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What does Haslam think?
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LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good thread, good posts by lots of folks, DawgX and FSU in particular.

My opinion? Here goes.

I think a lot of talent is in place, especially offensively. I think patience and experience are needed more than coaching and talent offensively. Do we need upgrades? Sure. Adding a G and FB this offseason wouldn't hurt a thing.

Defensively I think the coaching is there, I just think we need to add some talent. We've invested very heavily in the offense, now it's time to do the same for the D. A DE or two, a 'stud' LB, a starting caliber CB and a FS are needed. Again, there's talent there, we just need to add more to the mix.

As far as Shurmur, I was on board with the guy, but yesterday was rough. No run plays in the entire 4th quarter despite being down only 10? 13 rushing attempts for the game? With that gameplan, you deserve to lose. Also, why punt down 2 scores with 6 minutes to go when you are 0-2?

At some point this team is going to have to puff it's chest out and snatch a damned win. Waiting for the other team to hand it to you isn't going to win you many games in this league.

I'm doing my best not to be labile and flip flop every week based on one performance and one win/loss, but the losses keep piling on and it's hard not to think a change is coming.

What is Haslam thinking? He's probably thinking that we've got 13 more games and there is no need in making any decision now. Will Shurmur be back? Not unless we rattle a few off, starting soon. I think he'll need to win 6 games to even hope to be back. Banner is obviously in and he obviously has a history with Heckert. Hopefully he can see what Heckert is trying to do and has done and retains him. Jauron as well. Seems unlikely though. We'll see.
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DawgX


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

braylonsHands wrote:
This is my problem with your argument, although I don't completely disagree..... The problem with the Texans was not the coaching as much as it was Shawb getting hurt every year. Whenever he is healthy the team is good. Also, I don't think anyone had the idea that Foster was going to be the best RB in the league. When you have him with Tate backing him up and a top 3 WR in Johnson, of course your going to be a good team.....


Schaub missed some of last year but in 2009 & 2010, he played in all 16 games. He wasn't the reason they weren't successful. Foster was one of the best running backs in the 2010-2011 season, yet the Texans were still not a good team. You mentioning Andre Johnson is just helping my argument -- the Texans had talent yet still weren't successful. Therefore, many blamed Kubiak. But Houston's front office stuck with him and he's proven that he's a good head coach.

Like you said, it's too early to tell if Shurmur is a good head coach or not. I'm not claiming he is, but I think it's ridiculous to say that he's definitely a bad head coach at this point.

braylonsHands wrote:
DawgX wrote:
KamTrus20 wrote:
I could see firing Pat Shurmur but then do we ruin everything we have built so far by bringing in a 34 minded head coach? What happens to Phil Taylor, Ahtyba Rubin, John Hughes and Billy Winn who are all more NT size than 5-Tech size? Who plays LB? I don't know that we have a lineback on the team over 230 except Gocong.


Why are you bringing up the 3-4? Even if the coaching staff is fired, that doesn't mean the Browns would switch to the 3-4. Do you think that because of Haslam's connection to the Steelers? If so, just because he was the minority owner of a team who runs the 3-4 doesn't mean he'll have the Browns switch to the 3-4. It's quite clear that Cleveland's personnel is much better suited for the 4-3.

braylonsHands wrote:
I donít know how some of you can still be looking at this glass as half full. If Spiller did not get hurt and that Fitzpatic fumble did not get over turned like it did, we would have gotten completely blown out of the game. Heads will roll in Berea and likely sooner than later.


Because some of us are patient and are realistic. It's funny... the same people who are complaining so much are the same people who I see predict the Browns will win each week. Not once have I predicted for the Browns to win a game so far this season yet I still believe this team is headed in the right direction. They're just incredibly young & inexperienced and they've had a tough schedule. It's going to take time for us to start seeing positive results. I see talent on this team but that talent makes plenty of mistakes. That's what happens when you have such an inexperienced team. As they gain experience, they will make less mistakes and then the Browns will have a better chance at winning.


Dawg,

This is my problem with your argument and I'm sure your living the same thing. I've watched almost every game over the last 10 years and almost every preseason game over the past 5 years. I keep hearing there is always next year and that the team is building for the future.

This is what it boils down to with me. H & H sell me that it will take 3 or more years and they are building for the future and I see the following over the past years (with exception to this most recent years draft)

* Browns have not signed big name free agents
* Browns reach, but not overly reach on players
* Browns trade down towards acquiring more picks to become better in the future.

All of this methodology is consistent and I honestly believe, and many shared my opinion, that we were in a great spot this year in terms of drafting. We get talent around McCoy, see how he does, and if he flops, we have a top 3-5 pick to get a potential star QB.

