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What does Haslam think?
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 19625
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thoughts...


Our Guards are not good. Gotta give props to Rabid on this one. I thought they would improve, but so far not good.

Schwartz is still coming along, but slower than I hoped for, though I still think he will be a good player in the long haul.

Greg Little still drops easy passes and acts like a [inappropriate/removed] head when he makes 1 play. Dude pisses me off big time.

Our defense got owned. Our corners have a long way to go. That was by no means a good passing offense and they gauged us.

I thought Weeden played fine yesterday. Not great but ok.

The fact that Trent would get the hand off half the time and already was getting hit really pisses me off.


Last thing....

Pat Shurmur is trash. I never liked the hire and hoped he would progress as a coach. Obviously there is still time for that to happen, but I just think he is garbage right now.

/ Rant
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KamTrus20


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

24 teams have won a playoff game since the last time Cleveland has even been in a playoff game in 2002. If you count Tampa Bay and Oakland who both one later in the playoffs the same year that makes 26 teams.

Pathetic!

So you know what Haslam is thinking? He's thinking its time for a change! How do you change what we have been doing since 1999? You don't come in and start making changes thats how. Changing everything had not worked period. I can see making some changes because even the best teams in the NFL need to make some changes.

I could see firing Pat Shurmur but then do we ruin everything we have built so far by bringing in a 34 minded head coach? What happens to Phil Taylor, Ahtyba Rubin, John Hughes and Billy Winn who are all more NT size than 5-Tech size? Who plays LB? I don't know that we have a lineback on the team over 230 except Gocong.

We need a change in offensive philosophy and some player changes at OG, CB, FS and DE. You can make those kind of changes and still keep the rest of Jauran, Heckart and most of the players.
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braylonsHands


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I donít know how some of you can still be looking at this glass as half full. If Spiller did not get hurt and that Fitzpatic fumble did not get over turned like it did, we would have gotten completely blown out of the game. Heads will roll in Berea and likely sooner than later.
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DawgX


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boblight22 wrote:
The Browns were down 14-0 yesterday before half of the fans were even in their seats.
Once again we were NOT PREPARED to play a game ... a "MUST WIN" game for that matter.
There is no sense of urgency in the front office or coaching staff.

We have an offensive-minded head coach - yet I don't think he has had one opening drive TD in his tenure. He cannot even script a drive to score????

If you want to blame it on execution, that is fine with me.
The players that are not executing were brought in by this FO!
Our starting G's, our RT, Josh GOrdon, Greg Little - these guys were broguht in by Heckert.

The most frustrating thing is that our staff doesn't seem to get MAD when we get embarassed? Yesterday was a joke.


The jury is still out on some of those players. Josh Gordon is a rookie who was considered raw and didn't play college football last year. He's coming from an offense that didn't ask him to run difficult routes. The fact that he has six receptions actually sort of surprises me. I didn't think he'd see much playing time until late in the season. I'm not saying he will be good but he hasn't been bad and he's played in a total of three games in his career. Can we give him some time? He's on pace for 30+ receptions and 400+ yards. Considering that I didn't think he'd even see the field much until late in the season, those are pretty decent numbers. Those projections could increase as he gets more experience and is able to improve.

Schwartz has improved. He's been a bit inconsistent but he's definitely improved. He was very good vs. Cincinnati.

Pinkston is a second year player and was a fifth-round pick. He's inconsistent. It'd be surprising if he wasn't inconsistent. I'm not saying he's the future at LG but I won't rule it out as a possibility. I do agree that Lauvao sucks.

Even if those players fail to turn out good, does that make Heckert a bad GM? No. Every GM misses on draft picks. Heckert has hit on plenty of them. He's brought in Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Greg Little (the jury is still out on him, but he was second in receptions for rookie wide receivers), Jordan Cameron, Trent Richardson, Buster Skrine, Billy Winn, John Hughes, Craig Robertson, LJ Fort, etc. Those players have proven to either be good or have shown flashes of being good.

Again, I don't know why people are complaining about Shurmur so much. He's made some good calls, but players would fail to execute. The offense has been better than it was last year. Didn't the Browns average like 13 PPG last season? This season the lowest amount of points they've scored in a game is 14. Considering how young and inexperienced the offense is, I'm happy that they've improved at all. I imagine the offense will only get better as the season goes on.

