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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:02 pm    Post subject: The Hit! Texans Required Response. Reply with quote

As much as JJ Watt deserves every accolade he gets as he rounds into one of the most dominating and complete defensive line players the league has seen since Reggie White, the play that is going to define this Texans season is Matt Schaub taking amongst the hardest, cheapest shots I've ever seen inflicted upon a QB, then returning bloodied up just one play later. If Brady, Manning, or even Ben or Eli takes that hit, it leads every single SportsCenter and football talk today centers upon what jail cell Joe Mays and Jack Del Rio should be sitting in today. We can't control what the press chooses to talk about and I'm sure this week Tim Tebow's name will be again mentioned more than Matt Schaub's, but the Texans need to take some ACTION on behalf of their franchise QB or this season will go down in flames with the next cheap shot on our QB because teams know we can be bullied.

REQUIRED ACTION:
1) Bob McNair needed to be at Goddell's front door this morning. You preach player safety one more time and don't suspend Joe Mays AND Jack Del Rio this morning, McNair should take a standard hole punch to your ear. To hell with bounty-gate, if it wasn't clear that the Broncos were given instructions to injure Texans in that locker room, blatant personal fouls on 3 of 4 plays starting with the Trindon Holiday hit was worse than anything the Saints ever did on the field.

2) Matt Schaub's LAWYER needs to be at Goddell's doorstep this morning with footage of the Jared Allen hits and Haynesworth hits along with actions taken after Brady or Manning hits and demanding equal treatment or he can count on a massive post-career suit itemizing the NFL's selective enforcement of safety rules and how "preferred" players were protected while the Jared Allen's, Haynesworth's, and now Mays/Miller have free reign to headhunt on QBs not deemed big enough stars to warrant action beyond meaningless fines. Understand that when it comes to personal injury cases, the massive judgements (McDonald's hot coffee) don't come as a result of cause-effect damages, it's when the corporation knows the risks and makes the decision to not act on behalf of the wronged party because they feel restricting the dangerous behavior would cause more damage than the resulting lawsuit (McDonalds believed the cost of throwing out old coffee was more than the known risk of keeping coffee at a scalding temperature).

3. Okay, maybe football shouldn't be played out at the commissioners office or courtroom, but I was APPALLED at the lack of response by the Texans to the Holliday and Schaub hits. It should have taken the officials 10 minutes to restore order after the cheap hit on our 5' 5" punt returner better yet 2 straight hits to the head on our QB. There isn't a talking head on the planet who wouldn't have deemed Wade Smith dragging Joe Mays to the sideline by his nut sack as justified and it would have made protecting Matt Schaub part of the national discourse this morning. We were up by 20 points at the time. Who CARES if you nullify a 15 yard penalty with a justified reaction at that point and if you watched the Redskins game, the scab refs didn't even bother throwing a flag on reacting team? I know that Eric Winston regrets not having fought for Schaub on at least two occasions and vowed that there would not be a third. Somebody needs to step up ON THE FIELD as his personal protector much like Antonio Smith did on Kevin Mawae two years ago and AJ did on Finnegan. Enough is enough!

4. Gary Kubiak. Enough of the nice guy act. If you are going to win championships you need to step up and work all angles of this game. The first words of your post game news conference ought to have been, we've got 53 guys and a dozen coaches waiting to let Joe Mays know what we thing of him. I would have called out Jack Del Rio by name and let him know that the scrub demoted Jaguar coach ought to be sitting right alongside Gregg Williams in permanent penalty box. I would have invoked John Elway by name and leveraged the years of loyalty to that horse faced goof to say that you are dismayed that an organization led by a hall of fame QB would allow that kind of thuggery to happen under their watch. The next time Schaub gets a borderline hit and touches his helmet, you want officials leaning in the direction of "this guy deserves the benefit of the doubt" after that BS in Denver.

5. Matt Schaub. You played it perfectly on the field. Off the field you better let Rick Dennison and any of those other Colorado connected coaches of yours that if they want to coach you for the next 4 years that that o-line better be over helping you (and Arian for that matter) up every single time he goes down and next time he gets a cheap shot without a response will be their last. If Derek Newton were suspended a week for fighting this week, I would feel feel a hell of a lot better about him than I do right now.
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Pastor Dillon


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i Didint think it was that bad of a hit, worthy of a penalty, but it didnt look like he was trying take schuab out
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Marco79


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They talked about it on sportscenter too.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: The Hit! Texans Required Response. Reply with quote

Great post. Allow me to chime in:

Apollo Stallion wrote:
1) Bob McNair needed to be at Goddell's front door this morning. You preach player safety one more time and don't suspend Joe Mays AND Jack Del Rio this morning, McNair should take a standard hole punch to your ear. To hell with bounty-gate, if it wasn't clear that the Broncos were given instructions to injure Texans in that locker room, blatant personal fouls on 3 of 4 plays starting with the Trindon Holiday hit was worse than anything the Saints ever did on the field.

