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stylish313


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stop dropping clean receptions, and I can live with the more tightly defended drops even though he's monstrous and allows little guys to bother him too often.

On top of that, how about not being the most penalized offensive position player? His pass blocking is already where it needs to be, but his run blocking has been heavily overrated in this forum. But let's see how that works out when he's blocking for Leshoure and Bell.

It doesn't appear based on three games, that most of what I wanna see from him will materialize, but I don't think I'm asking for too much from the former 1st rounder.
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RyanFuller003


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
The unbelievably frustrating part for me is that I do believe Grew has the skills to be one of the elite TEs, he just gets in his own way too often with boneheaded plays and lapses in concentration, often at the worst possible times.

I don't think he does though. He's pretty much useless after the catch and he's just too slow to get more than 5-10 yards off the line of scrimmage in a reasonable amount of time (especially considering he's usually chipping & releasing when he does go out as a receiver). That's why he averages only 10 yards per catch in his career. And what the heck is with his instinct to try hurdling everyone all the time? For being 265 lbs., he just goes down way too easily. I guess no one ever taught him to throw a stiff arm or lower his shoulder.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
Stop dropping clean receptions, and I can live with the more tightly defended drops even though he's monstrous and allows little guys to bother him too often.

On top of that, how about not being the most penalized offensive position player? His pass blocking is already where it needs to be, but his run blocking has been heavily overrated in this forum. But let's see how that works out when he's blocking for Leshoure and Bell.

It doesn't appear based on three games, that most of what I wanna see from him will materialize, but I don't think I'm asking for too much from the former 1st rounder.

Very reasonable.
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X_Factor_40


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to start a new thread regarding this article but I couldn't think of a way to spin it to justify a new Pettigrew thread. But, I found it interesting.


Detroit Lions TE Brandon Pettigrew has 'outstanding hands' according to coach Jim Schwartz


Quote:
The pair of drops give Pettigrew three this year. It's a surprising return to an issue that plagued him his first two seasons, but seemed to vanish in 2011 when he allowed just six passes hit the turf despite being targeted 126 times.


Quote:
Coach Jim Schwartz defended Pettigrew on Monday, saying the tight end has "outstanding hands."

Quote:
"When he does drop a pass it's generally a result of trying to do too much too soon, trying to turn to get in position to get up the field and not seeing the catch all the way through before he does," Schwartz said. "Brandon has a great pass-catching radius. He's really big, he has really good hands, you've seen some of the catches. He has very sure hands."


Quote:
"Brandon is a pretty ball-secure guy," Schwartz said. "He doesn't fumble very much. The guy made a great play, ripped the ball away from him. I'm not concerned about that happening continually with Brandon."


Any thoughts on the article?
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's really nothing else to say. We all just want him to do what he's supposed to do, and stop with the nonsense penalties and apparent clean receptions.

The rest will hopefully come with continued development.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only six drops out of 126 targets is EXTREMELY impressive.

Phreak: you claimed he's good for two blatant drops per game. Any response to this?
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Only six drops out of 126 targets is EXTREMELY impressive.

Phreak: you claimed he's good for two blatant drops per game. Any response to this?

Sure. I have seen more than that. You have too.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Only six drops out of 126 targets is EXTREMELY impressive.

Phreak: you claimed he's good for two blatant drops per game. Any response to this?

Sure. I have seen more than that. You have too.

I have seen a handful of tough drops where he goes over the middle, catches a pass away from his body and gets blasted immediately. I have seen few drops where he simply doesn't catch a well-thrown ball, without contact. That is the truth.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Only six drops out of 126 targets is EXTREMELY impressive.

Phreak: you claimed he's good for two blatant drops per game. Any response to this?

Sure. I have seen more than that. You have too.


He had 12 drops in 2010 and six drops last year.

Not much to dispute.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

X_Factor_40 wrote:
I wanted to start a new thread regarding this article but I couldn't think of a way to spin it to justify a new Pettigrew thread. But, I found it interesting.


Detroit Lions TE Brandon Pettigrew has 'outstanding hands' according to coach Jim Schwartz


Quote:
The pair of drops give Pettigrew three this year. It's a surprising return to an issue that plagued him his first two seasons, but seemed to vanish in 2011 when he allowed just six passes hit the turf despite being targeted 126 times.


Quote:
Coach Jim Schwartz defended Pettigrew on Monday, saying the tight end has "outstanding hands."

Quote:
"When he does drop a pass it's generally a result of trying to do too much too soon, trying to turn to get in position to get up the field and not seeing the catch all the way through before he does," Schwartz said. "Brandon has a great pass-catching radius. He's really big, he has really good hands, you've seen some of the catches. He has very sure hands."


Quote:
"Brandon is a pretty ball-secure guy," Schwartz said. "He doesn't fumble very much. The guy made a great play, ripped the ball away from him. I'm not concerned about that happening continually with Brandon."


Any thoughts on the article?


Not much can be said. The response from Lion fans will be Schwartz is only sticking up for his player.

No matter what gets said that's positive about Pettigrew fans in this forum will simply try to invalidate it.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RyanFuller003 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
RyanFuller003 wrote:
Pettigrew is 27 . . . he's not likely to improve too much at this point. He's in his prime right now, so if anything I'd expect his play to decline after the next year or two.

I don't really agree here: blocking is something that often improves with age, strength gain and experience.

Do you think it's possible that Pettigrew actually has great hands, but also has lapses in concentration? And that the experience in dealing with game situations could lead to fewer of those concentration drops?