I also don't get why some people get mad when coaches aren't emotional. There's plenty of successful head coaches in the league who don't get emotional. And many times emotional coaches are criticized for being too emotional and not keeping their composure. Pick one: Do you want a coach who shows his emotions or one who doesn't? Because both are criticized.
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NickZambo


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fsubrowns9510 wrote:
NickZambo wrote:
BwickBrownie wrote:
fsubrowns9510 wrote:
Who knows but whatever it is Its time to take back our own damn stadium.

Yesterday was PATHETIC.

And also, they really need to research these PSLs that are sold to Ticket Broker companies. All the time the tix are scarfed up by opposing teams fans. Yesterday 5 Bills fans sat in the same row 1 seats that 5 Eagles fans sat in during week 1 which are always sold on Ebay and Stubhub.

BS


I couldnt agree with you more. I got stuck in a section a couple years ago that was completly Steelers fans. I almost swore off going to games altogether after that experience... it's ridiculous.


Can you blame people for not wanting to pay $25 for parking, $100 for a pair of tix, $40 bucks on food to watch a horrible product on the field? I still support the Browns, but I have no desire to go to anymore games... I will sit at home and watch on tv. At times, I dont blame ticket holders for selling their tickets.


Kinda interesting. I pay $10 to park, and I eat before I go in and I drive all the way from Rochester, NY.

You spend as much at the game as you want to.

Spending $40 on food isn't a necessity.


This is true, I have a family and spending $40 on food is cheap... just you wait brother
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DawgX


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KamTrus20 wrote:
I could see firing Pat Shurmur but then do we ruin everything we have built so far by bringing in a 34 minded head coach? What happens to Phil Taylor, Ahtyba Rubin, John Hughes and Billy Winn who are all more NT size than 5-Tech size? Who plays LB? I don't know that we have a lineback on the team over 230 except Gocong.


Why are you bringing up the 3-4? Even if the coaching staff is fired, that doesn't mean the Browns would switch to the 3-4. Do you think that because of Haslam's connection to the Steelers? If so, just because he was the minority owner of a team who runs the 3-4 doesn't mean he'll have the Browns switch to the 3-4. It's quite clear that Cleveland's personnel is much better suited for the 4-3.

braylonsHands wrote:
I donít know how some of you can still be looking at this glass as half full. If Spiller did not get hurt and that Fitzpatic fumble did not get over turned like it did, we would have gotten completely blown out of the game. Heads will roll in Berea and likely sooner than later.


Because some of us are patient and are realistic. It's funny... the same people who are complaining so much are the same people who I see predict the Browns will win each week. Not once have I predicted for the Browns to win a game so far this season yet I still believe this team is headed in the right direction. They're just incredibly young & inexperienced and they've had a tough schedule. It's going to take time for us to start seeing positive results. I see talent on this team but that talent makes plenty of mistakes. That's what happens when you have such an inexperienced team. As they gain experience, they will make less mistakes and then the Browns will have a better chance at winning.
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BwickBrownie


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KamTrus20 wrote:
24 teams have won a playoff game since the last time Cleveland has even been in a playoff game in 2002. If you count Tampa Bay and Oakland who both one later in the playoffs the same year that makes 26 teams.

Pathetic!

So you know what Haslam is thinking? He's thinking its time for a change! How do you change what we have been doing since 1999? You don't come in and start making changes thats how. Changing everything had not worked period. I can see making some changes because even the best teams in the NFL need to make some changes.

I could see firing Pat Shurmur but then do we ruin everything we have built so far by bringing in a 34 minded head coach? What happens to Phil Taylor, Ahtyba Rubin, John Hughes and Billy Winn who are all more NT size than 5-Tech size? Who plays LB? I don't know that we have a lineback on the team over 230 except Gocong.

We need a change in offensive philosophy and some player changes at OG, CB, FS and DE. You can make those kind of changes and still keep the rest of Jauran, Heckart and most of the players.


Although I think Haslam will come in and feel the need to be an agent of change, I think what you wrote is about as close to on the mark as possible. There needs to be an acknowledgement that things suck, because they just do. Yesterday's game was embarassing. Is it a good idea to blow everything up again? Probably not... but things do need to at least be tweaked.

