you willing to draft a potential high risk "character" player. With where we have been drafting, we have plenty of talent to choose from but chose system guys instead.

I would love the ability to disrupt the passing game with 43 scheme but you still need playmakers or passrushers and we lack those IMHO.


I don't know about the first part of this at all man.

The lower the number next to the draft pick, the higher the probability that you get an impact player. That's just a fact.

Consistently drafting mid 20's and lower certainly makes it less probable we end up with difference making talents.

I could very well be wrong, but I think this team is one big time DE away from being able to transition to a very talented 43 base system.

It will be interesting if LeBeau hangs it up this off season.


What will be even more interesting is to see who takes over the defense.

Even more interesting than that will be, if it's Keith Butler, will he trying running the defense exactly like LeBeau?


Yep. Been rooting for Butler to take over for a couple of years now and he certainly has to be considered the odds on favorite. Almost a shoo in? Probably IMO.

He's worked with LeBeau long enough now tho that I do worry the philosophy is ingrained to the point it can't be changed. I have nothing to base that on other than the length of his tenure here, so I certainly would be optimistic at the start of a switch.

Blech...too early to start fretting over these things yet. Man that Raider loss left a bad taste.


Agreed with everything.

But even before we started slipping, I said I hoped that Butler would have his own vision and not simply trying to emulate LeBeau in terms of scheme, because thats a recipe for failure. Not that he cant take alot from what he has learned, but I dont want a someone who just wants to try to copy everything.

Here's to hoping Butler can be his own man and step out from behind LeBeau, as opposed to merely riding his coattails.


I base this off of no factual information, just my opinion, but I think Butler will run the defense based off of what he has learned from lebeau, and probably very similar to lebeau, but I find it difficult to believe he would run it just like lebeau. It will have his own feel to it.

Heres a comparison. I am a big Florida St. fan. I think Bobby Bowden was one of the greatest, if not the greatest coaches of all time. The man's a legend. But the last 8 or 9 years of his tenure, it just seemed like he didn't have it anymore. The team started to go downhill, players weren't being utilized to their potential, etc. It was time for him to go. Jimbo Fisher comes in, after coaching under Bowden for a few years, and revitalizes the team. Fisher being successful has alot to do with his time under Bowden, not only what to do, but what not to do. Alot of what he does is very similar to what Bobby would do, but with his own philosophies and style.

Loose comparison, but I think there are alot of similarities. I think most of us are grateful for what lebeau has done for our team, but its time for him to move aside and let Butler take over the reigns.
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ShooterMcGavin


Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Posts: 1450
Location: Pittsburgh
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
ShooterMcGavin wrote:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/25/refo-steelers-raiders-week-3/
The guys at PFF thought Timmons had a good game. I wasn't focusing too much on him but when I did, he looked pretty mediocre. I must have missed something.


PFF is terrible.

But Timmons wasnt too bad. There were two plays I think he wouldve had a TFL if he wasnt held. The Raiders got away with a ton of holding.

Timmons surely wasnt great...but then again, nothing about our defense at this point is great.

Yeah I've had mixed feelings with PFF lately. It gets kind of annoying when people treat their word as gold though and also when it's used in Sports Illustrated for example. I think I tend to be a bit more critical of Timmons because we've seen how explosive and talented he can be. I just hope he starts living up to that big contract we gave him. I agree with the bolded as well, our defense as a whole just looks...meh. With 43 returning and 92 (hopefully) returning sometime soon, this should provide a needed boost.
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MOSteelers56


Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 5177
Location: Anywheresville Missouri
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShooterMcGavin wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
ShooterMcGavin wrote:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/25/refo-steelers-raiders-week-3/
The guys at PFF thought Timmons had a good game. I wasn't focusing too much on him but when I did, he looked pretty mediocre. I must have missed something.


PFF is terrible.

But Timmons wasnt too bad. There were two plays I think he wouldve had a TFL if he wasnt held. The Raiders got away with a ton of holding.

