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gmer47brown
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
Posts: 3327
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 Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:39 pm Post subject: I was wrong about Weeden. (Fire Shurmer!!) |
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However, I still don't like the pick and don't think it should have been made. That being said.
He is not as bad as I made him out to be the 5.1 rating doesn't state how good he is and now I'm starting to get a picture of the problem.
Shurmer is the problem. This is the first I've jumped off what he's doing, not that I was a fan but instead tried to be supportive. The 2 interceptions were not Weeden's fault this whole debacle is the fault of the man that coaches the QB and run the team.
We have children running routes and Little can't catch. BRING IN A STINKING VET FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!
Time for Holmgren to step out of the box and step on the field I'm done with the Shurmer experiment.
Those that want to say oh the sky is falling statement go ahead. Something needs to happen, we are a bad football team and Shurmer has made way too many mistakes.
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kelbot
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 2765
Location: Dayton, OH
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: I was wrong about Weeden. (Fire Shurmer!!) |
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| gmer47brown wrote: | However, I still don't like the pick and don't think it should have been made. That being said.
He is not as bad as I made him out to be the 5.1 rating doesn't state how good he is and now I'm starting to get a picture of the problem.
Shurmer is the problem. This is the first I've jumped off what he's doing, not that I was a fan but instead tried to be supportive. The 2 interceptions were not Weeden's fault this whole debacle is the fault of the man that coaches the QB and run the team.
We have children running routes and Little can't catch. BRING IN A STINKING VET FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!
Time for Holmgren to step out of the box and step on the field I'm done with the Shurmer experiment.
Those that want to say oh the sky is falling statement go ahead. Something needs to happen, we are a bad football team and Shurmer has made way too many mistakes. |
The one tangible mistake you mention in this post would be on Heckert (the lack of veteran WRs).
Holmgren's odds of coaching this team are slightly above mine.
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JCBrowns21
Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 965
Location: Chi Town
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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Weeden's not that bad, but don't blame Shurmur. He got the job after 1-year as an OC in St. Louis. This is all on Holmgren & Heckert.
There is a philosophical issue with leadership. Holmgren and Heckert refused to hire a legitimate coach to lead this team. They've forced their draft picks to start or play significant minutes even though many of them were not and are not ready. Composing a team of such young players begs for patience, yet they speak of an urgency to win now.
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Ether
Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 2399
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| JCBrowns21 wrote: | Weeden's not that bad, but don't blame Shurmur. He got the job after 1-year as an OC in St. Louis. This is all on Holmgren & Heckert.
There is a philosophical issue with leadership. Holmgren and Heckert refused to hire a legitimate coach to lead this team. They've forced their draft picks to start or play significant minutes even though many of them were not and are not ready. Composing a team of such young players begs for patience, yet they speak of an urgency to win now. |
True, as well as I believe they've drafted I don't like how the this team is run on the field. Shurmur is a huge part of it, but that hire was a bit of a head scratcher in the first place. I think because of they way we've built this team through the draft and youth it makes us fans want to be more patient with this regime, it continues giving us reason for excitement.
But you can only live off of suspension of disbelief so long before people are going to want tangible results. I'm not off the H&H wagon yet, but I don't think they are giving Haslem much reason to keep them at this point and I think they are getting an unusual amount of slack from a lot of fans here. |
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duke2056
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 9035
Location: Cleveland area
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:47 am Post subject: |
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Shurmur is an idiot, and needs to go. I do not blame him for anything however. He didn't HIRE himself.
If you hire Corky from the show "Life Goes On", are you gonna blame Corky for going 0-16??
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3/18/17 predictions:
Jimmy G stays with New England this year.
We draft Garrett at #1 (out on a limb there).
We trade back from 12 for another 2018 1st.
We do NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds. |
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Estonianzulu
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 27078
Location: Middle of Nowhere VA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| JCBrowns21 wrote: | | Weeden's not that bad, but don't blame Shurmur. He got the job after 1-year as an OC in St. Louis. This is all on Holmgren & Heckert. |
How many years was Mike Tomlin a DC before he was a head coach? How many years was John Harbaugh?
The Hire of Shumur was designed to build a young coach with the young team, thus all the experienced coaches around him. Unfortunately three things have really killed Shurmur.
1. He hasn't been as good as he needs to be.
2. His roster has been exceptionally young (Unlike Pittsburgh and Baltimore where the rosters were already well established)
3. Bad luck- I mean seriously the guy got hired, had a lockout, came back and had his team sold. That's crazy.
He'll be blamed, fired along with everybody else and we'll try yet another approach to hiring a coach and seeing him fail.
