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Eagles_808


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meco wrote:
Eagles_808 wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5169/jeremy-maclin
Quote:
Since Week 11 of last season, the Eagles are 7-0 when Maclin plays and 0-3 when he sits out.


Get out of here! They must not be telling the truth...

Ha! I posted that the other day and all I got was crickets from PE.


I love Meco! (yes, that's what she said Wink )
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PowerElite


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe I responded with something like "How many playoff games has Andy won with Maclin? How man with James Trash?"
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Meco


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:
I believe I responded with something like "How many playoff games has Andy won with Maclin? How man with James Trash?"


Like I said, crickets.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:
Phire, teams all around the NFL have been setting records the last few seasons. How many QBs passed for 4000 yards or better last season? Can you and whoever else have been using that stop it? I've seen it before and it is turning a blind eye to the rest of the National Football League. The rules have changed to favor offenses now more than ever. The Eagles have set team records, other teams have set team records and NFL records. Proof that the pass happy Eagles could get far better with sharper tools in the box... I'm in favor of acquiring sharper tools.


I was expecting you to ignore my argument that Avant was never the largest fish to fry. Congratulations.

The Eagles have always passed. And they've broken team records for not only yards, but points as well in successive years. The current team, with both Maclin and Avant, have broken more season passing records than the 2004 team did. And the 2004 team passed more than the teams today.

Here's a fact:

Michael Vick has more turnovers BY HIMSELF than all other teams combined except for one.

And yet, he's currently third in the league in passing yards.

Our team can move the ball. Our team can move the ball with Maclin and Avant. That's why Avant was never the biggest fish to fry. He's not even the largest fish to fry right now. And never was at any point since he joined the team.
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Eagles_808


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meco wrote:
PowerElite wrote:
I believe I responded with something like "How many playoff games has Andy won with Maclin? How man with James Trash?"

Like I said, crickets.


How many Super Bowls did Dan Marino win? How many did Trent Dilfer win?

#logic
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PowerElite


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How well are the Eagles doing scoring the football? Laughing

You can rack up plenty of offensive yards by having the following combination that the eagles have displayed:

1. A coach running an unbalanced offense favoring the pass even if it's creating turnovers, sacks, incompletions... But there will be a ton of yards generated so that people online can say "see those Eagles CAN move the ball." Rolling Eyes
2. A poor return game causing the offense to drive a long field every single time.
3. A top defense giving the the offense the ball back again and again and again and again.

And there you have it folks. Let's put that offensive yardage thing to rest. I have just destroyed it.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:
How well are the Eagles doing scoring the football? Laughing

You can rack up plenty of offensive yards by having the following combination that the eagles have displayed:

1. A coach running an unbalanced offense favoring the pass even if it's creating turnovers, sacks, incompletions... But there will be a ton of yards generated so that people online can say "see those Eagles CAN move the ball." Rolling Eyes
2. A poor return game causing the offense to drive a long field every single time.
3. A top defense giving the the offense the ball back again and again and again and again.

And there you have it folks. Let's put that offensive yardage thing to rest. I have just destroyed it.


Anyone who agrees with PE, raise your hand.

Nobody.

You defeat your own argument.

Quote:
2. A poor return game causing the offense to drive a long field every single time.


So the offense is able to drive a long field Laughing Laughing Laughing

Everything you said points to the Eagles being able to move the ball. If the defense gives them the ball over and over, if they keep going 3-and-out then they won't get yards.

Also the offense has turned the ball over much more often than the defense has.

Also, anyone watching the games knows turnovers have prevented us from scoring. Not an inability to score, or an inability to drive the ball (as you said).

And for the zinger...

Are these not all bigger fish to fry than replacing Jason Avant?

Quote:
1. A coach running an unbalanced offense favoring the pass even if it's creating turnovers, sacks, incompletions... But there will be a ton of yards generated so that people online can say "see those Eagles CAN move the ball." Rolling Eyes
2. A poor return game causing the offense to drive a long field every single time.
3. A top defense giving the the offense the ball back again and again and again and again.

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PowerElite


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Defenses get paid to create turnovers. I don't know where this mentality surrounding the Eagles fanbase and Philly media grew where these turnovers are looked upon as "accidents." Laughing "Oops my bad, another turnover." Sorry, NFL defenses are staffed with trained professionals skilled in creating turnovers.

I don't see anyone here painting the Eagles defense as "taking advantage of the opponents accidents." So why treat the Eagles offense as anything less than a team getting beat by defenses? Logic... Never allow your fandom get in the way of that.

Defenses are keeping the Eagles out of the endzone AND making the Eagles turn the ball over. But many of you have this ignorant mentality of "well if we didn't turn the ball over we would have scored." BS!
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Broadway Joe


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Broadway Joe wrote:
Phire wrote:
Eagles_808 wrote:
Remixxxxxxx wrote:
It'd be easier to say "even a blind squirel finds a nut every once in awhile" - but it's possible we could be.

Broadway Joe wrote:
let's give credit when it's deserved like this draft, and not defending players who don't deserve to be.


Good posts guys. Well put.


I call bull crap on BJ's quote.

