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diehardlionfan


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:37 pm    Post subject: Over rated or under rated? Reply with quote

The Pettigrew thread got me thinking about how fans view the different Lions and their opinions about the individuals. I am curious how fans view the current roster.

Hopefully this doesn't turn into a bicker fest. Lets just simply list the players we feel are over or underrated.

Underrated

1. Brandon Pettigrew. A first round pick that has been a lightening rod for criticism from fans who didn't agree with his draft position. He is a traditional TE being compared to WR's that play the TE position. He has improved every year.

2. Nate Burleson. One of the team veterans. He is a vocal leader. Takes most snaps from the slot and doesn't give up. He fights when contacted and doesn't give up.

3. Jeff Bachus. What can be said about the Iron Man. In the face of yearly criticism from the fans Backus continues to be a starter even with the addition of a first round LT.

4. Cory Williams. Arguably the best DT on the team. A consistent performer who plays in the shadow of Ndamukong Suh.

5. Sammie Lee Hill. A late round gem. His development has been a fantastic surprise. Hopefully the Lions can get the General Lee signed to an extension.

Overrated

1. Mathew Stafford. A first overall pick who has struggled through injuries his first two seasons. His third season was fantastic however he is off to a rough start this year. The problems we witnessed in Staffords first two seasons have resurfaced in year four. His accuracy and mechanics have been questionable and he hasn't protected the ball well, at times. He is a good QB but has a ways to go before he could be considered elite which many fans in the Lions forum already feel he is.

2. Louis Delmas. After a respectable rookie season he hasn't shown any improvement. A poor tackler that doesn't wrap up and seems to be continually injured.

3. Ndamukong Suh. The highly touted DT had a great rookie season but regressed in his sophomore year. Has the potential to be dominant but has to show discipline and develop for rushing techniques.

4. Cliff Avril. Cliff who? Had an effective season rushing the passer but seems invisible this year. His battle with management for a long term contract with significant guarantee's may be affecting his performance. So far his performance indicates management was correct.

5. Nick Fairley. Not much to say about him except when are we going to see the real Nick Fairley.

6. Titus Young. Big things were expected from him this season. So far the only thing he has demonstrated is some flashy uniform changes.
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Lionsfanforever


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going by this season.

Underrated:
Nate Burleson
Sammie Lee Hill
DeAndre Levy

Overrated:
Cliff Avril
Titus Young
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flyguy1609


Joined: 22 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Under Rated:
Lo Jack,
DeAndre Levy
Rob Sims,

Over Rated,
T. Young
Avril
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stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overrated:
Brandon Pettigrew- Most penalized offensive postion player in the entire league, and is touted as a terrific blocker when he actually grades out as a mediocre run-blocking TE. The softest 6'6"- 265 lb NFL player that I know of.

Matthew Stafford- Even I have fallen for the trap. He's still plagued by inaccuracy issues, and is entirely too skittish when it comes to getting Calvin the ball early every damn game.

Defensive Line- It's about time to quit talking about the Lion's DL as one of the tops in the NFL. I watch teams get more pressure rushing 3, than we do rushing 4 every snap. Our DTs have been pressuring QBs, with minimal results though. It's quite obvious that our DEs are mediocre at best, and were clearly the most overrated unit on our team.

Jim Schwartz- The Lion's have appeared disjointed every game thus far, and our offense has not played to it's strengths. It appears the coaching staff is having an identity crisis offensively, and our STs have been inexcusably bad. The blame ultimately lies with Jim IMO.

Underrated:
Offensive Line- This unit has been superb. Aside from a couple mishaps, they've protected Stafford immaculatly, and proved capable of blocking effectively for Leshoure in his first start. So far in this brief season, this unit is our best and brightest light.

Nate Burleson- Leader, competitor, dependable. Many thought him to be disposable, but he's much too important to the chemistry and functionality of this team. Nate's going nowhere anytime soon.

I'd say Titus is overrated, but we've been all over him since game 1. I, like many overrated him going into the season, but his actions during TC and so far this season have eliminated all of the anticipation I once had for him.

On the opposite side of the Titus spectrum is Chris Houston. I'd deem him underrated, but I feel we all realize how talented and important Houston is. He just keeps reminding us every game he plays.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say that DeAndre Levy is ridiculously underrated, and Gosder Cherilus is also underrated. (He gets the Pettigrew treatment, only more extreme.)