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duke2056
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 9035
Location: Cleveland area
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| Estonianzulu wrote: | | JCBrowns21 wrote: | | Weeden's not that bad, but don't blame Shurmur. He got the job after 1-year as an OC in St. Louis. This is all on Holmgren & Heckert. |
How many years was Mike Tomlin a DC before he was a head coach? How many years was John Harbaugh?
The Hire of Shumur was designed to build a young coach with the young team, thus all the experienced coaches around him. Unfortunately three things have really killed Shurmur.
1. He hasn't been as good as he needs to be.
2. His roster has been exceptionally young (Unlike Pittsburgh and Baltimore where the rosters were already well established)
3. Bad luck- I mean seriously the guy got hired, had a lockout, came back and had his team sold. That's crazy.
He'll be blamed, fired along with everybody else and we'll try yet another approach to hiring a coach and seeing him fail. |
There are a lot of things I will give Shurmur the benefit of the doubt on, like the lockout with a young team and new coaches, all young players, and other general roster issues.
However, there is no excuse for mismanaging so many things that middle school coaches can figure out.
I even gave him the benefit of the doubt last year because it was STUPID to have him also calling plays. I felt since he had to also concentrate so much on calling plays that being a new coach, I could easily understand making silly mistakes.
However, I have seen no improvement with his ability to manage anything.
Even with a loaded roster the guy will find a way to mess simple things up and lose us games.
Bye bye Shurmur. And wont lose 1 second of sleep over it.
Also, your comparison to Tomlin and harbaugh is..............terrible. Do you seriously think if they switched places that Shurmur would do just as well as them???? If you do, then there is nothing to discuss, you are just wrong.
_________________
3/18/17 predictions:
Jimmy G stays with New England this year.
We draft Garrett at #1 (out on a limb there).
We trade back from 12 for another 2018 1st.
We do NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds. |
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BooyaCS
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 7520
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| duke2056 wrote: | | Estonianzulu wrote: | | JCBrowns21 wrote: | | Weeden's not that bad, but don't blame Shurmur. He got the job after 1-year as an OC in St. Louis. This is all on Holmgren & Heckert. |
How many years was Mike Tomlin a DC before he was a head coach? How many years was John Harbaugh?
The Hire of Shumur was designed to build a young coach with the young team, thus all the experienced coaches around him. Unfortunately three things have really killed Shurmur.
1. He hasn't been as good as he needs to be.
2. His roster has been exceptionally young (Unlike Pittsburgh and Baltimore where the rosters were already well established)
3. Bad luck- I mean seriously the guy got hired, had a lockout, came back and had his team sold. That's crazy.
He'll be blamed, fired along with everybody else and we'll try yet another approach to hiring a coach and seeing him fail. |
There are a lot of things I will give Shurmur the benefit of the doubt on, like the lockout with a young team and new coaches, all young players, and other general roster issues.
However, there is no excuse for mismanaging so many things that middle school coaches can figure out.
I even gave him the benefit of the doubt last year because it was STUPID to have him also calling plays. I felt since he had to also concentrate so much on calling plays that being a new coach, I could easily understand making silly mistakes.
However, I have seen no improvement with his ability to manage anything.
Even with a loaded roster the guy will find a way to mess simple things up and lose us games.
Bye bye Shurmur. And wont lose 1 second of sleep over it.
Also, your comparison to Tomlin and harbaugh is..............terrible. Do you seriously think if they switched places that Shurmur would do just as well as them???? If you do, then there is nothing to discuss, you are just wrong. |
The problem I am having has nothing to do with playcalling. The play calling is fine it is the execution that sucks.
The main issue is we have talent on the team. It is young talent. That young talent needs a more established coach to keep them in line (which Shurmur is doing an ok job on). The main issue is preparation and the initial scripting of plays.
However I think there is more to this dynamic and that Shurmur is being undermined by someone. I wouldn't be surprised if H&H thought they could hire Shurmur as somewhat of a puppet and Shurmur is fighting back. There is no explanation for not playing Brown week 2. Twitter was blowing up about potential rifts and that Juron was screaming to get Brown in the game and the DB coach refused...
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“From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring; renenwed shall be blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.” -- J R R Tolkien LOTR |
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DaWg_LB.
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 6189
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| BooyaCS wrote: | The problem I am having has nothing to do with playcalling. The play calling is fine it is the execution that sucks.
The main issue is we have talent on the team. It is young talent. That young talent needs a more established coach to............ |
I was trying to find my way around blaming the Coach.....I really was....and I'll sum up my long angry argument in a "Twitter" sort of way.....
Play Calling
Rookie RB #3 pick in the draft Richardson- 12 Carries
Rookie QB #22 pick in the draft w/ #1 Vet/Wr hurt- 43 passes thrown IMO with the 4 sacks, and serveral pass plays called back for penalty Weeden had almost 50 pass plays called for him.....a rookie QB......with a Top 3 pick at RB behind him......
