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Year After Year, We Have No Killer Instinct
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NextBigThing


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:22 am    Post subject: Year After Year, We Have No Killer Instinct Reply with quote

It has only been 3 games, but it is already beyond obvious that this seasons Patriots are once again suffering from the same achilles heel that the past seasons Patriots have.

There is no smell the blood, "go for the throat" type of killer instinct. There is no "keep your foot on the gas" type of urgency. When the other team is on the ropes, we need to be going for the KO. Instead we dance around some more, and let them stay in it. It is so pathetically true that, regardless of how horrible the refs were, tonight is just further evidence to a now undeniable truth. Going back to 2006, we have to be the king of blowing big leads late in big games. We have to be the king of out playing teams we do not beat in the box score.

There is no argument against this any more. Just way, way too many frustrating examples of a team which, probably due to the incredible history of success in recent years, and the expectation of further success that comes with, gets SOFT, gets complacent, loses that hunger, in the fourth quarter.

It is so much bigger than no Hernandez, or horrible refs. It's having the lead LATE, sometimes having BIG leads heading into the 4th, and being totally unable to close the teams out because act SATISFIED. Teams that do not think of success as inevitable; that haven't won 3 super bowls recently, been to two more, had a team that went 16-0, etc don't seem to have that problem. Probably because UNCERTAINTY; that feeling of having your back against the wall and NOT KNOWING what will happen, usually brings out the best in competitors. The Patriots of the past 5-6 seasons just havent been that way.

2006 AFC Game
2007 Super Bowl
2009 vs. Bronco's - fg in OT
2009 vs. Colts - we all know
2009 vs. Miami - last minute field goal
2011 vs. Buffalo - blow 14 pt lead
2011 vs. Giants - blow last minute lead
2011 AFC Game - basically blew it, lucked out on missed field goal
2011 Super bowl
Tonight

Is our 2 minute defense so horrible that it seems like long completions when it matters are just automatic? Is our 2 minute offenses that bad that we really cannot execute when it counts?

Or is it just a huge drop in intensity, until it is basically too late?

This is a question which seriously needs to be addressed, because its been a repeated pattern; a recurring issue which began in 2006. 2007 crazy dominance pretty much just compounded the problem of getting complacent; 2009 and 2011 were the years it was blown wide open. After tonight, it feels like here we go again.
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dhunt2402


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our "Kill the clock" offense sucks, and our two minute defense is possibly worse. Its like they forget everything they did for the first 95% of the game to get the lead.

Its incredibly frustrating, and Bill needs to get down to solving it.
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Sciz


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had Belichick had any type of weapon, a ref would've gotten killed after that game.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhunt2402 wrote:
Our "Kill the clock" offense sucks, and our two minute defense is possibly worse. Its like they forget everything they did for the first 95% of the game to get the lead.

Its incredibly frustrating, and Bill needs to get down to solving it.


Perhaps that is just the problem. If it aint broke, dont fix it. The "kill the clock" offense is often just like a prevent defense. It deviates from whats working...and ends up NOT working.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly while expecting a different result. We need to do the same thing for 60 minutes. Run up the effing score, put the entire other team on IR. Thats the only type of attitude which should be acceptable.

Its one thing to not get emotional and stay calm, but it's another to act like you can chill out and go into autopilot.
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NoFlyZone wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
Why would I choose No Fly Zone? Dude is the biggest Dez Bryant homer.

Hey man, NBT hasn't been doing a good enough job with his receiver homerism. Someone has to step up.
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VTPatsFan


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Ridley, I think they've got someone who's able to run out the clock, a la Corey Dillon in 04. Probably not to the same extent, but he's still a heck of a lot better than Woodhead.

And with Welker, Gronk, Branch, Lloyd, you have guys who can make the short catches to act like runs.

I think the real problem is is the play calling. The Pats don't need a Calvin Johnson, it would certainly help, but it's not wholly needed.

What they need is a more consistent pass rush. When Joe Flacco has all the time in the world to stand in the pocket and throw to receivers, it's kind of hard as a DB to cover your main for all that time.