I'm going to put Cliff Avril, Ndamukong Suh and Willie Young in the overrated category.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like to give credit where credit is due, and Levy is definitely performing well so far this season. But last season his impact was minimal, and he was easily the worst of that starting LB unit. I don't believe underrated applies in his case, since his career has been so inconsistent.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
I like to give credit where credit is due, and Levy is definitely performing well so far this season. But last season his impact was minimal, and he was easily the worst of that starting LB unit. I don't believe underrated applies in his case, since his career has been so inconsistent.

Saying he was the worst out of Tulloch and Durant is fine, as those are two pretty good players. He was adjusting to moving back to the outside, after adjusting to his move inside. With some consistency, he's back to his 2010 form.
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Locke


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overrated:
Kyle Vandenbosch - The guy has dropped off considerably. There really is no excuse for the guy. I believe when we replace him our defense will improve.
Cliff Avril - I don't see how this guy is worth big money. He plays next to Suh going against right tackles and just isn't producing pre holdout.
Chris Houston - I think he is a good player, however he isn't a number 1 corner in the NFL. If he was our number 2 with a true legit number 1 on the other side of the field he would be solid. It's like the Dallas game last year where they were going after him with Laurent Robinson.
Martin Mayhew - I am probably going to get killed for this. Let me make my case. I'm going to break his era in two halves. 2009-10 and 2011-12. First two drafts were very good, starters across the board. However these last two drafts have a lot of questionmarks. We've spent a lot of resources on players who aren't contributing at this moment. I know injuries happen. I just feel that our team is flawed in the back end to a point where we cannot be a legitimate contender and it is his job to put NFL quality starters out there.

Underrated:
Sammie Lee Hill - He will be a solid starting tackle for somebody one day.
Rob Sims - This guy might be our best offensive lineman, and I never hear his name mentioned for good play.
Calvin Johnson - I think he is still underrated. This guy put maybe 5 wins on the Lions record last year almost single handedly, I think he gets respect in the league but I think he has -by far- the biggest impact on this team's success.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Locke wrote:
Overrated:
Kyle Vandenbosch - The guy has dropped off considerably. There really is no excuse for the guy. I believe when we replace him our defense will improve.
Cliff Avril - I don't see how this guy is worth big money. He plays next to Suh going against right tackles and just isn't producing pre holdout.
Chris Houston - I think he is a good player, however he isn't a number 1 corner in the NFL. If he was our number 2 with a true legit number 1 on the other side of the field he would be solid. It's like the Dallas game last year where they were going after him with Laurent Robinson.
Martin Mayhew - I am probably going to get killed for this. Let me make my case. I'm going to break his era in two halves. 2009-10 and 2011-12. First two drafts were very good, starters across the board. However these last two drafts have a lot of questionmarks. We've spent a lot of resources on players who aren't contributing at this moment. I know injuries happen. I just feel that our team is flawed in the back end to a point where we cannot be a legitimate contender and it is his job to put NFL quality starters out there.

Underrated:
Sammie Lee Hill - He will be a solid starting tackle for somebody one day.
Rob Sims - This guy might be our best offensive lineman, and I never hear his name mentioned for good play.
Calvin Johnson - I think he is still underrated. This guy put maybe 5 wins on the Lions record last year almost single handedly, I think he gets respect in the league but I think he has -by far- the biggest impact on this team's success.

How good would you say Sims is, and how good do you think Lee Hill can one day be?
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RyanFuller003


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Pettigrew is underrated. Unfairly criticized maybe, but I don't think anyone here is calling him the worst TE in the league at this point . . . they're saying he's average, which he is. While he did realize a dramatic improvement from year 1 to year 2, I really haven't seen much improvement out of him since then. His numbers were up a little last year versus 2010, but I think that's largely because we threw so much in 2011.

I'd throw Willie Young onto the list of overrated players. People act as if he'd come in and immediately replace Cliff Avril with no dropoff whatsoever, but Young has done next to nothing in the NFL outside of preseason.

I think most of us overrated Titus going into the season, but right now I think he's in danger of being underrated. He's frustrated us with some big mistakes, but he is still capable of being a playmaker. I think his struggles early on this year owe largely to Stafford's struggles with his accuracy.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RyanFuller003 wrote:
I'd throw Willie Young onto the list of overrated players. People act as if he'd come in and immediately replace Cliff Avril with no dropoff whatsoever, but Young has done next to nothing in the NFL outside of preseason.