I see a lot of people attacking players who don't deserve to be attacked.

But in a league where fans send death threats to players who make mistakes in a game, is it all that surprising?


If anything we need to be more critical of this team. I mean here in FF. There's plenty of people who trash people who doesn't deserve to be. But here in FF the majority is the other way around. My post was directed to the fans in here.


Have you ever met a football fan outside FF and tried to talk to them? If you're exposed to the discussion here you're much more knowledgeable than most casual fans.

If you can name all 5 starting offensive linemen on your team, then you are more knowledgeable than the casual fan.

The guys here know who we drafted three years ago by heart.

There's a strong correlation between knowledge of the game and being more fair to players. Casual fans see win and losses. The team wins, they're the greatest team ever. The team loses? They suck.

That's what we don't want to be here.


Actually no I haven't talked to any fans outside this forum. Before I came to FF I was the only Eagles fans I knew in the God forsaken Cowboys loving city.

But I don't mean to be rude or anything, but I feel we are homers in this forum. I mean I like your keeping it cool philosophy and actually admire it. I wish I could be like that after so much heartbreak.

But being optimistic doesn't mean we have to tolerate crap or that things are good when they aren't. We wait too much to call someone out when they aren't performing (unless that someone is Vick), we seem to believe we have a better coach than we really do, we try to justify their shortcomings way too much. The only way people seem to know when someone is bad or doesn't deserve to be on this team is when they are gone, which is usually way overdue. Like with McDermott.

As I said in my other post we owe this team nothing, we are their consumers and as such we should demand excellence, specially us Eagles fans who have fallen short too many times and disappointed way more. We have 0 trophies and teams have been passing us by left and right, we should demand just the best.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:
Defenses get paid to create turnovers. I don't know where this mentality surrounding the Eagles fanbase and Philly media grew where these turnovers are looked upon as "accidents." Laughing "Oops my bad, another turnover." Sorry, NFL defenses are staffed with trained professionals skilled in creating turnovers.

I don't see anyone here painting the Eagles defense as "taking advantage of the opponents accidents." So why treat the Eagles offense as anything less than a team getting beat by defenses? Logic... Never allow your fandom get in the way of that.

Defenses are keeping the Eagles out of the endzone AND making the Eagles turn the ball over. But many of you have this ignorant mentality of "well if we didn't turn the ball over we would have scored." BS!


Well we're 2-1, so we outscored teams in two games and failed to in one (where Maclin didn't play).

So we're scoring points. And moving the ball, as you admitted. And several turnovers we've had were unforced, meaning yes, the opposing offense has had some turnovers by accident.

Furthermore, the debate is whether Avant is the biggest fish to fry or not. The fact that you're ignoring the original argument is evidence that you've lost that argument.

Next.
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RainbowCarebear wrote:
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Remixxxxxxx


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Remixxxxxxx wrote:
The only two points I was trying to make were that Danny Watkins sucks, there's ZERO reason to defend him. Along with that our expectations as fan base for our draft picks in unacceptable. We literally expect nothing out of our draft picks, if they are still with the team in three/four years it's a success.

What Flecter Cox and Kendricks are doing right now, THAT'S what you should be getting out of high round draft picks - not how Patterson, Graham, or Watkins performed.


I have a request for you and for you only.

Please watch this. Don't worry, it's Youtube and workplace friendly.

Watch Watkins on every play.

And then come back to me and still tell me this guy has no reason to be defended.


I can't watch it at work, no YouTube access here. However, if you're going to tell me Danny Watkins is a good first round selection, we're not going to go anywhere with this discussion. We're talking about a 26 year old mediocre[generous] OG here.

Let us not forget that even bad players have good days, Winston Justice anyone?
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Phire


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broadway Joe wrote:
Phire wrote:
Broadway Joe wrote:
Phire wrote:
Eagles_808 wrote:
Remixxxxxxx wrote:
It'd be easier to say "even a blind squirel finds a nut every once in awhile" - but it's possible we could be.

Broadway Joe wrote:
let's give credit when it's deserved like this draft, and not defending players who don't deserve to be.


Good posts guys. Well put.


I call bull crap on BJ's quote.

I see a lot of people attacking players who don't deserve to be attacked.

But in a league where fans send death threats to players who make mistakes in a game, is it all that surprising?


If anything we need to be more critical of this team. I mean here in FF. There's plenty of people who trash people who doesn't deserve to be. But here in FF the majority is the other way around. My post was directed to the fans in here.


Have you ever met a football fan outside FF and tried to talk to them? If you're exposed to the discussion here you're much more knowledgeable than most casual fans.

If you can name all 5 starting offensive linemen on your team, then you are more knowledgeable than the casual fan.

The guys here know who we drafted three years ago by heart.

There's a strong correlation between knowledge of the game and being more fair to players. Casual fans see win and losses. The team wins, they're the greatest team ever. The team loses? They suck.

That's what we don't want to be here.


Actually no I haven't talked to any fans outside this forum. Before I came to FF I was the only Eagles fans I knew in the God forsaken Cowboys loving city.

