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stillersenat
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 9655
Location: In over my head.
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 Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Good work, keth. Keep'em coming.
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mosteelers
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 1145
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| kethnaab wrote: | | mosteelers wrote: | I actually missed this play, so I am at a disadvantage not seeing it live, but there are some things wrong with your breakdown.
1. Notice we are balanced. I am assuming that since we are balanced and the Raiders are not. Snack is supposed to play harder to the strong side. I don't know, but this is usually how the two gap system works. Notice how Farrior goes to the outside of the OT. This is his job and the NT and DE/DT (in this case) play to the strong side gap. Snack doesn't get knocked off the LOS and maintains his gap integrity. He can play to the strong side A gap but doesn't commit yet because the back is cutting the play back. |
it was a zone stretch. You move down the line and keep your shoulders square. Problem is, you need to be able to stop that cutback, and Hampton doesn't. He didn't maintain gap control because he was being controlled.
i assume by 'farrior' you meant 'foote', and I said that he did his job perfectly Yep, meant Foote, sorry. I didn't see the play so I have no idea except the pictures and it looks like Hampton didn't get blown back from the LOS, so I , probably incorrectly assumed, he did his job. On every play guys have "fast play" and "slow play" responsibilities. My point was, based on formation Hampton probably had to play Strong A "faster" than Weak A. Just a guess.
| mosteelers wrote: | | 3. The LG and LT do NOT have the DE and OLB on a stretch play away. They have the DE and ILB on the back side. Since Timmons runs to his right the LG motors down to block him. In this case, every offense in the world on the play would leave the backside OLB alone. |
except the ILB came around the backside. If Timmons comes through the hole, guess what? That's 2 bodies filling the gap that McFadden ran through. Since Timmons went around the LT to the outside, Brisiel and Veldheer basically had to stand there and wall everybody off, rather than take on anybody at the point of attack
My point was that I thought you meant the responsibilities of the LG and LT are to automatically block the DE and OLB. Zone calls for them to play guys in their responsible area and they would probably never block the backside OLB and almost always end up blocking the ILB. I am surprised the LG even stopped. He probably should have kept on his track and headed up field.
| mosteelers wrote: | | 4. Which leads me to my point. IF Timmons is on a blitz. Then either this is a horrible call, because there is no one for backside A gap, or someone in the secondary didn't do their job covering up the backside A gap and Keisel did a horrible job not covering the B gap. |
agreed with you there mo.
Timmons was definitely blitzing. Rewatched multiple times. problem is that Palmer audibled out of the play to a run play, and everybody on the defense seemed to know it except Timmons. Even after visually seeing McFadden get the ball and go to his right, Timmons STILL went around LT, away from the play.
McClendon is a 1-gap guy, purely. Right now, Casey Hampton offers nothing in the way of run support or pass rush
I only finished the first quarter of the all-22, and I had Wisniewski stoning him 1v1 on 3 plays, and shutting him down on the 4th play. Those are all 1v1 in the first quarter. It was quite obvious they didn't feel the need to double Snack much.
it is also quite plain to me that Keisel is stealing a paycheck. Veldheer absolutely ate him alive, about as badly as Wisniewski owned Hampton. |
By the way, good job bringing the breakdowns. The all 22 is now on my wish list next year.
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JustPlainNasty
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 6363
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Keth howd you get the photos?
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at23steelers
Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| JustPlainNasty wrote: | | Keth howd you get the photos? |
hacks into Tomlin's computer! |
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kethnaab
Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 6981
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| mosteelers wrote: | | kethnaab wrote: | | mosteelers wrote: | I actually missed this play, so I am at a disadvantage not seeing it live, but there are some things wrong with your breakdown.
1. Notice we are balanced. I am assuming that since we are balanced and the Raiders are not. Snack is supposed to play harder to the strong side. I don't know, but this is usually how the two gap system works. Notice how Farrior goes to the outside of the OT. This is his job and the NT and DE/DT (in this case) play to the strong side gap. Snack doesn't get knocked off the LOS and maintains his gap integrity. He can play to the strong side A gap but doesn't commit yet because the back is cutting the play back. |
it was a zone stretch. You move down the line and keep your shoulders square. Problem is, you need to be able to stop that cutback, and Hampton doesn't. He didn't maintain gap control because he was being controlled.
i assume by 'farrior' you meant 'foote', and I said that he did his job perfectly Yep, meant Foote, sorry. I didn't see the play so I have no idea except the pictures and it looks like Hampton didn't get blown back from the LOS, so I , probably incorrectly assumed, he did his job. On every play guys have "fast play" and "slow play" responsibilities. My point was, based on formation Hampton probably had to play Strong A "faster" than Weak A. Just a guess.
no problemo brosephus, I knew what ya meant.  Yeah, Hampton got really punked. You are correct he had to move strongside, but he didn't just "move" there, he got skated there and was completely immobile to stop it once the cutback occured. Bottom line, Wisniewski controlled Casey 1v1, not the other way around. Very easy to see in motion, tough to capture just in photos though.