Young made plenty of plays during the regular season last year (in the snaps he had).

And, if this year is any indication, he could have stepped in and replaced Avril. Both players really haven't done much. (That was more of a joke, pointing at their overall lack of impact.)
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Locke


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Locke wrote:
Overrated:
Kyle Vandenbosch - The guy has dropped off considerably. There really is no excuse for the guy. I believe when we replace him our defense will improve.
Cliff Avril - I don't see how this guy is worth big money. He plays next to Suh going against right tackles and just isn't producing pre holdout.
Chris Houston - I think he is a good player, however he isn't a number 1 corner in the NFL. If he was our number 2 with a true legit number 1 on the other side of the field he would be solid. It's like the Dallas game last year where they were going after him with Laurent Robinson.
Martin Mayhew - I am probably going to get killed for this. Let me make my case. I'm going to break his era in two halves. 2009-10 and 2011-12. First two drafts were very good, starters across the board. However these last two drafts have a lot of questionmarks. We've spent a lot of resources on players who aren't contributing at this moment. I know injuries happen. I just feel that our team is flawed in the back end to a point where we cannot be a legitimate contender and it is his job to put NFL quality starters out there.

Underrated:
Sammie Lee Hill - He will be a solid starting tackle for somebody one day.
Rob Sims - This guy might be our best offensive lineman, and I never hear his name mentioned for good play.
Calvin Johnson - I think he is still underrated. This guy put maybe 5 wins on the Lions record last year almost single handedly, I think he gets respect in the league but I think he has -by far- the biggest impact on this team's success.

How good would you say Sims is, and how good do you think Lee Hill can one day be?


I would say Sims is the best guard we've had in 10 years, he is entering the prime of his career, top 15 at his position and him and Gosder might be the only two linemen left of this current group in two years.

Hill will be a treat for whichever team gets him. I'd love to keep him to replace Corey Williams, but I see him playing a starter role for somebody else. If you took the names off the jersey and compared Fairley and Hill, I think people would say Hill is the better player but with the college success (pick position) and hype that Fairley has people think he is great and Hill goes unnoticed.
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Lionsfanforever


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Locke wrote:
Overrated:
Kyle Vandenbosch - The guy has dropped off considerably. There really is no excuse for the guy. I believe when we replace him our defense will improve.
Cliff Avril - I don't see how this guy is worth big money. He plays next to Suh going against right tackles and just isn't producing pre holdout.
Chris Houston - I think he is a good player, however he isn't a number 1 corner in the NFL. If he was our number 2 with a true legit number 1 on the other side of the field he would be solid. It's like the Dallas game last year where they were going after him with Laurent Robinson.
Martin Mayhew - I am probably going to get killed for this. Let me make my case. I'm going to break his era in two halves. 2009-10 and 2011-12. First two drafts were very good, starters across the board. However these last two drafts have a lot of questionmarks. We've spent a lot of resources on players who aren't contributing at this moment. I know injuries happen. I just feel that our team is flawed in the back end to a point where we cannot be a legitimate contender and it is his job to put NFL quality starters out there.

Underrated:
Sammie Lee Hill - He will be a solid starting tackle for somebody one day.
Rob Sims - This guy might be our best offensive lineman, and I never hear his name mentioned for good play.
Calvin Johnson - I think he is still underrated. This guy put maybe 5 wins on the Lions record last year almost single handedly, I think he gets respect in the league but I think he has -by far- the biggest impact on this team's success.


I don't think Houston is overrated, I don't think Mayhew is overrated either.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Locke wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Locke wrote:
Overrated:
Kyle Vandenbosch - The guy has dropped off considerably. There really is no excuse for the guy. I believe when we replace him our defense will improve.
Cliff Avril - I don't see how this guy is worth big money. He plays next to Suh going against right tackles and just isn't producing pre holdout.
Chris Houston - I think he is a good player, however he isn't a number 1 corner in the NFL. If he was our number 2 with a true legit number 1 on the other side of the field he would be solid. It's like the Dallas game last year where they were going after him with Laurent Robinson.
Martin Mayhew - I am probably going to get killed for this. Let me make my case. I'm going to break his era in two halves. 2009-10 and 2011-12. First two drafts were very good, starters across the board. However these last two drafts have a lot of questionmarks. We've spent a lot of resources on players who aren't contributing at this moment. I know injuries happen. I just feel that our team is flawed in the back end to a point where we cannot be a legitimate contender and it is his job to put NFL quality starters out there.