As for Shurmur, he might turn out to be a good head coach down the road, but I just don't think this situation is the environment in which he can do that and I bet Haslam feels the same way. If you're business minded like Haslam and you see a company that's been going into the dumps for the past decade appoint a CEO who appears to be in over his head (again, I point back to the herding cats analogy) chances are you're going to see a need to change that. Looking at our schedule and how negative things have turned just after three weeks into the season (not necessarily in this forum, but the attitude in Cleveland is definitely downtrodden and pessimistic) I'm not sure Shurmur survives the change in regime. Granted, if Haslam wants to follow the Steelers model, he may not go out and snag someone like Chucky, but I just don't think Shurmur makes it.
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DawgX


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BwickBrownie wrote:
KamTrus20 wrote:
24 teams have won a playoff game since the last time Cleveland has even been in a playoff game in 2002. If you count Tampa Bay and Oakland who both one later in the playoffs the same year that makes 26 teams.

Pathetic!

So you know what Haslam is thinking? He's thinking its time for a change! How do you change what we have been doing since 1999? You don't come in and start making changes thats how. Changing everything had not worked period. I can see making some changes because even the best teams in the NFL need to make some changes.

I could see firing Pat Shurmur but then do we ruin everything we have built so far by bringing in a 34 minded head coach? What happens to Phil Taylor, Ahtyba Rubin, John Hughes and Billy Winn who are all more NT size than 5-Tech size? Who plays LB? I don't know that we have a lineback on the team over 230 except Gocong.

We need a change in offensive philosophy and some player changes at OG, CB, FS and DE. You can make those kind of changes and still keep the rest of Jauran, Heckart and most of the players.


Although I think Haslam will come in and feel the need to be an agent of change, I think what you wrote is about as close to on the mark as possible. There needs to be an acknowledgement that things suck, because they just do. Yesterday's game was embarassing. Is it a good idea to blow everything up again? Probably not... but things do need to at least be tweaked.

As for Shurmur, he might turn out to be a good head coach down the road, but I just don't think this situation is the environment in which he can do that and I bet Haslam feels the same way. If you're business minded like Haslam and you see a company that's been going into the dumps for the past decade appoint a CEO who appears to be in over his head (again, I point back to the herding cats analogy) chances are you're going to see a need to change that. Looking at our schedule and how negative things have turned just after three weeks into the season (not necessarily in this forum, but the attitude in Cleveland is definitely downtrodden and pessimistic) I'm not sure Shurmur survives the change in regime. Granted, if Haslam wants to follow the Steelers model, he may not go out and snag someone like Chucky, but I just don't think Shurmur makes it.


Not many coaches would be successful with a roster so young and inexperienced while also going up against pretty good teams. Maybe Haslam will want to make a change. I think if he does it will have more to do with him wanting to bring in his own guy. Then again, maybe Haslam will think that this team has talent but they're young and simply need time to grow. Maybe he thinks Shurmur is the right man for the job.

For example, look at the Texans. Many were calling for Kubiak's head. The team had talent but weren't seeing positive results. Thing is, many of the players on their roster lacked experience and they still had a few glaring holes. Over the course of a few years, those players gained experience and they were able to fill those holes and the Texans started to see positive results with Kubiak as the head coach, even though many thought he wasn't the right man for the job and was in way over his head.

Point is, Kubiak proved to be a good head coach. It's ridiculous to think that Shurmur definitely can't become a good head coach for the Browns. He's in his second year on a team with so many inexperienced players. Like I said, not many head coaches would have success with a roster so inexperienced. Once they gain experience, then maybe Shurmur will prove he's the right man for the job.
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fsubrowns9510


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickZambo wrote:
fsubrowns9510 wrote:
NickZambo wrote:
BwickBrownie wrote:
fsubrowns9510 wrote:
Who knows but whatever it is Its time to take back our own damn stadium.

Yesterday was PATHETIC.

And also, they really need to research these PSLs that are sold to Ticket Broker companies. All the time the tix are scarfed up by opposing teams fans. Yesterday 5 Bills fans sat in the same row 1 seats that 5 Eagles fans sat in during week 1 which are always sold on Ebay and Stubhub.

BS


I couldnt agree with you more. I got stuck in a section a couple years ago that was completly Steelers fans. I almost swore off going to games altogether after that experience... it's ridiculous.


Can you blame people for not wanting to pay $25 for parking, $100 for a pair of tix, $40 bucks on food to watch a horrible product on the field? I still support the Browns, but I have no desire to go to anymore games... I will sit at home and watch on tv. At times, I dont blame ticket holders for selling their tickets.


Kinda interesting. I pay $10 to park, and I eat before I go in and I drive all the way from Rochester, NY.

You spend as much at the game as you want to.

Spending $40 on food isn't a necessity.