Timmons surely wasnt great...but then again, nothing about our defense at this point is great.

Yeah I've had mixed feelings with PFF lately. It gets kind of annoying when people treat their word as gold though and also when it's used in Sports Illustrated for example. I think I tend to be a bit more critical of Timmons because we've seen how explosive and talented he can be. I just hope he starts living up to that big contract we gave him. I agree with the bolded as well, our defense as a whole just looks...meh. With 43 returning and 92 (hopefully) returning sometime soon, this should provide a needed boost.

Don't count on Silverback returning, I doubt he plays another snap for us. Hopefully Carter/Worilds get immensely better in 2 weeks.
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MOSteelers56 wrote:
ShooterMcGavin wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
ShooterMcGavin wrote:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/25/refo-steelers-raiders-week-3/
The guys at PFF thought Timmons had a good game. I wasn't focusing too much on him but when I did, he looked pretty mediocre. I must have missed something.


PFF is terrible.

But Timmons wasnt too bad. There were two plays I think he wouldve had a TFL if he wasnt held. The Raiders got away with a ton of holding.

Timmons surely wasnt great...but then again, nothing about our defense at this point is great.

Yeah I've had mixed feelings with PFF lately. It gets kind of annoying when people treat their word as gold though and also when it's used in Sports Illustrated for example. I think I tend to be a bit more critical of Timmons because we've seen how explosive and talented he can be. I just hope he starts living up to that big contract we gave him. I agree with the bolded as well, our defense as a whole just looks...meh. With 43 returning and 92 (hopefully) returning sometime soon, this should provide a needed boost.

Don't count on Silverback returning, I doubt he plays another snap for us. Hopefully Carter/Worilds get immensely better in 2 weeks.


What about putting Brandon Johnson opposite of Woodley? Idk just an idea.
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MOSteelers56 wrote:
ShooterMcGavin wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
ShooterMcGavin wrote:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/25/refo-steelers-raiders-week-3/
The guys at PFF thought Timmons had a good game. I wasn't focusing too much on him but when I did, he looked pretty mediocre. I must have missed something.


PFF is terrible.

But Timmons wasnt too bad. There were two plays I think he wouldve had a TFL if he wasnt held. The Raiders got away with a ton of holding.

Timmons surely wasnt great...but then again, nothing about our defense at this point is great.

Yeah I've had mixed feelings with PFF lately. It gets kind of annoying when people treat their word as gold though and also when it's used in Sports Illustrated for example. I think I tend to be a bit more critical of Timmons because we've seen how explosive and talented he can be. I just hope he starts living up to that big contract we gave him. I agree with the bolded as well, our defense as a whole just looks...meh. With 43 returning and 92 (hopefully) returning sometime soon, this should provide a needed boost.

Don't count on Silverback returning, I doubt he plays another snap for us. Hopefully Carter/Worilds get immensely better in 2 weeks.


What about putting Brandon Johnson opposite of Woodley? Idk just an idea.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9824
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

finally through the 1st half of the raiders game. graded the entire defensive front 7 and then both Pouncey and Colon

Timmons positive plays:
14:52(1) - LILB - Timmons came up and hit Reese in A-gap right (+0.5)
10:19(2) - LILB - Timmons took on lead blocker, filled gap (+0.5)
4:20(2) - LILB - Timmons good job in coverage, reacted well, good hit (+1.0)

Timmons negative plays:
10:44(1) - RILB - Timmons blitzed outside of Keisel after seeing play go other way, cutback lane was his gap (-1.0)
9:11(2) - LILB - Timmons pursued wrong gap (-0.5)
3:20(2) - RILB - Timmons had arms around ballcarrier but fell off without slowing him down (-1.0)

as of the first half, I have him at a -0.5

FWIW, here are the preliminary grades I have so far on the front 7 (haven't rechecked any of the plays yet)