| mosteelers wrote: | | 3. The LG and LT do NOT have the DE and OLB on a stretch play away. They have the DE and ILB on the back side. Since Timmons runs to his right the LG motors down to block him. In this case, every offense in the world on the play would leave the backside OLB alone. |
except the ILB came around the backside. If Timmons comes through the hole, guess what? That's 2 bodies filling the gap that McFadden ran through. Since Timmons went around the LT to the outside, Brisiel and Veldheer basically had to stand there and wall everybody off, rather than take on anybody at the point of attack
My point was that I thought you meant the responsibilities of the LG and LT are to automatically block the DE and OLB. Zone calls for them to play guys in their responsible area and they would probably never block the backside OLB and almost always end up blocking the ILB. I am surprised the LG even stopped. He probably should have kept on his track and headed up field.
not always and not automatically, except that before the play, Palmer hard counted and caught Carter and Timmons cheating on the blitz, and Keisel and Hampton both shifting to their left hard. THAT was what would've created Timmons' blitzing lane. However, and this is the 'incriminating evidence' that Timmons f'ed up...BOTH Keisel and Hampton went BACK to their original, non-blitzing positions. Timmons had NO blitzing lane, and yet he blitzed anyway. he ran the same play AFTER Palmer's audible, despite everybody else going back to what amounts to a standard base defense. EVERYBODY knew, except Timmons. That means he either didn't understand his assignment, or he screwed up his assignment, or he simply picked a painfully bad angle and sacrificed an enormous cutback lane against a Zone blocking system on a zone stretch right.
| mosteelers wrote: | | 4. Which leads me to my point. IF Timmons is on a blitz. Then either this is a horrible call, because there is no one for backside A gap, or someone in the secondary didn't do their job covering up the backside A gap and Keisel did a horrible job not covering the B gap. |
agreed with you there mo.
Timmons was definitely blitzing. Rewatched multiple times. problem is that Palmer audibled out of the play to a run play, and everybody on the defense seemed to know it except Timmons. Even after visually seeing McFadden get the ball and go to his right, Timmons STILL went around LT, away from the play.
McClendon is a 1-gap guy, purely. Right now, Casey Hampton offers nothing in the way of run support or pass rush
I only finished the first quarter of the all-22, and I had Wisniewski stoning him 1v1 on 3 plays, and shutting him down on the 4th play. Those are all 1v1 in the first quarter. It was quite obvious they didn't feel the need to double Snack much.
it is also quite plain to me that Keisel is stealing a paycheck. Veldheer absolutely ate him alive, about as badly as Wisniewski owned Hampton. |
By the way, good job bringing the breakdowns. The all 22 is now on my wish list next year. |
I'm really liking the All-22.
JPN, I get the photos from the All-22/Coaches' film on NFL.com. My Mom got it for me as a "welcome home" present when I got back from Afghanistan this summer.
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Gunny Highway
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 1353
Location: BLEEDING BLACK AND GOLD
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The Curtain wrote: | Mundy is awful. Can talk about how DMac should of won that battle, but there's an opportunity for an unproven player to step up and make a play. He was embarrassed, instead.
That's an interesting analysis though, I appreciate it. Would love to see this every week for a key play or two. |
Mundy is awful. Bad angles CONSTANTLY !!! It's like he never learned pursuit drill in high school...
The guy just doesn't get it. It actually irked me immensely to hear Tomlin refer to him as the 12th Starter
Tomlin insincere spin does not become you
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3rivers
Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 1692
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| at23steelers wrote: | | JustPlainNasty wrote: | | Keth howd you get the photos? |
hacks into Tomlin's computer! |
is that why LeBeau/Mitchell aren't getting them  |
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3rivers
Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 1692
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| at23steelers wrote: | | JustPlainNasty wrote: | | Keth howd you get the photos? |
hacks into Tomlin's computer! |
is that why LeBeau/Mitchell aren't getting them |
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at23steelers
Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| 3rivers wrote: | | at23steelers wrote: | | JustPlainNasty wrote: | | Keth howd you get the photos? |
hacks into Tomlin's computer! |
is that why LeBeau/Mitchell aren't getting them |
Precisely, this ROUND-about defensive pegs, I mean problems lies SQUARE on the holes, I mean shoulders of Kethy. |
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kethnaab
Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 6981
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| at23steelers wrote: | | 3rivers wrote: | | at23steelers wrote: | | JustPlainNasty wrote: | | Keth howd you get the photos? |
hacks into Tomlin's computer! |
is that why LeBeau/Mitchell aren't getting them |
Precisely, this ROUND-about defensive pegs, I mean problems lies SQUARE on the holes, I mean shoulders of Kethy. |
*laughs*
at, you're such a schmuck
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