This is true, I have a family and spending $40 on food is cheap... just you wait brother


I know the food is expensive; that's why I stuff my face before.

Just like with most expensive things in life, there are ways to work around it to save as much as possible.
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fsubrowns9510


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

braylonsHands wrote:
I donít know how some of you can still be looking at this glass as half full. If Spiller did not get hurt and that Fitzpatic fumble did not get over turned like it did, we would have gotten completely blown out of the game. Heads will roll in Berea and likely sooner than later.


I agree with this. If Spiller didn't get hurt we probably lose by 30.
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boblight22


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgX wrote:
boblight22 wrote:
The Browns were down 14-0 yesterday before half of the fans were even in their seats.
Once again we were NOT PREPARED to play a game ... a "MUST WIN" game for that matter.
There is no sense of urgency in the front office or coaching staff.

We have an offensive-minded head coach - yet I don't think he has had one opening drive TD in his tenure. He cannot even script a drive to score????

If you want to blame it on execution, that is fine with me.
The players that are not executing were brought in by this FO!
Our starting G's, our RT, Josh GOrdon, Greg Little - these guys were broguht in by Heckert.

The most frustrating thing is that our staff doesn't seem to get MAD when we get embarassed? Yesterday was a joke.


The jury is still out on some of those players. Josh Gordon is a rookie who was considered raw and didn't play college football last year. He's coming from an offense that didn't ask him to run difficult routes. The fact that he has six receptions actually sort of surprises me. I didn't think he'd see much playing time until late in the season. I'm not saying he will be good but he hasn't been bad and he's played in a total of three games in his career. Can we give him some time? He's on pace for 30+ receptions and 400+ yards. Considering that I didn't think he'd even see the field much until late in the season, those are pretty decent numbers. Those projections could increase as he gets more experience and is able to improve.

Schwartz has improved. He's been a bit inconsistent but he's definitely improved. He was very good vs. Cincinnati.

Pinkston is a second year player and was a fifth-round pick. He's inconsistent. It'd be surprising if he wasn't inconsistent. I'm not saying he's the future at LG but I won't rule it out as a possibility. I do agree that Lauvao sucks.

Even if those players fail to turn out good, does that make Heckert a bad GM? No. Every GM misses on draft picks. Heckert has hit on plenty of them. He's brought in Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Greg Little (the jury is still out on him, but he was second in receptions for rookie wide receivers), Jordan Cameron, Trent Richardson, Buster Skrine, Billy Winn, John Hughes, Craig Robertson, LJ Fort, etc. Those players have proven to either be good or have shown flashes of being good.

Again, I don't know why people are complaining about Shurmur so much. He's made some good calls, but players would fail to execute. The offense has been better than it was last year. Didn't the Browns average like 13 PPG last season? This season the lowest amount of points they've scored in a game is 14. Considering how young and inexperienced the offense is, I'm happy that they've improved at all. I imagine the offense will only get better as the season goes on.

I also don't get why some people get mad when coaches aren't emotional. There's plenty of successful head coaches in the league who don't get emotional. And many times emotional coaches are criticized for being too emotional and not keeping their composure. Pick one: Do you want a coach who shows his emotions or one who doesn't? Because both are criticized.


I didn't say that the players I mentioned were not going to be good.
I am on board with your comments on Gordon.
I am simply stating that our guys are not making plays?
The guys that our FO brought in are not executing.

Sure GM's are not going to hit on every player. I dont think heckert is a bad GM - but I think he is replaceable. I am not going to give Heckert any kudos for hitting on his 1st round picks. GM's make their money by hitting on their later picks.

Jordan Cameron hasn't shown me anything yet, Greg Little is too busy celebrating his own accomplishments, Buster Skrine got owned in the Bengals game. I don't even need to mentioned Marecic and Hardesty = AWFUL.
TJ Ward was a high 2nd round pick? He is a decent starter, but isn't a game changer and he can't cover to save his life. We need playmakers.
Eric Hagg has looked bad (yes, I know he is a 6th or 7th rounder)- but he is starting over a guy we PAID to come here!
Lauvau looks lost. Pinkston has improved - no arguments from me - but he is nothing special.

Heckert has looked so good because of all the garbage we brought in before him. Heckert couldn't help but look like a genius following the likes of Butch Davis, Eric Mangini and Phil Savage.

Are we really banking on LJ Fort and Craig Roberson to become stars in this league? Is this what it has come to?

My point is that this FO has been here 3 years and we have a handful of legit playmakers. I am just tired of losing. We should be able to draft a starter with the 7th pick in the 1st round.