And we were down by ONLY 3 for most of the 2nd half......
That is Plane and Simple on the HC......because even if the OC is calling the plays...if I'm HC, I'm grabbing my OC by the Nuts and looking him dead in the eye and say "Run the football or Forfeit your Sak"......"Because firing you, wont get across just how serious I am...."
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Second Ballot Cleveland Browns Forum Hall of Fame Inductee. |
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gmer47brown
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
Posts: 3327
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Yep and the purely incompetent mistakes made last year and the underneath crap when we need a 1st down driving me nuts.
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ditchdigger
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 19819
Location: Gahanna, OH
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| gmer47brown wrote: | | Yep and the purely incompetent mistakes made last year and the underneath crap when we need a 1st down driving me nuts. |
3rd and 8, down by 10, everyone knows you're gonna pass.
Why not go play-action 3 yard curl to the TE?
Not dumb enough yet? Howzabout we also run the RB up the middle and break out left right where the pass is going so we make sure every LB on the field is nearby.
IT CAN NOT FAIL!!
Oh, it did?
Shocker. |
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duke2056
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 9035
Location: Cleveland area
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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It was a mistake to hire him in the first place, and ridiculously stupid to have him calling plays at the same time.
I have heard people say that the young coach and young players will grow together. Well, that is false. A rookie coach is NOT the best idea for the youngest team in the league. It just isn't.
Players don't just grow and blossom into a great team unless the coach knows what the hell he is doing.
I am not looking at playcalling, scheme, or any of that stuff..............I just look at his inability to manage a game and lead.
He is the kind of coach that will lose a game even though his team outplays the other team.
I hope he is gone soon.
_________________
3/18/17 predictions:
Jimmy G stays with New England this year.
We draft Garrett at #1 (out on a limb there).
We trade back from 12 for another 2018 1st.
We do NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds. |
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Estonianzulu
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 27078
Location: Middle of Nowhere VA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| duke2056 wrote: |
Also, your comparison to Tomlin and harbaugh is..............terrible. Do you seriously think if they switched places that Shurmur would do just as well as them???? If you do, then there is nothing to discuss, you are just wrong. |
No, but I think that if you put Tomlin and Harbaugh in Cleveland with this roster and those circumstances, the outcomes aren't much different. Im not apologizing for Shurmur, he hasn't gotten the job done (see #1) but the comparisons are not invalid.
Mike Tomlin was an average defensive coordinator on a Minnesota team that went 6-10. Harbaugh was a special teams coordinator. If we had hired them, everyone would have screamed to the rafters about how bad the hires were.
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BooyaCS
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 7520
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| DaWg_LB. wrote: | | BooyaCS wrote: | The problem I am having has nothing to do with playcalling. The play calling is fine it is the execution that sucks.
The main issue is we have talent on the team. It is young talent. That young talent needs a more established coach to............ |
I was trying to find my way around blaming the Coach.....I really was....and I'll sum up my long angry argument in a "Twitter" sort of way.....
Play Calling
Rookie RB #3 pick in the draft Richardson- 12 Carries
Rookie QB #22 pick in the draft w/ #1 Vet/Wr hurt- 43 passes thrown IMO with the 4 sacks, and serveral pass plays called back for penalty Weeden had almost 50 pass plays called for him.....a rookie QB......with a Top 3 pick at RB behind him......
And we were down by ONLY 3 for most of the 2nd half......
That is Plane and Simple on the HC......because even if the OC is calling the plays...if I'm HC, I'm grabbing my OC by the Nuts and looking him dead in the eye and say "Run the football or Forfeit your Sak"......"Because firing you, wont get across just how serious I am...." |
See and that is where I disagree. I think we should use the first 10 plays of every half to come out throwing. Make the defense well aware that we are going to throw the ball then when they back off stuff it down their throats with the run.
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“From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring; renenwed shall be blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.” -- J R R Tolkien LOTR |
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Ether
Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 2399
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Estonianzulu wrote: | | duke2056 wrote: |
Also, your comparison to Tomlin and harbaugh is..............terrible. Do you seriously think if they switched places that Shurmur would do just as well as them???? If you do, then there is nothing to discuss, you are just wrong. |
No, but I think that if you put Tomlin and Harbaugh in Cleveland with this roster and those circumstances, the outcomes aren't much different. Im not apologizing for Shurmur, he hasn't gotten the job done (see #1) but the comparisons are not invalid.
Mike Tomlin was an average defensive coordinator on a Minnesota team that went 6-10. Harbaugh was a special teams coordinator. If we had hired them, everyone would have screamed to the rafters about how bad the hires were. |
Define significantly different |
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