Underrated:
Sammie Lee Hill - He will be a solid starting tackle for somebody one day.
Rob Sims - This guy might be our best offensive lineman, and I never hear his name mentioned for good play.
Calvin Johnson - I think he is still underrated. This guy put maybe 5 wins on the Lions record last year almost single handedly, I think he gets respect in the league but I think he has -by far- the biggest impact on this team's success.

How good would you say Sims is, and how good do you think Lee Hill can one day be?


I would say Sims is the best guard we've had in 10 years, he is entering the prime of his career, top 15 at his position and him and Gosder might be the only two linemen left of this current group in two years.

Hill will be a treat for whichever team gets him. I'd love to keep him to replace Corey Williams, but I see him playing a starter role for somebody else. If you took the names off the jersey and compared Fairley and Hill, I think people would say Hill is the better player but with the college success (pick position) and hype that Fairley has people think he is great and Hill goes unnoticed.

Very interesting.

I have to ask: you listed Houston as a solid #2 CB, think Sims is top 15 at his position, and think extremely highly of Hill (and rightfully so). Mayhew acquired those players for a 4th, 5th and 6th round pick.

My point? Mayhew deserves to be graded on more than just the draft. He traded mid-late round picks for great players, and nailed a 4th round selection with another. Having the three of those players on your list, along with Mayhew, seemed a bit... strange.

Just my take.
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Locke


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Locke wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Locke wrote:
Overrated:
Kyle Vandenbosch - The guy has dropped off considerably. There really is no excuse for the guy. I believe when we replace him our defense will improve.
Cliff Avril - I don't see how this guy is worth big money. He plays next to Suh going against right tackles and just isn't producing pre holdout.
Chris Houston - I think he is a good player, however he isn't a number 1 corner in the NFL. If he was our number 2 with a true legit number 1 on the other side of the field he would be solid. It's like the Dallas game last year where they were going after him with Laurent Robinson.
Martin Mayhew - I am probably going to get killed for this. Let me make my case. I'm going to break his era in two halves. 2009-10 and 2011-12. First two drafts were very good, starters across the board. However these last two drafts have a lot of questionmarks. We've spent a lot of resources on players who aren't contributing at this moment. I know injuries happen. I just feel that our team is flawed in the back end to a point where we cannot be a legitimate contender and it is his job to put NFL quality starters out there.

Underrated:
Sammie Lee Hill - He will be a solid starting tackle for somebody one day.
Rob Sims - This guy might be our best offensive lineman, and I never hear his name mentioned for good play.
Calvin Johnson - I think he is still underrated. This guy put maybe 5 wins on the Lions record last year almost single handedly, I think he gets respect in the league but I think he has -by far- the biggest impact on this team's success.

How good would you say Sims is, and how good do you think Lee Hill can one day be?


I would say Sims is the best guard we've had in 10 years, he is entering the prime of his career, top 15 at his position and him and Gosder might be the only two linemen left of this current group in two years.

Hill will be a treat for whichever team gets him. I'd love to keep him to replace Corey Williams, but I see him playing a starter role for somebody else. If you took the names off the jersey and compared Fairley and Hill, I think people would say Hill is the better player but with the college success (pick position) and hype that Fairley has people think he is great and Hill goes unnoticed.

Very interesting.

I have to ask: you listed Houston as a solid #2 CB, think Sims is top 15 at his position, and think extremely highly of Hill (and rightfully so). Mayhew acquired those players for a 4th, 5th and 6th round pick.

My point? Mayhew deserves to be graded on more than just the draft. He traded mid-late round picks for great players, and nailed a 4th round selection with another. Having the three of those players on your list, along with Mayhew, seemed a bit... strange.

Just my take.


What I was trying to articulate over the internet that I was saying Mayhew is overrated based on this last two years of duty. People see him as a god to the front office which I don't agree with hence why he is on my overrated list. Not to derail the thread but his last two years of his job performance has been a step down.
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