What did we end up doing..... Reached for a 29 year old QB who does not look like he is good enough to play at this level and mortgage a 2nd round draft pick on a WR who can not run routes. Our last two high receivers drafted went over a year without seeing the field. The sad part is Benjimen looks far better than the other two, yet he is not on the field nearly enough.

This years draft looks like desperation to me and all of these building for the future arguments ended up being H & H's jobs are on the line thinking oh crap, if we don't win now we're gone. This being said, the past two years of building for the future pushing us back even further.

Right now our team looks like crap and I don't understand how fans can look at this with rose covered glasses saying we are going to be OK. Dawg, this isn't directed at you, as much as it is writing my opinion and frustration with this team.


I know we always hear about improving next year and it never happens. But look at the roster this year compared to the roster in past years - the Browns are now much more talented and have much more potential.

There's plenty of successful teams who don't sign big time free agents. It's going to be hard to attract big name free agents without overpaying since the Browns aren't successful. Once they get better, more free agents will want to sign here. Once the Browns are closer to being legitimate contenders, I'm sure the front office will be willing to sign top free agents if they feel they're only a couple of players away.

Most people couldn't wait to get rid of McCoy. I was actually one of the few who would have been fine with him starting this year and seeing if he improved. I'm tired about hearing about Weeden's age. Obviously I'd prefer if he were younger, but it's plenty possible that he'll be able to play for 8-10 years. If he turns out to be a good quarterback, then I'd say 8-10 years of good QB play is well worth the 22nd overall pick in the draft.

There's plenty of successful receivers in the league who played in gimmicky offenses in college. They just typically take longer to adjust to the NFL. As I said before, the jury's out on Greg Little. However, he was second in the league in receptions for rookie wide receivers. You've got to have some talent to be able to do that.

The front office isn't building the team to be okay right now; they're building it to be good in the future. In the meantime, they're going to struggle a bit. That's what happens when your roster is full of young & inexperienced players.
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bigdogsandiego


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haslam is thinking, Did I really pay this much for this Browns team! The fact is H&H&S are on their third year of rebuilding with no sign of improvement from win or any other perspective. The coaches are fine. Most of the players are fine. Every football fan is on record about Heckert's inability to address WR, O line, and D line. Leadership is and was weak with basically absentee owner and Holmgren in retirement mode as there is no fire and or urgency on this team. Come on Mike the QB guru, as your selections Jake, Seneca, Colt, and Brandon are weak. Haslam is an astute business man and his math is sound. H&H must win 6 games(which is not happening) or shown the door. A personnel evaluation will be done at the end of the year by the new mgt team with a new plan. C ya Lamonte!
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DawgX


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigdogsandiego wrote:
Haslam is thinking, Did I really pay this much for this Browns team! The fact is H&H&S are on their third year of rebuilding with no sign of improvement from win or any other perspective. The coaches are fine. Most of the players are fine. Every football fan is on record about Heckert's inability to address WR, O line, and D line. Leadership is and was weak with basically absentee owner and Holmgren in retirement mode as there is no fire and or urgency on this team. Come on Mike the QB guru, as your selections Jake, Seneca, Colt, and Brandon are weak. Haslam is an astute business man and his math is sound. H&H must win 6 games(which is not happening) or shown the door. A personnel evaluation will be done at the end of the year by the new mgt team with a new plan. C ya Lamonte!


I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.

Heckert isn't able to address the defensive line? Hmm... 'cause Sheard, Taylor, Hughes, Winn and Rucker are terrible players, right? Not every football fan is on record saying that he's not capable of drafting defensive linemen. Maybe only football fans who don't know what they're talking about.

I'm sure Haslam thinks that drafting Weeden was a bad idea after three weeks into the season, even though he played really well in week two and was solid again yesterday. What's that tell me? He's progressing. But yeah, Weeden has definitely proven to be a weak draft pick. BTW, Heckert is the one who drafted him.

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Dawgpoun8017


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot
#browns owner Jimmy Haslam watching practice with gm Tom Heckert. Haslam complimented his past 2 drafts tonight.

http://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/233356056363950080/photo/1

lil old but I think important
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fsubrowns9510


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot
#browns owner Jimmy Haslam watching practice with gm Tom Heckert. Haslam complimented his past 2 drafts tonight.

http://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/233356056363950080/photo/1

lil old but I think important


Meh.

Just words til he takes over and we see what he really does with what is here.
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StewieRules


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO, changes will most definitely be made at years end - to watch our beloved team play so poorly at home is a disgrace, there's just no other way to put it.

Holmgren is gone. Frankly, I was more concerned about him than I was/am Shurmur. Holmgren made his mark as a coach, not a GM. And as a GM in Seattle he wasn't very good & Seattle didnt reach the big show until after he was relieved of GM duties and he could concentrate on what he does best - teach. Delhommes signing was a red flag to me right off the bat, and I've seen nothing between then and now that makes me think Holmgren survives.