I wouldn't be shocked if we have our A/V team splicing all of the instances in which a Denver player took a shot at one of our guys, and it wouldn't shock me to see Bob McNair and Rick Smith hand deliver these to their connections in the NFL office. Let's not get it twisted here - both McNair and Smith are power players in the grand scheme of the league, widely considered to be amongst the best at their respective jobs - Owner and General Manager. They've earned reputations of being stand up guys, and they've no doubt got deep connections in the NFL offices, and they'll look to handle it from that perspective. Smith is no doubt ready to play whatever cards he has in his hand; This is the franchise QB he signed to an extension a few weeks back, and to lose him would get HIS credibility in question, as the popular thought was wait it out to see if Matt can withstand the beating. Smith better be on the phone with each of his contacts, and each member of the Competetion Committee to ensure that swift and brutal punishment is handed down. He also needs to work to get Mays blacklisted for the remainder of the season and beyond.

Quote:
2) Matt Schaub's LAWYER needs to be at Goddell's doorstep this morning with footage of the Jared Allen hits and Haynesworth hits along with actions taken after Brady or Manning hits and demanding equal treatment or he can count on a massive post-career suit itemizing the NFL's selective enforcement of safety rules and how "preferred" players were protected while the Jared Allen's, Haynesworth's, and now Mays/Miller have free reign to headhunt on QBs not deemed big enough stars to warrant action beyond meaningless fines. Understand that when it comes to personal injury cases, the massive judgements (McDonald's hot coffee) don't come as a result of cause-effect damages, it's when the corporation knows the risks and makes the decision to not act on behalf of the wronged party because they feel restricting the dangerous behavior would cause more damage than the resulting lawsuit (McDonalds believed the cost of throwing out old coffee was more than the known risk of keeping coffee at a scalding temperature).

While this has some sort of merit, I doubt that one player would be able to illustrate an effort of protecting "big enough stars". You'd have to see several QBs and skill position players come up with their own highlight reel of behavior that lends to this "theory". Guys like Trent Green, Chad Pennington - guys who were never seen as stars, but had some atrocious actions taken against them, and nothing more than a FedEx package sent to the players in question.

You'd have to get all "Class Action" on the NFL to really catch their attention.

Quote:
3. Okay, maybe football shouldn't be played out at the commissioners office or courtroom, but I was APPALLED at the lack of response by the Texans to the Holliday and Schaub hits. It should have taken the officials 10 minutes to restore order after the cheap hit on our 5' 5" punt returner better yet 2 straight hits to the head on our QB. There isn't a talking head on the planet who wouldn't have deemed Wade Smith dragging Joe Mays to the sideline by his nut sack as justified and it would have made protecting Matt Schaub part of the national discourse this morning. We were up by 20 points at the time. Who CARES if you nullify a 15 yard penalty with a justified reaction at that point and if you watched the Redskins game, the scab refs didn't even bother throwing a flag on reacting team? I know that Eric Winston regrets not having fought for Schaub on at least two occasions and vowed that there would not be a third. Somebody needs to step up ON THE FIELD as his personal protector much like Antonio Smith did on Kevin Mawae two years ago and AJ did on Finnegan. Enough is enough!

This is one of those moments where I miss Eric Winston. This time last year, something happens like that? #73 is there, making sure that the offending party is eating dirt while nobody is looking. That is something that is missing on the offensive side of the ball. We have Antonio Smith who is ready to bring the fight to someone, but on offense? Since Vonta Leach and Winston are no longer on the team, we don't really have anyone who does that (not forgetting Andre's beatdown of Finnegan, mind you...)

One thing that stands out is something your boy Vandy was chatting about with Nick Wright and John Lopez: There was a play in a later drive, where Schaub got rid of the ball as Elvis Dumervil was falling down to the ground next to him. There was nobody near either guy, but Matt did something unexpected: He extended his hand out, grabbed a hold of Dumervil's extended hand, picked him up, slapped him on the back and walked towards the huddle. That speaks VOLUMES on how Matt Schaub handled it, and it was the best way to handle it. It wasn't a "kill 'em with kindness" gesture, it said "Hi, I'm Matt Schaub. You just tried to take my head off, you tried to injure me and ruin my season, but guess what? I'm still here, and you're still on the ground. Never forget that. Now, get back in your huddle and try again. I'll still be here."