RyanFuller003 wrote:
It's mostly just about whether or not you're happy about the fact that the team used a top-20 pick on a second-tier player. And I know at this point the pick is a sunk cost, so who cares where he was picked, but it's always going to color one's perception of him.

I want players that play well. Pettigrew does that, so I absolutely think he was worth the pick.


TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
A 1rd TE absolutely should be a top 5 TE.

You mean "top 5 ability-wise" or "one of the top 5 players at his position"?

Serious question.

There's a lot of good tight ends in the league right now, so while I don't necessarily think it's fair to expect him to develop into one of the top five TEs in the league, I think you should at least be able to compare him to the better throwback types of TE in the league. I mean the types that are both blockers and receivers, not necessarily the Hernandez, Graham, or Gates types that are going to put up big numbers, but can't stand up to the challenge of blocking.

Vernon Davis came in as an athlete that had to learn how to be an in-line TE, and he's become a great blocker in time while still maintaining his skills as a downfield receiver. Witten came in primarily as a blocker, and he's developed into not only a great route runner, but also a player that you have to respect after the catch because he powers through defenders. Gronkowski is also a complete tight end, and while his blocking isn't superb, it's very good and more importantly, he puts up elite WR numbers to boot.

Pettigrew is a lot closer to Heath Miller, Daniel Graham, or Marcedes Lewis (all of whom were also first-round picks). He plays every down, but unlike the three aforementioned players, Pettigrew plays in a pass-heavy offense so he gets more catches.

I don't think he's top five ability-wise or production-wise. Pettigrew was drafted so early because of his maturity; he wasn't some project that would need to learn how to block better, or someone like Jared Cook who was never productive but had athletic talent. He pretty much came into the NFL as a polished NFL tight end. He made a serious improvement from year 1 to year 2, but since then, he's not really taken a step forward. He's still the committing penalties and drops that have frustrated fans since he was drafted, and he's still catching nothing but short passes and producing very little yards after the catch.


Obviously I disagree as I am a Grew supporter. Some of your stats are a bit off. 10% of Grews receptions go for 20+ yards but his yardage is a result of play calls not necessarily his lack of ability. They use him as an outlet a great deal of the time so it's a bit unfair to claim he doesn't catch anything long. He does a good job hauling in longer throws when given the opportunity.

This year Grew has 16 catches and 41 yards after the catch while CJ has 24 grabs and 52 yards after the catch.

So many stats have to be looked at beyond the surface. Their has been an explosion of TE's like Finley who is used more as a WR.

Pettigrew has improved every year in the league. He is off to a tough start this year but it seems most of the players are.
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Only six drops out of 126 targets is EXTREMELY impressive.

Phreak: you claimed he's good for two blatant drops per game. Any response to this?

Sure. I have seen more than that. You have too.


He had 12 drops in 2010 and six drops last year.

Not much to dispute.

No dispute. I know what I saw. Those stats vary from source to source and clearly that is one of the more conservative ones. I don't care what who says, when you are wide open in the middle of the field 5 yards in front of your QB and he hits you in the hands, you got to catch that. I realize Stafford struggles throwing fireballs when he shouldn't, but if you want to be considered a top TE you need to catch that.
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Sllim Pickens


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Only six drops out of 126 targets is EXTREMELY impressive.

Phreak: you claimed he's good for two blatant drops per game. Any response to this?

Sure. I have seen more than that. You have too.


He had 12 drops in 2010 and six drops last year.

Not much to dispute.

No dispute. I know what I saw. Those stats vary from source to source and clearly that is one of the more conservative ones. I don't care what who says, when you are wide open in the middle of the field 5 yards in front of your QB and he hits you in the hands, you got to catch that. I realize Stafford struggles throwing fireballs when he shouldn't, but if you want to be considered a top TE you need to catch that.


I agree. If they have any reason not to credit him with a drop, they don't. He has more than 3 this year. Would they be tough catches? Some of them yes. But he gets paid to make the tough catches. he can't hold onto a ball when being hit, or can't get enough separation from a LB to we're they can't break it up. He had more than 6 last year, easily.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Only six drops out of 126 targets is EXTREMELY impressive.

Phreak: you claimed he's good for two blatant drops per game. Any response to this?

Sure. I have seen more than that. You have too.


He had 12 drops in 2010 and six drops last year.

Not much to dispute.

No dispute. I know what I saw. Those stats vary from source to source and clearly that is one of the more conservative ones. I don't care what who says, when you are wide open in the middle of the field 5 yards in front of your QB and he hits you in the hands, you got to catch that. I realize Stafford struggles throwing fireballs when he shouldn't, but if you want to be considered a top TE you need to catch that.


Every receiver on the team has been victimized not only by Staffords fireballs but also his 5-7 yard sinker where the receiver has to grab it at his shoe laces.
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Only six drops out of 126 targets is EXTREMELY impressive.

Phreak: you claimed he's good for two blatant drops per game. Any response to this?

Sure. I have seen more than that. You have too.


He had 12 drops in 2010 and six drops last year.

Not much to dispute.

No dispute. I know what I saw. Those stats vary from source to source and clearly that is one of the more conservative ones. I don't care what who says, when you are wide open in the middle of the field 5 yards in front of your QB and he hits you in the hands, you got to catch that. I realize Stafford struggles throwing fireballs when he shouldn't, but if you want to be considered a top TE you need to catch that.


Every receiver on the team has been victimized not only by Staffords fireballs but also his 5-7 yard sinker where the receiver has to grab it at his shoe laces.

Wonder if I am still a pariah around here for thinking Stafford's accuracy is a concern.
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