The DBs are playing better than they did last year, which isn't saying a whole lot as varsity high schoolers could play better than them, but without a pass rush (any rush the Pats had with Jones was nullified by Oher grabbing him all night long), the DBs aren't going to be able to do their job. Were there some bad coverages? Yes, it's going to happen. However, all the problems, at least from the defensive side come from the lack of pass rush. No need to drop 7 in coverage when you're rushing 4 guys who couldn't get past a stop sign.

They probably would be fine if their playcalling didn't suddenly go from highly aggressive to Marty-Schottenheimer conservative with anything less than a 14 point lead.
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terbo559


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems to me like our defense breaks down faster and more than any other defense out there. They will be strong for a quarter or so, but then they start allowing consecutive big plays, then everyone just breaks down and we lose the game.
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Grachuus


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NBT I don't think you have any idea what it's like to root for a team that doesn't win over 60% of it's games.
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rabbisson


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the past five years, the Patriots have now lost five games after being up by seven points or more going into the fourth quarter:

2009 vs. DEN
2010 vs. HOU (the Welker injury - welcome Hoyer game)
2010 vs. IND (you know the one)
2011 vs. BUF
2012 vs. BAL

It's sort of hard to count the HOU game since Hoyer was playing for much of the second half, but I have no issues keeping it in there just for the sake of numbers.

On balance, the Patriots have won three games since then after being down by seven or more points going into the fourth:

2008 vs. SEA (CASSEL)
2009 vs. BUF (I honestly don't remember that this game existed...we beat BUF by 1 point in 2009?)
2010 vs. BAL (vengeance game?)

It's definitely very concerning that the Patriots seem to have lost their ability to come back in the clutch...a 3-5 record on balance isn't very good (although Brady didn't even have a chance in the HOU game, he also was injured during the SEA game) It gets worse when you count in playoffs.

Every team gets some bad breaks, but it's all about the kind of hay that you make when you get opportunities. The Patriots have not, in recent years, been able to come back from a lot of adversity, and that NEEDS to be rectified. I'm not sure if it's a playcalling issue or a personnel issue...heck maybe it's a Belichick mentality issue. Maybe it's time to go back to FU mode.
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jofos


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its haed to put teams away when you don't have trust in the rest of the team. Brady said before the superbowl he would rather be down with the ball than watching from the sidelines as the defense tried to keep the lead.
When the offense doesn't believe the defense can come up with a stop they tend to be to careful. The game against the colts when the Pats went for it on 4th down, they didn't feel that the defense could stop them so they went for it and failed when they tried the safest pass.
To fix the problems with the offense the defense is going tohave to show that it can make a stop. To become more aggressive the defense has to believe that the offense can score. Right now neither seems to have confidence in the other.
This seasons still young so I haven't given up hope but I still agree that the Patriots play a little to scared.
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GoldenboyGB


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jofos wrote:
Its haed to put teams away when you don't have trust in the rest of the team. Brady said before the superbowl he would rather be down with the ball than watching from the sidelines as the defense tried to keep the lead.
When the offense doesn't believe the defense can come up with a stop they tend to be to careful. The game against the colts when the Pats went for it on 4th down, they didn't feel that the defense could stop them so they went for it and failed when they tried the safest pass.
To fix the problems with the offense the defense is going tohave to show that it can make a stop. To become more aggressive the defense has to believe that the offense can score. Right now neither seems to have confidence in the other.
This seasons still young so I haven't given up hope but I still agree that the Patriots play a little to scared.


And honestly I would too. Watching this team for years now the problem has been stopping teams on defense and being able to preserve the lead.

Its hard to watch at times because teams are loading up waiting for us to pass with 4 minutes left and the other team is down by 3 or 4. Its a constant issue and we sometimes pull it out but from memory this is usually how we end up losing and pulling out our hair.

In time it will come and the makeup of this team will change (the emergence of Jones, Hightower and whomever else on defense) while the offense will shift as well. Being in this spread look right now doesn't help diddly.

