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Broncos LB Mays suspended for helmet-to-helmet hit
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Jaytrajik


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
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Location: Odessa/Houston
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
This is exactly what I was trying to say. You can't make an absolute judgement on Mays' intent, and that's why you're trying to do isn't it?


I know you're just defending your own but what other intent could he have had going for a high killshot like that?

Either he had intent to injure or he's very stupid and doesn't understand how to play the game of football at the big boy level. In which case he doesn't need to be in the league because eventually, he's going to get someone seriously hurt.
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Joe_is_the_best


Joined: 31 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
Flipping someone upside down is more dangerous than hitting them straight on no?


There are so many variables that go into every hit. It's impossible to make an absolute judgment on which of 2 hits is more dangerous based on a sentence or two of description.
This is exactly what I was trying to say. You can't make an absolute judgement on Mays' intent, and that's why you're trying to do isn't it?


You completely used my quote out of context to make your point. You completely ignored the context actually. Ignored it to a level I've never seen on these forums, in fact.

Not to mention you completely ignored that part that I've made green.
It was still in the context of judging hits wasn't it? My point was, that if Mays was really trying to hurt Schaub, there are much worse things he could have done.
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Joe_is_the_best


Joined: 31 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaytrajik wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
This is exactly what I was trying to say. You can't make an absolute judgement on Mays' intent, and that's why you're trying to do isn't it?


I know you're just defending your own but what other intent could he have had going for a high killshot like that?

Either he had intent to injure or he's very stupid and doesn't understand how to play the game of football at the big boy level. In which case he doesn't need to be in the league because eventually, he's going to get someone seriously hurt.
Mays was trying to make a hard hit, nothing more. It doesn't help that he doesn't know how to tackle. I don't think you can judge intent from his unwillingness to make a form tackle. Not making a form tackle doesn't mean you were trying to injure the person.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
Flipping someone upside down is more dangerous than hitting them straight on no?


There are so many variables that go into every hit. It's impossible to make an absolute judgment on which of 2 hits is more dangerous based on a sentence or two of description.
This is exactly what I was trying to say. You can't make an absolute judgement on Mays' intent, and that's why you're trying to do isn't it?


You completely used my quote out of context to make your point. You completely ignored the context actually. Ignored it to a level I've never seen on these forums, in fact.

Not to mention you completely ignored that part that I've made green.
It was still in the context of judging hits wasn't it?
What I said was in the context of judging how dangerous a specific hit is compared to another. Not in the context of judging a hit's intent. How you connected the dots there is beyond me.
Quote:

My point was, that if Mays was really trying to hurt Schaub, there are much worse things he could have done.
Of course. That doesn't prove he wasn't taking a cheapshot on Schaub, trying knock him out. That logic doesn't make any sense.

I could hurt someone by sneaking up on them and knocking them out with a brick, it doesn't mean I'm not trying to hurt them because I sneak up behind them and hit them with my bare hand.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
Jaytrajik wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
This is exactly what I was trying to say. You can't make an absolute judgement on Mays' intent, and that's why you're trying to do isn't it?


I know you're just defending your own but what other intent could he have had going for a high killshot like that?

Either he had intent to injure or he's very stupid and doesn't understand how to play the game of football at the big boy level. In which case he doesn't need to be in the league because eventually, he's going to get someone seriously hurt.
Mays was trying to make a hard hit, nothing more. It doesn't help that he doesn't know how to tackle. I don't think you can judge intent from his unwillingness to make a form tackle. Not making a form tackle doesn't mean you were trying to injure the person.


Why else would you aim for a QBs head, make no attempt to go low, and make no attempt to wrap up on a hit?
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dbtb135


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
Flipping someone upside down is more dangerous than hitting them straight on no?


There are so many variables that go into every hit. It's impossible to make an absolute judgment on which of 2 hits is more dangerous based on a sentence or two of description.
This is exactly what I was trying to say. You can't make an absolute judgement on Mays' intent, and that's why you're trying to do isn't it?


You completely used my quote out of context to make your point. You completely ignored the context actually. Ignored it to a level I've never seen on these forums, in fact.

Not to mention you completely ignored that part that I've made green.
It was still in the context of judging hits wasn't it? My point was, that if Mays was really trying to hurt Schaub, there are much worse things he could have done.


Your reasoning is that what he did wasn't dirty, because there were worse things he could have done. Do you REALLY not see the flaw in that? If I walk up to you on the street and punch you in the face, and the cops come, and I say "If I was really trying to hurt him, I could have stabbed him." Is anybody going to think that makes sense?!

I mean, I'd be at a loss for words if you weren't a Broncos fan. And even then, it's pretty clearly grasping at straws. Most agreed that it was a bad hit, a very dangerous hit even before the league came down on him. Arguing that it can't be proven that he had bad intentions, and that rather he's too incompetent in his form to not put the QB in danger there is kinda splitting hairs.
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Joe_is_the_best


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
Flipping someone upside down is more dangerous than hitting them straight on no?


There are so many variables that go into every hit. It's impossible to make an absolute judgment on which of 2 hits is more dangerous based on a sentence or two of description.
This is exactly what I was trying to say. You can't make an absolute judgement on Mays' intent, and that's why you're trying to do isn't it?


You completely used my quote out of context to make your point. You completely ignored the context actually. Ignored it to a level I've never seen on these forums, in fact.

