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Greg Knapp is our worst nightmare
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
But when it counted, the full team (all 3 units) stepped up, despite injury (depth), and made the stops when needed and put up the plays and points when needed. Games are won by a combination of all the things that influence a game (not just offense), from all 3 units working together and contributing.


You mean to say it isnt all on a QB to win??? LOL, yea our entire team really overcame a lot (bad calls, injuries, depth issues) to pull out this victory and I'm quite proud of them for it. Sure the D did not play the pass well, but most people would take Big Ben, Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown against Huff, Hanson and Lee any day of the week- and rightfully so. The offense really came on in the second half, Palmer looked pretty clutch down the stretch, and ST even played well.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
You mean to say it isnt all on a QB to win??? LOL


If Pryor was in, he'd win every time and he'd be the only reason.
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
You mean to say it isnt all on a QB to win??? LOL


If Pryor was in, he'd win every time and he'd be the only reason.


True. I cant wait for the KC game- Pryor vs Moeaki: Clash of the Titans!
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
You mean to say it isnt all on a QB to win??? LOL


If Pryor was in, he'd win every time and he'd be the only reason.


True. I cant wait for the KC game- Pryor vs Moeaki: Clash of the Titans!


Let's not get crazy. Pryor does what Moeaki allows him to.
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NCOUGHMAN


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
holyghost wrote:
But when it counted, the full team (all 3 units) stepped up, despite injury (depth), and made the stops when needed and put up the plays and points when needed. Games are won by a combination of all the things that influence a game (not just offense), from all 3 units working together and contributing.


You mean to say it isnt all on a QB to win??? LOL, yea our entire team really overcame a lot (bad calls, injuries, depth issues) to pull out this victory and I'm quite proud of them for it. Sure the D did not play the pass well, but most people would take Big Ben, Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown against Huff, Hanson and Lee any day of the week- and rightfully so. The offense really came on in the second half, Palmer looked pretty clutch down the stretch, and ST even played well.


qb plays a major role in a win just like cp vrs pitt.
sure the other stuff matters its a team sport but when it comes down to getting points the qb is arguably the most important/valuable player on the field.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Raidin wrote:
SilverNBlackFan wrote:
Still not a fan of Greg knapp, but gotta give credit when its due. Finally he let Palmer audible at the LOS, which has always been a strength of his. and we were in a fast uptempo offense the entire second half. I pray we see more of that against denver. Ran less pointless stretch plays and seemed to run a little bit more PBS plays. Got marvel Reece involved. He is a matchup nightmare in the slot. McFadden still doesn't look comfortable in this offense, though. But he popped one early.

All around a great game from the offense.



He's been letting Palmer audible since week 1.


I agree. It's a byproduct of a new system. It takes time to get comfortable with the existing plays and aurrounding players. Once the comfort rolls in, then a player is freed up to make reads. Pryor stated the same thing after his week 3 preseason game. It's about having time to read, when the rest of the basic stuff is out of your head.


I think every argument I made before was vindicated this week.

Turnovers created, good field position gained on a few occasions, minimal mistakes and all of a sudden the offense looks alot better. No hideous comedy of errors, and we still have a very thin defense as far as talent.


Please. None of that is the difference between executing and not executing. On McFadden's long TD run, that was simply a well executed play. Something the offense didn't do in the previous two weeks. There was an actual rhythm to the offense, and that's because the run game started to work.


Here we go again.

You're really flip-flopping on this one and reaching badly now. You're posts were all about Knapp sucking and "a bad coaching hire" putting our season down the drain. That's from your mouth.

Your quote - "they don't want to acknowledge that's only the case because of how badly they downgraded at OC. I don't see how Greg Knapp will help this team win year in and year out, but I digress. I hate sounding like a broken record, especially to fans who can't seem to wrap their head around a season going down the drain because of a poor coaching hire."


Now you're talking about improved execution, which is the opposite offense issue from play calling and a coaching hire. Execution of the scheme is on the players, not the play calls or the coach. So not only will you not acknowledge that turnovers caused by the D, improved field position caused by special teams, and a D lacking talent but stepping up when it counted contributed greatly to this win, but now you're talking about improved execution receiving credit. While all you could do before was talk about Knapp sucking 100% his fault across the board.

Listen, I am having no fun arguing this with you. I acknowledged before that Knapp was leaving alot to be desired. And I still think better use can be made of what we have on offense, adjustments can still be made in a big way.
The least you could do is acknowledge you're just not right about a number of these things.


I'm starting to think, if Knapp can adjust and grow, that maybe, just maybe, his ultra conservative reputation has something (not everything, but something) to do with what he has to work with as an OC in the past.