This team has killer instinct just a soft defense with no one really to step up.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbisson wrote:
In the past five years, the Patriots have now lost five games after being up by seven points or more going into the fourth quarter:

2009 vs. DEN
2010 vs. HOU (the Welker injury - welcome Hoyer game)
2010 vs. IND (you know the one)
2011 vs. BUF
2012 vs. BAL


The Pats beat Indianapolis in 2010, that was the James Sanders INT in Foxboro.

The 4th and 2 game was 2009.
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rabbisson


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
In the past five years, the Patriots have now lost five games after being up by seven points or more going into the fourth quarter:

2009 vs. DEN
2010 vs. HOU (the Welker injury - welcome Hoyer game)
2010 vs. IND (you know the one)
2011 vs. BUF
2012 vs. BAL


The Pats beat Indianapolis in 2010, that was the James Sanders INT in Foxboro.

The 4th and 2 game was 2009.


Whoops, my bad on the year.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GoldenboyGB wrote:
jofos wrote:
Its haed to put teams away when you don't have trust in the rest of the team. Brady said before the superbowl he would rather be down with the ball than watching from the sidelines as the defense tried to keep the lead.
When the offense doesn't believe the defense can come up with a stop they tend to be to careful. The game against the colts when the Pats went for it on 4th down, they didn't feel that the defense could stop them so they went for it and failed when they tried the safest pass.
To fix the problems with the offense the defense is going tohave to show that it can make a stop. To become more aggressive the defense has to believe that the offense can score. Right now neither seems to have confidence in the other.
This seasons still young so I haven't given up hope but I still agree that the Patriots play a little to scared.


And honestly I would too. Watching this team for years now the problem has been stopping teams on defense and being able to preserve the lead.

Its hard to watch at times because teams are loading up waiting for us to pass with 4 minutes left and the other team is down by 3 or 4. Its a constant issue and we sometimes pull it out but from memory this is usually how we end up losing and pulling out our hair.

In time it will come and the makeup of this team will change (the emergence of Jones, Hightower and whomever else on defense) while the offense will shift as well. Being in this spread look right now doesn't help diddly.

This team has killer instinct just a soft defense with no one really to step up.


For as much crap as the defense takes, in almost all of these games - going back to the 2006 AFCCG, SB42, 4th and 2, SB46, even the AFCCG last year, in all of those games the offense had numerous opportunities to put the game away and self-destructed.

It's easy to blame the defense for all those failures (and others) but this is a team which has invested heavily in its offense over the years (Brady, the line, Moss, Welker, Lloyd, the TE's) and has become a team which lives and dies with Brady's arm. As great as Brady is, way too much of the end-game gameplanning goes through the passing game which has a tendency to be erratic in the final minutes of most of these losses.

If you don't have a great defense, and the Pats definitely do not, you need to be able to kill the clock on offense and it's harder and riskier doing that through the air. The "great" Patriots teams (i.e. the ones that could protect late leads) were great at running the ball and using short passes (and screens) to kill the clock and keep the chains moving. More importantly, the playcalling was aimed at bleeding the opponent's time outs and running as much clock as possible.

Also, one other thing - in almost all of these choke-job losses, the Pats special teams have really failed to pin the opposing team deep and the return team seems unable to make big plays. Maybe it's just selective memory but it really seems that in a number of these games, the Patriots field position in the 4th quarter is abysmal and their opponents always seem to be in good position for a game winning drive.
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samgurl775


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbisson wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
In the past five years, the Patriots have now lost five games after being up by seven points or more going into the fourth quarter:

2009 vs. DEN
2010 vs. HOU (the Welker injury - welcome Hoyer game)
2010 vs. IND (you know the one)
2011 vs. BUF
2012 vs. BAL


The Pats beat Indianapolis in 2010, that was the James Sanders INT in Foxboro.

The 4th and 2 game was 2009.


Whoops, my bad on the year.

I'd like to know how many games we've lost when we're up by 7 or more at halftime. I feel that that would make up the majority of the 2009 season at least.
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rabbisson


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since 2008, we have lost 5 games after being up by six or more at the half.

2009 @ NYJ
2009 @ DEN
2009 @ IND
2011 @ BUF
2012 @ BAL

We have won 3 games when being down by six or more at the half.

2010 @ DET
2011 vs. BUF
2011 vs. MIA
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