Not to mention you completely ignored that part that I've made green.
It was still in the context of judging hits wasn't it?
What I said was in the context of judging how dangerous a specific hit is compared to another. Not in the context of judging a hit's intent. How you connected the dots there is beyond me.
Quote:

My point was, that if Mays was really trying to hurt Schaub, there are much worse things he could have done.
Of course. That doesn't prove he wasn't taking a cheapshot on Schaub, trying knock him out. That logic doesn't make any sense.

I could hurt someone by sneaking up on them and knocking them out with a brick, it doesn't mean I'm not trying to hurt them because I sneak up behind them and hit them with my bare hand.
I admit that it was lazy intellect on my part.

My point was that if he wanted to reallyhurt Schaub, he could have. Is that bad logic?

If Mays was head hunting, then why did he go just under the facemask, instead of straight at Shaubs head? An inch or 2 lower and he hits Schaub in the chest. Or is Mays aim that good?
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dbronx42


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanna bring up that Joe Mays apologized to Schaub 2 times. Once after the game and then again on Monday. He is not a dirty player at all. Is actually one of the nicest guys you'll meet that plays professional sports.

He is a thumper. In today's NFL i can totally see why the flagged him and fined him $50,000. But i do not think a suspension was needed at all...

Joe Mays is a very short 5'11.

Matt Schaub is 6'5.

Mays obviously had no intent of taking a piece of Matt's ear off. But when he finished with his follow through on the throw it lowered him down to Joe's size and it was a monster collision. But it was a bang-bang play. Wasn't a late hit and Mays didn't intentionally lead with his helmet like a spear. I would call Von Miller's hit on Schaub the play before that a much worse collision, and i'm surprised he didn't get fined himself for that.

In today's NFL you have to do something when a hit like that happens. I understand that as a Broncos fan. I just dont like the people who call Joe dirty.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If Mays was head hunting, then why did he go just under the facemask, instead of straight at Shaubs head?
He did hit him straight in the head. Under the face mask in an upward direction is about as straight at the head as it gets. He clearly lunges upward at the last second, why do that if you're not targeting the head?



Quote:
My point was that if he wanted to reallyhurt Schaub, he could have. Is that bad logic?
He took a chunk of his ear off. The only thing that stopped it from being worse was that Shaubs helmet flew off, and that absorbed a ton of the impact.

Quote:
But when he finished with his follow through on the throw it lowered him down to Joe's size and it was a monster collision
If Joe would've got low and made a true form tackle, it wouldn't have mattered. If a 5' 11" LBer is hitting a 6' 5" in the head while the QB is standing pretty much straight up, the LBer isn't making a good tackle.

Quote:
Mays didn't intentionally lead with his helmet like a spear
What? here's the clip again.



How can you say he's not intentionally leading with his helmet?
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mse326


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dbronx42 wrote:
I just wanna bring up that Joe Mays apologized to Schaub 2 times. Once after the game and then again on Monday. He is not a dirty player at all. Is actually one of the nicest guys you'll meet that plays professional sports.

He is a thumper. In today's NFL i can totally see why the flagged him and fined him $50,000. But i do not think a suspension was needed at all...

Joe Mays is a very short 5'11.

Matt Schaub is 6'5.

Mays obviously had no intent of taking a piece of Matt's ear off. But when he finished with his follow through on the throw it lowered him down to Joe's size and it was a monster collision. But it was a bang-bang play. Wasn't a late hit and Mays didn't intentionally lead with his helmet like a spear. I would call Von Miller's hit on Schaub the play before that a much worse collision, and i'm surprised he didn't get fined himself for that.

In today's NFL you have to do something when a hit like that happens. I understand that as a Broncos fan. I just dont like the people who call Joe dirty.


tylerdouglass hit the rest of the absurdity, so I'll answer the bolded.

Fines don't generally come until Friday. They'll be a FedEx envelope in his locker.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in case anyone missed the hit, here it is




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Joe_is_the_best


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Quote:
If Mays was head hunting, then why did he go just under the facemask, instead of straight at Shaubs head?
He did hit him straight in the head. Under the face mask in an upward direction is about as straight at the head as it gets. He clearly lunges upward at the last second, why do that if you're not targeting the head?

Well you're just wrong then.





He clearly goes under the facemask, not straight at the helmet. Still obviously illegal and fineable, but I question those saying he was going for a killshot, whatever that means.
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dbtb135


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
Well you're just wrong then.





He clearly goes under the facemask, not straight at the helmet. Still obviously illegal and fineable, but I question those saying he was going for a killshot, whatever that means.


Well, there's your proof Texans fans. Ignore the fact that these pics are of after the Mays hit....
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Quote:
If Mays was head hunting, then why did he go just under the facemask, instead of straight at Shaubs head?
He did hit him straight in the head. Under the face mask in an upward direction is about as straight at the head as it gets. He clearly lunges upward at the last second, why do that if you're not targeting the head?

Well you're just wrong then.





He clearly goes under the facemask, not straight at the helmet. Still obviously illegal and fineable, but I question those saying he was going for a killshot, whatever that means.


Is hitting someone in the chin while lunging your head upward towards their head any better than hitting them directly in the head?

Tell me, what was Mays trying to do on that play?
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Joe_is_the_best


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He didn't lunge his head upwards.. I don't even know what video you're watching. Didn't say it was better, just simply refuting your assertion.

He was trying to make a big hit, he made a mistake. If you think he was trying to knock Schaub to IR fine, but don't act like there was clear intent there. Mays was obviously surprised at what he had done, but no amount of argument will convince you, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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