He had a horrid lack of talent last time as Raiders OC. He made Fargas a 1000 yard rusher, a guy who had no business getting 1000 yards. With a pretty weak line. And he dealt with Vick early on in his career, a guy who has only recently made a legitimate attempt at being a passer. And I remember watching that team, their WRs could not catch a cold standing naked in a blizzard for a few years there. Knapp worked the whole O around Vick's special needs, and it worked for them in the only way it seemed that it could.
Kudos to Vick for being the type of player he is, but I can easily see how he and his playing style would hamstring an OC and what an OC could use in a playbook and gameplan. I'm not saying it's all true, but willing to consider Knapp's past issues are not all that they seem to the naked eye.


Last edited by holyghost on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Raidin


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think no matter how the offense does Knapp will either get vast majority of the blame when it goes bad or very little credit when we do it well.
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
I think no matter how the offense does Knapp will either get vast majority of the blame when it goes bad or very little credit when we do it well.


True.
Because he was not a sexy coaching hire at all and Raider fans cringed at his hiring on the heels of finally having a good offense under Hue. Knapp's rep will likely never change.

Truthfully I don't care as long as Allen and McKenzie prove that in some way they are intent and more importantly capable of building a winning playoff well rounded team. However long it takes (within reason).
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dante9876


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
I think no matter how the offense does Knapp will either get vast majority of the blame when it goes bad or very little credit when we do it well.


Depends on who you talk to. I thought Knapp adjusted very well yesterday. I thought the no huddle and quick tempo in the second half was on point. That was my major gripe with him so far this season. The halftime adjustments. I think that was much better yesterday.
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Sonic Raider


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't think I am ready to say Knapp is a good offensive coordinator and has turned the corner yet. Palmer audibled on every scoring drive and play in the second half. Looked like we went into a power blocking scheme outside of Knapp's ZBS on that McFadden touchdown run.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sonic Raider wrote:
I really don't think I am ready to say Knapp is a good offensive coordinator and has turned the corner yet. Palmer audibled on every scoring drive and play in the second half. Looked like we went into a power blocking scheme outside of Knapp's ZBS on that McFadden touchdown run.


i honestly thought saunders snuck some old plays in cause this was not your typical knapp type game.
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Raidin


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sonic Raider wrote:
I really don't think I am ready to say Knapp is a good offensive coordinator and has turned the corner yet. Palmer audibled on every scoring drive and play in the second half. Looked like we went into a power blocking scheme outside of Knapp's ZBS on that McFadden touchdown run.



So who's fault was it McFadden could only average 2.88 yards per carry under the power blocking scheme?
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Darkness


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
I think no matter how the offense does Knapp will either get vast majority of the blame when it goes bad or very little credit when we do it well.


Depends on who you talk to. I thought Knapp adjusted very well yesterday. I thought the no huddle and quick tempo in the second half was on point. That was my major gripe with him so far this season. The halftime adjustments. I think that was much better yesterday.


+1 Agreed. Knapp did well, and his play calling was the difference between another bad offensive game and what happened yesterday. Hopefully he keeps it up.
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
holyghost wrote:
But when it counted, the full team (all 3 units) stepped up, despite injury (depth), and made the stops when needed and put up the plays and points when needed. Games are won by a combination of all the things that influence a game (not just offense), from all 3 units working together and contributing.


You mean to say it isnt all on a QB to win??? LOL, yea our entire team really overcame a lot (bad calls, injuries, depth issues) to pull out this victory and I'm quite proud of them for it. Sure the D did not play the pass well, but most people would take Big Ben, Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown against Huff, Hanson and Lee any day of the week- and rightfully so. The offense really came on in the second half, Palmer looked pretty clutch down the stretch, and ST even played well.


qb plays a major role in a win just like cp vrs pitt.
sure the other stuff matters its a team sport but when it comes down to getting points the qb is arguably the most important/valuable player on the field.


QB is the most important/valuable player on the field without a doubt, but some people blame our record on Palmer like its only on him, or that he should be doing way more just because the rest of our offense failed. Poor defense has been a huge factor- when you allow 30 points and your QB plays pretty well you cant hold that loss against him.

QB has a greater impact than any other individual player. However, the 10 other offensive players as a whole have a greater impact than the QB IMO. If the QB plays poorly, but the rest of the offense is on fire, that offense can still score plenty of points through the run game, or plays after the catch, etc. Likewise, if that QB plays lights out but his WRs keep dropping passes or the line cant block or the RB cant run or fumbles a bunch, that offense wont score points.
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Roninho


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Sonic Raider wrote:
I really don't think I am ready to say Knapp is a good offensive coordinator and has turned the corner yet. Palmer audibled on every scoring drive and play in the second half. Looked like we went into a power blocking scheme outside of Knapp's ZBS on that McFadden touchdown run.



So who's fault was it McFadden could only average 2.88 yards per carry under the power blocking scheme?

Laughing i like this.
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