But I don't mean to be rude or anything, but I feel we are homers in this forum. I mean I like your keeping it cool philosophy and actually admire it. I wish I could be like that after so much heartbreak.

But being optimistic doesn't mean we have to tolerate crap or that things are good when they aren't. We wait too much to call someone out when they aren't performing (unless that someone is Vick), we seem to believe we have a better coach than we really do, we try to justify their shortcomings way too much. The only way people seem to know when someone is bad or doesn't deserve to be on this team is when they are gone, which is usually way overdue. Like with McDermott.

As I said in my other post we owe this team nothing, we are their consumers and as such we should demand excellence, specially us Eagles fans who have fallen short too many times and disappointed way more. We have 0 trophies and teams have been passing us by left and right, we should demand just the best.


People here sympathize with players not because we're homers.

It's because we're educated and we can identify context and reference similar developments from various years and apply it to our own situation and circumstances.

I was laughing inside while we lost to Arizona. Wasn't Kolb basically shunned by Eagles fans? How he could never win anything. He's terrible. Can't make passes. Things could change fast, and I think they will, but the guy is 3-0 right now in Arizona. He beat his former team after beating Brady and Belichick in their own house.

Not everyone is a sure-fire hall of famer right off the bat.

Don't be a shallow fan. We have fans here who bash the Eagles for holding onto developing players who never develop.

The same fans bash the Eagles for letting good players go who develop later on in their careers.

Some players don't become dominant until later in their years. They aren't at their prime as rookies.

And us calling people out? Go for it, man. I can guarantee we're the only forum on the internet with a "Fire Andy Reid" thread when we were 2-0. We aren't a forum of homers. We are a forum that bashes our team constantly. The homers just have better arguments Wink

What do the Eagles owe me? I stream their games, and bought an Eagles hat once like 4 years ago. Sweet, do they owe me a Super Bowl?

The Eagles are spending a lot of money and making a lot of changes to give the fans a Championship. How can you deny this? They're reaching out getting elite players from all around the league.

And it's not as simple as firing the status quo. Do you remember me talking about context and making references to similar developments from around the league?

Were the Broncos better off letting Shanahan go and going with Josh McDaniels?

Were the Boston Red Sox better off letting Francona go and going with Bobby Valentine?

Fans should be cautious about making rash decisions.

Some kids only care about the presents on Christmas.

Me? I enjoy the family dinners, and seeing my family happy on Christmas. Sure the presents (Super Bowl) are great, but there are ways to appreciate the game without winning a Super Bowl every season which is freaking impossible regardless of who is at HC, QB, RB, or whatever.

It is seriously pointless to criticize little parts of a team under the salary cap. Only 3 teams are undefeated. that means 29 other teams have suffered losses already. Teams lose. We will lose a lot. And we will continue to lose as long as you watch this game, but at some point, we might get lucky and win it all.

Nobody is stopping you from criticizing the team. It's good. We should be overcritical of our team. We root for them, we want excellence. All things I agree with.

I disagree with the rashness some display in achieving healthy criticism.
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Think about this phire. I am the real chow.

RainbowCarebear wrote:
Only for the quick and lucky.

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Phire


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remixxxxxxx wrote:
Phire wrote:
Remixxxxxxx wrote:
The only two points I was trying to make were that Danny Watkins sucks, there's ZERO reason to defend him. Along with that our expectations as fan base for our draft picks in unacceptable. We literally expect nothing out of our draft picks, if they are still with the team in three/four years it's a success.

What Flecter Cox and Kendricks are doing right now, THAT'S what you should be getting out of high round draft picks - not how Patterson, Graham, or Watkins performed.


I have a request for you and for you only.

Please watch this. Don't worry, it's Youtube and workplace friendly.

Watch Watkins on every play.

And then come back to me and still tell me this guy has no reason to be defended.


I can't watch it at work, no YouTube access here. However, if you're going to tell me Danny Watkins is a good first round selection, we're not going to go anywhere with this discussion. We're talking about a 26 year old mediocre[generous] OG here.

Let us not forget that even bad players have good days, Winston Justice anyone?


I'm not saying he's a good first round selection.

I'm saying you're wrong in saying he can't be defended. This is the kind of blind rashness I'm talking about.

Check the game film. Watkins had a good game. Grounds to be defended.
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theuntouchable wrote:
Think about this phire. I am the real chow.

RainbowCarebear wrote:
Only for the quick and lucky.

Danish proverb 3:69
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Remixxxxxxx


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm not saying he's a good first round selection.

I'm saying you're wrong in saying he can't be defended. This is the kind of blind rashness I'm talking about.

Check the game film. Watkins had a good game. Grounds to be defended.


Like I said before, even a blind squirell finds a nut everyone once in awhile. Just because he MAY have had one good game, doesn't change the fact that he's been below average since we drafted him.

I'm saying you're wrong in defending him. If you draft an offensive guard[a low value spot in the first place] in the first round, you expect to get a great player, we've gotten a bad player. We have come to expect bad play from our draft picks, and you defending that proves it.

I would guarantee that if Jarrett was still on the team, you guys would defend him.
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RainbowCarebear


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire just murdered it.
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