Overall I agree - less subtle actions need to be taken by others (most notably Duane Brown, who isn't afraid to unleash Tom O'Leary when the need calls for it). However, Matty is pretty sly with his retaliation - a subtle reminder that he's not going to be intimidated, even when folks start to bend the rules.

Quote:
4. Gary Kubiak. Enough of the nice guy act. If you are going to win championships you need to step up and work all angles of this game. The first words of your post game news conference ought to have been, we've got 53 guys and a dozen coaches waiting to let Joe Mays know what we thing of him. I would have called out Jack Del Rio by name and let him know that the scrub demoted Jaguar coach ought to be sitting right alongside Gregg Williams in permanent penalty box. I would have invoked John Elway by name and leveraged the years of loyalty to that horse faced goof to say that you are dismayed that an organization led by a hall of fame QB would allow that kind of thuggery to happen under their watch. The next time Schaub gets a borderline hit and touches his helmet, you want officials leaning in the direction of "this guy deserves the benefit of the doubt" after that BS in Denver.

This I can back up 100%. If ever there was a chance to completely disavow the Denver ties and stake his own claim as the man who brought championship-calibur football to Houston, THIS is the game. Not only did he win his 50th game, not only did he go over .500 in the W/L column for the first time in his career - he did so when his old team was pulling out every single attempt to get in the way of that, more often than not using very underhanded techniques.

I'm not privvy to what Kubiak says in the locker room and in practice, but I would also hope that he uses this as a flashpoint; In that we are now the hunted, and it is now really "us vs the world" and the only way we're going to get out of this is together. No more miscues, no more penalties, no more mistakes - because the next one could cost someone a season, as we're no longer the hunters, we're the hunted. Teams are highlighting the Texans on their schedule, looking to make a name for themselves now. Kubiak needs to exhibit his own killer instinct from this moment forward.

Quote:
5. Matt Schaub. You played it perfectly on the field. Off the field you better let Rick Dennison and any of those other Colorado connected coaches of yours that if they want to coach you for the next 4 years that that o-line better be over helping you (and Arian for that matter) up every single time he goes down and next time he gets a cheap shot without a response will be their last. If Derek Newton were suspended a week for fighting this week, I would feel feel a hell of a lot better about him than I do right now.

I think this is already the case; I was listening to Vandy/Ware as I watched this game, and Vandy was saying that the whole team was coming out on the field to check on Matt after that hit. I don't think that is something that can be prodded by a coach, it is something that the team WANTS to do. For example, Drew Bledsoe wore out his welcome so bad in each of his stops, that his own teammates wouldn't bother when he was brutalized by opposing defenses. I remember someone in Dallas pointing this out when Bledsoe was just hammered by some defender and was writhing around in pain. Nobody on the Dallas offense even bothered to turn around and check on him (I think a few guys looked to the sideline in wait for Tony Romo, Bledsoe's backup). In the heat of this offseason where we heard comments about how we need to get Peyton Manning, or how TJ Yates or Case Keenum needs to start, it was the players who were quick to say "Matt Schaub is our QB, so shut up" ad nauseum. That isn't an instructed comment, that is respect from the locker room for the man who has earned the "C" on his chest.

The retailiation angle is something I agree with (and as said, it would of been a no-brainer had Winston/Leach still been on this team). However, it's a void that needs to be filled, and I have a sneaking feeling that James Casey will be the man who answers the bell when it's rung.

Just a gut feeling. Wink
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Joe_is_the_best


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously those plays were bad, but the Holliday hit was not a cheap shot. A cheap shot is an intent to injure. The Mays hit, you definitely have an argument, but saying the Trindon Holliday play was a cheap shot is just laughable.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
Obviously those plays were bad, but the Holliday hit was not a cheap shot. A cheap shot is an intent to injure. The Mays hit, you definitely have an argument, but saying the Trindon Holliday play was a cheap shot is just laughable.


There is no more dangerous play in football than hitting a punt returner who is focused on catching a football coming down from the sky with 10 guys ready to hit him the second he catches it, except to hit him in the ribs BEFORE he can catch it. If Holliday had called a fair catch, the player hitting him would have almost certainly been ejected as flagrant hits on fair catches are one of the few penalties where EJECTION is itemized specifically as part of the penalty. I would agree with you about the nature of the offense if it were isolated unto itself, but in context with the 2 headshots on the ensuing series shows a clear message was sent either by the coaches or the players that the Broncos were going to set a tone and did so with 3 personal fouls in 4 plays. Bush league to a degree far beyond what Schiano did and I suspect the fines and suspensions this week will reflect it. Maybe Del Rio will send somebody after a kicker or a punter (or a cheerleader) this week to show how tough he is, while Decker takes a knee to avoid sliding into a puddle and messing up his guyliner.
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Jacobys Homey


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
while Decker takes a knee to avoid sliding into a puddle and messing up his guyliner.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pastor Dillon wrote:
i Didint think it was that bad of a hit, worthy of a penalty, but it didnt look like he was trying take schuab out


What?