Finally, regarding an emotional coach:
I am not saying that the guy needs to be an idiot like Rex Ryan - but seriously.
We are 0-3, have been embarassed at home for the 7th time in his 10 games, we started horrible and are viewed as one of the worst teams in the league.
YES - there is something wrong with him NOT being mad.

No offense - I am just beyond frustrated and am tired of waiting for this team to be decent.
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BwickBrownie


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgX wrote:
Not many coaches would be successful with a roster so young and inexperienced while also going up against pretty good teams. Maybe Haslam will want to make a change. I think if he does it will have more to do with him wanting to bring in his own guy. Then again, maybe Haslam will think that this team has talent but they're young and simply need time to grow. Maybe he thinks Shurmur is the right man for the job.

For example, look at the Texans. Many were calling for Kubiak's head. The team had talent but weren't seeing positive results. Thing is, many of the players on their roster lacked experience and they still had a few glaring holes. Over the course of a few years, those players gained experience and they were able to fill those holes and the Texans started to see positive results with Kubiak as the head coach, even though many thought he wasn't the right man for the job and was in way over his head.

Point is, Kubiak proved to be a good head coach. It's ridiculous to think that Shurmur definitely can't become a good head coach for the Browns. He's in his second year on a team with so many inexperienced players. Like I said, not many head coaches would have success with a roster so inexperienced. Once they gain experience, then maybe Shurmur will prove he's the right man for the job.


That's a good point... hadn't thought about that parallel. I guess it's up to Holmgren to really give Haslem a good idea as to why he chose Shurmur in the first place, because even giving shurmur the benefit of the doubt, the best I could say is you can't evaluate yet whether he's a good or poor head coach.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see a team that can arguably be called the worst in the league, and we are in the 3rd year of Holmgren's regime. Unless this team suddenly has a miraculous change of fortune, people better get ready for the inevitable.
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braylonsHands


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgX wrote:
KamTrus20 wrote:
I could see firing Pat Shurmur but then do we ruin everything we have built so far by bringing in a 34 minded head coach? What happens to Phil Taylor, Ahtyba Rubin, John Hughes and Billy Winn who are all more NT size than 5-Tech size? Who plays LB? I don't know that we have a lineback on the team over 230 except Gocong.


Why are you bringing up the 3-4? Even if the coaching staff is fired, that doesn't mean the Browns would switch to the 3-4. Do you think that because of Haslam's connection to the Steelers? If so, just because he was the minority owner of a team who runs the 3-4 doesn't mean he'll have the Browns switch to the 3-4. It's quite clear that Cleveland's personnel is much better suited for the 4-3.

braylonsHands wrote:
I donít know how some of you can still be looking at this glass as half full. If Spiller did not get hurt and that Fitzpatic fumble did not get over turned like it did, we would have gotten completely blown out of the game. Heads will roll in Berea and likely sooner than later.


Because some of us are patient and are realistic. It's funny... the same people who are complaining so much are the same people who I see predict the Browns will win each week. Not once have I predicted for the Browns to win a game so far this season yet I still believe this team is headed in the right direction. They're just incredibly young & inexperienced and they've had a tough schedule. It's going to take time for us to start seeing positive results. I see talent on this team but that talent makes plenty of mistakes. That's what happens when you have such an inexperienced team. As they gain experience, they will make less mistakes and then the Browns will have a better chance at winning.


Dawg,

This is my problem with your argument and I'm sure your living the same thing. I've watched almost every game over the last 10 years and almost every preseason game over the past 5 years. I keep hearing there is always next year and that the team is building for the future.

This is what it boils down to with me. H & H sell me that it will take 3 or more years and they are building for the future and I see the following over the past years (with exception to this most recent years draft)

* Browns have not signed big name free agents
* Browns reach, but not overly reach on players
* Browns trade down towards acquiring more picks to become better in the future.

All of this methodology is consistent and I honestly believe, and many shared my opinion, that we were in a great spot this year in terms of drafting. We get talent around McCoy, see how he does, and if he flops, we have a top 3-5 pick to get a potential star QB.

What did we end up doing..... Reached for a 29 year old QB who does not look like he is good enough to play at this level and mortgage a 2nd round draft pick on a WR who can not run routes. Our last two high receivers drafted went over a year without seeing the field. The sad part is Benjimen looks far better than the other two, yet he is not on the field nearly enough.