Heckert can spot talent, though he does tend to over-reach for it, but this idea of his that all name FA's are flawed somehow is nonsense. I'm not saying we have to be the Skins or the Cowboys in name-chasing, but there ARE good young FAs available every year that would help this team, even if we have to overpay some for them initially. SF didnt hesitate in their rebuilding process, and neither should we. We're 3 years into this latest re-do and we have how many rookies starting on offense? How many made the team overall? THAT is what disdain for FA gets you when you're rebuilding. Once the core is set then you can be selective on who you sign, but right now this team needs help, and I frankly dont care where it comes from, all avenues should be considered. I dont want to throw mad money at a 33 year old vet but a 26 yr old promising player is another matter. Heckert has failed in this aspect of talent acquisition.

Regarding Shurmur, I dont care that he has a cool demeanor on the sideline, I dont need a ranter - but the team does need a motivator, and I'm not sure he's it. Scheme-wise I dont have a problem with the WCO, though it takes players time to learn it - I also think our D is fine, we just need some finishing pieces to make it consistent.

The new owner comes from a franchise which is the model of consistency, I suspect that will temper his decisions somewhat. But change is coming, no doubt - a new President and a changed philosophy on bringing in talent is my hope.
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dawgdish


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haslem must be thinking what the rest of us have known for years: it's tough and frustrating being a Browns fan.
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Drew_Carey


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haslem knew he was buying one of the worst teams in the nfl......


He is thinking "all nfl franchises, even the crap ones, increase in value, and how much $ can I invest in improving the team to increase revenue, yet still see annual profits.
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bigdogsandiego


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As all astute business know, follow the money and learn who, what, when, why, and how much. Haslam has money and knows how to run a big business. The big questions will be the product and the management team to implement the plan of winning championships. You can bet $ that Mr Haslam has a plan and Banner looks to be the leader.
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cattleman78


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he is thinking I need to sign Phil Dawson to a multi-year contract.
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nugpimpen


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cattleman78 wrote:
I think he is thinking I need to sign Phil Dawson to a multi-year contract.


Phil Dawson is all that is man
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elfman55


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

StewieRules wrote:
IMO, changes will most definitely be made at years end - to watch our beloved team play so poorly at home is a disgrace, there's just no other way to put it.

Holmgren is gone. Frankly, I was more concerned about him than I was/am Shurmur. Holmgren made his mark as a coach, not a GM. And as a GM in Seattle he wasn't very good & Seattle didnt reach the big show until after he was relieved of GM duties and he could concentrate on what he does best - teach. Delhommes signing was a red flag to me right off the bat, and I've seen nothing between then and now that makes me think Holmgren survives.

Heckert can spot talent, though he does tend to over-reach for it, but this idea of his that all name FA's are flawed somehow is nonsense. I'm not saying we have to be the Skins or the Cowboys in name-chasing, but there ARE good young FAs available every year that would help this team, even if we have to overpay some for them initially. SF didnt hesitate in their rebuilding process, and neither should we. We're 3 years into this latest re-do and we have how many rookies starting on offense? How many made the team overall? THAT is what disdain for FA gets you when you're rebuilding. Once the core is set then you can be selective on who you sign, but right now this team needs help, and I frankly dont care where it comes from, all avenues should be considered. I dont want to throw mad money at a 33 year old vet but a 26 yr old promising player is another matter. Heckert has failed in this aspect of talent acquisition.

Regarding Shurmur, I dont care that he has a cool demeanor on the sideline, I dont need a ranter - but the team does need a motivator, and I'm not sure he's it. Scheme-wise I dont have a problem with the WCO, though it takes players time to learn it - I also think our D is fine, we just need some finishing pieces to make it consistent.

The new owner comes from a franchise which is the model of consistency, I suspect that will temper his decisions somewhat. But change is coming, no doubt - a new President and a changed philosophy on bringing in talent is my hope.


^^^ I agree with this. Holgren as GM is gone, this franchise was stuck in the mud spinning its tires. Holmgren got us out & moving in the right direction but is no longer the right person to get were we need to be.
Motivator is exactly what this team needs. Could big Mike still be a motivator? If he stays with the team it will be standing on the sidelines.
As for Shumur, can we wait for him to learn on the job? This team is young but young teams with strong leadership have won in the NFL before.
As for Heckert IMO he has done a good job in the draft (Iam looking foward to seeing what he does without Holmgren's input). With new cap rules we will be more active signing free agents.
So to the ???, he is 1st & foremost a bussiness man (and very good at it).He will make sound bussiness decissions to get this franchise to were it needs to be.
#1 Mike Holmgren will be relieved of duties as team president.
Heckert will remain with team as GM.
Unless Big Mike agrees to coach Shurmur will stay on as head coach this year(unless it gets so bad we are winless).
2013 we could have a big name coach & sign a few big name FA's

elfman
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