He didn't even use his hands. He launched up with the crown of his helmet into Schaub's head. And Schaub was standing tall so there is none of this he lowered his head into it excuse.

This was a vicious and deliberate a hit as there has been in a long time.
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jargin


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is part of the NFL that cannot be justified. Touch Tom Brady, he flops, refs throw a flag. Defensive linemen and linebackers DESTROY Mike Vick, RG3, Schaub, Newton, others and the refs don't care, the league doesn't care, the Boston Pats fans don't care. It's all a bunch of clear as day unfair treatment. I wasn't enraged at Mays for the hit, I had a sinking feeling about Schaub's health.

This has nothing to do with Kubiak or Phillips. This is about Schaub taking a shot and winning a game for us. That might have been his best game in a Texans uniform. There are lots of others- vs. Washington 2010 vs. Pats 2009 vs. Titans 2009 and so on.

The Holliday play was ridiculous but the Schaub hits were honestly just dirty football. You don't go out on a football field, do that and then try to justify it. It is just plain dirty. There is no defense for that.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schaub earned MAD respect in my eyes.

The guy who SHOULD be most worried is manning, if the defense continue to lay the wood illegally like that, then teams will respond by nailing him every chance they can.....
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champ+jay+al=SB


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
Schaub earned MAD respect in my eyes.

The guy who SHOULD be most worried is manning, if the defense continue to lay the wood illegally like that, then teams will respond by nailing him every chance they can.....


Which is exactly why there is no way this is a bounty situation or anything like that. First thing I thought after that hit was that the Texans are gonna come at Manning. No way JDR or Fox take that risk.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

champ+jay+al=SB wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
Schaub earned MAD respect in my eyes.

The guy who SHOULD be most worried is manning, if the defense continue to lay the wood illegally like that, then teams will respond by nailing him every chance they can.....


Which is exactly why there is no way this is a bounty situation or anything like that. First thing I thought after that hit was that the Texans are gonna come at Manning. No way JDR or Fox take that risk.


JDR is cut from the same cloth as Gregg Williams (failed head coach desperately wanting another crack at it) and Gregg clearly wasn't too concerned about Drew Brees. I'd love to see how many times coming out of a half that a defense committed 3 illegal hit personal fouls in 4 plays. The Packers situation will render this an afterthought at this point as the league now has an all hands on deck situation to resolve, but it will be interesting to see how hard the Texans brass push on this. There is absolutely no love lost between us and JDR from the Jags days and that hit demands attention, but I doubt there will be anything that sticks back to JDR on this.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly can't believe that someone on our O-line didn't retaliate in some way on that series after the blatant hit to Schaubs head. It would seem that some chop blocks to the D-lines knees would have been in order here. A couple of Bronco players should have been carried off the field on stretchers. If this were to ever happen again I'd fully expect one of our O-linemen to protect his QB and start a fight that takes the refs forever to break up, forcing the league to notice. If not then I'd expect Antonio Smith to come flying off the sideline and go all ninja on someone.

I absolutely agree with everything Apollo said.

1. Bob McNair should have been sitting in Roger Goodells chair when he got to work this morning, demanding severe actions.

2. Splicing tape of football games most likely isn't that hard to do, a strong case for favoritism and selective enforcement of league rules should be easy to make and nothing scares fat old rich men like the words law suit.

3. The Texans absolutely should have responded. Duane Brown of Wade Smith should have sent a message.

4. Kubiaks should have made his post game interviews memorable. He should have called out JDR, Joe Mays, and should have embarrassed his friend John Elway on national tv. Gary needs to stand up for his guys, it's time to nut up.

5. Now that we've resigned Schaub we need to make a serious investment in upgrading the talent level of our O-line instead of relying on 7th round 2nd year players (Newton), journeymen O-linemen (W. Smith), and a RG you know has no business on the field (Caldwell). Quit sitting back waiting for the refs. to handle the situation when it's obvious to anyone watching that these refs. are in over their head.

Thanks for letting me rant, I feel a little better now.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Journeymen O-linemen (W. Smith)

Wade Smith might be by definition a journeyman, but he has been nothing but excellent since getting here...
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kenney


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mays was suspended for one game and is appealing the suspension.

- per Schefter
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