This years draft looks like desperation to me and all of these building for the future arguments ended up being H & H's jobs are on the line thinking oh crap, if we don't win now we're gone. This being said, the past two years of building for the future pushing us back even further.

Right now our team looks like crap and I don't understand how fans can look at this with rose covered glasses saying we are going to be OK. Dawg, this isn't directed at you, as much as it is writing my opinion and frustration with this team.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgX wrote:
BwickBrownie wrote:
KamTrus20 wrote:
24 teams have won a playoff game since the last time Cleveland has even been in a playoff game in 2002. If you count Tampa Bay and Oakland who both one later in the playoffs the same year that makes 26 teams.

Pathetic!

So you know what Haslam is thinking? He's thinking its time for a change! How do you change what we have been doing since 1999? You don't come in and start making changes thats how. Changing everything had not worked period. I can see making some changes because even the best teams in the NFL need to make some changes.

I could see firing Pat Shurmur but then do we ruin everything we have built so far by bringing in a 34 minded head coach? What happens to Phil Taylor, Ahtyba Rubin, John Hughes and Billy Winn who are all more NT size than 5-Tech size? Who plays LB? I don't know that we have a lineback on the team over 230 except Gocong.

We need a change in offensive philosophy and some player changes at OG, CB, FS and DE. You can make those kind of changes and still keep the rest of Jauran, Heckart and most of the players.


Although I think Haslam will come in and feel the need to be an agent of change, I think what you wrote is about as close to on the mark as possible. There needs to be an acknowledgement that things suck, because they just do. Yesterday's game was embarassing. Is it a good idea to blow everything up again? Probably not... but things do need to at least be tweaked.

As for Shurmur, he might turn out to be a good head coach down the road, but I just don't think this situation is the environment in which he can do that and I bet Haslam feels the same way. If you're business minded like Haslam and you see a company that's been going into the dumps for the past decade appoint a CEO who appears to be in over his head (again, I point back to the herding cats analogy) chances are you're going to see a need to change that. Looking at our schedule and how negative things have turned just after three weeks into the season (not necessarily in this forum, but the attitude in Cleveland is definitely downtrodden and pessimistic) I'm not sure Shurmur survives the change in regime. Granted, if Haslam wants to follow the Steelers model, he may not go out and snag someone like Chucky, but I just don't think Shurmur makes it.


Not many coaches would be successful with a roster so young and inexperienced while also going up against pretty good teams. Maybe Haslam will want to make a change. I think if he does it will have more to do with him wanting to bring in his own guy. Then again, maybe Haslam will think that this team has talent but they're young and simply need time to grow. Maybe he thinks Shurmur is the right man for the job.

For example, look at the Texans. Many were calling for Kubiak's head. The team had talent but weren't seeing positive results. Thing is, many of the players on their roster lacked experience and they still had a few glaring holes. Over the course of a few years, those players gained experience and they were able to fill those holes and the Texans started to see positive results with Kubiak as the head coach, even though many thought he wasn't the right man for the job and was in way over his head.

Point is, Kubiak proved to be a good head coach. It's ridiculous to think that Shurmur definitely can't become a good head coach for the Browns. He's in his second year on a team with so many inexperienced players. Like I said, not many head coaches would have success with a roster so inexperienced. Once they gain experience, then maybe Shurmur will prove he's the right man for the job.


This is my problem with your argument, although I don't completely disagree..... The problem with the Texans was not the coaching as much as it was Shawb getting hurt every year. Whenever he is healthy the team is good. Also, I don't think anyone had the idea that Foster was going to be the best RB in the league. When you have him with Tate backing him up and a top 3 WR in Johnson, of course your going to be a good team.....

I'm not sure if Shurmer can or can't become a good head coach yet for sure, but it does not look good at this point. Bernie Kosar said the following, "Coaching wins you games in the first half, talent wins you games in the 2nd half". He also said you can generally only game plan for the first half to gain an advantage, after that you have to just play football with the talent you have.

Thus far, we have been in holes every game going into the half with the other teams beating use to a pulp and us trying to play catch up. What that tells me if Bernie is correct is that our game plan is bad and our talent is pretty good, which makes some sense. So can Shurmer still become a good head coach... Its possible, but not likely in my opinion. I think there is a more important question that I would be asking if I were you (not trying to sound condescending...)

If we fire Shurmer, who are we going to get to be head coach. There may not be that much worse out there, but I'm sure none of the better options would want to touch this team with a 10 foot pole with the coaching history we have had.......
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