Woodley: 0.0 (2+, 2-)
Ziggy: 1.5 (4+, 3-)
Timmons: -0.5 (3+, 3-)
Snack: -3.0 (1+, 3-)
Foote: 2.5 (5+, 0-)
Keisel: -2.5 (1+, 4-)
Carter: -1.5 (0+, 2-)
Worilds: 0 (1+, 1-)

Colon: -1.5 (5+, 7-)
Pouncey: +6.0 (13+, 3-)

Yes, Pouncey was in beastmode vs. the Raiders in the first half.

now take these with a grain of salt. I always go back and recheck my notes to see if I boogered stuff up, and I usually do. Hence "preliminary"
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SMashMouthMike


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 4523
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Woodley: 0.0 (2+, 2-)
Ziggy: 1.5 (4+, 3-)
Timmons: -0.5 (3+, 3-)
Snack: -3.0 (1+, 3-)
Foote: 2.5 (5+, 0-)
Keisel: -2.5 (1+, 4-)
Carter: -1.5 (0+, 2-)
Worilds: 0 (1+, 1-)


Shocked Look at these abysmal scores from our front 7! Keisel & Snack need a lot less snaps. That's disgustingly atrocious. A healthy Troy and Harrison can't fix that, imo.
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MOSteelers56 wrote:
ShooterMcGavin wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
ShooterMcGavin wrote:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/25/refo-steelers-raiders-week-3/
The guys at PFF thought Timmons had a good game. I wasn't focusing too much on him but when I did, he looked pretty mediocre. I must have missed something.


PFF is terrible.

But Timmons wasnt too bad. There were two plays I think he wouldve had a TFL if he wasnt held. The Raiders got away with a ton of holding.

Timmons surely wasnt great...but then again, nothing about our defense at this point is great.

Yeah I've had mixed feelings with PFF lately. It gets kind of annoying when people treat their word as gold though and also when it's used in Sports Illustrated for example. I think I tend to be a bit more critical of Timmons because we've seen how explosive and talented he can be. I just hope he starts living up to that big contract we gave him. I agree with the bolded as well, our defense as a whole just looks...meh. With 43 returning and 92 (hopefully) returning sometime soon, this should provide a needed boost.

Don't count on Silverback returning, I doubt he plays another snap for us. Hopefully Carter/Worilds get immensely better in 2 weeks.


why do you doubt 92 plays another snap for us? This is not good news if there is any factual basis for this comment.
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stillersenat


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A side-note I just saw: The Steelers won't have to travel to the West Coast for the rest of the season. That's always seemed to be a problem for this team.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3rivers wrote:
MOSteelers56 wrote:
ShooterMcGavin wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
ShooterMcGavin wrote:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/25/refo-steelers-raiders-week-3/
The guys at PFF thought Timmons had a good game. I wasn't focusing too much on him but when I did, he looked pretty mediocre. I must have missed something.


PFF is terrible.

But Timmons wasnt too bad. There were two plays I think he wouldve had a TFL if he wasnt held. The Raiders got away with a ton of holding.

Timmons surely wasnt great...but then again, nothing about our defense at this point is great.

Yeah I've had mixed feelings with PFF lately. It gets kind of annoying when people treat their word as gold though and also when it's used in Sports Illustrated for example. I think I tend to be a bit more critical of Timmons because we've seen how explosive and talented he can be. I just hope he starts living up to that big contract we gave him. I agree with the bolded as well, our defense as a whole just looks...meh. With 43 returning and 92 (hopefully) returning sometime soon, this should provide a needed boost.

Don't count on Silverback returning, I doubt he plays another snap for us. Hopefully Carter/Worilds get immensely better in 2 weeks.


why do you doubt 92 plays another snap for us? This is not good news if there is any factual basis for this comment.


The fact that he hasnt been 100% in nearly 2 years and he cant stay healthy. And his knee seems like it may never fully recover.

I disagree that he wont play another snap. I think he will play by mid October, but I do think he will be a shell of his former self and its pretty much guaranteed he is done after this season. Well...until Arizona signs him at least.
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