Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Week 2: VIKINGS (1-0) at Colts (0-1)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 62, 63, 64
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Minnesota Vikings
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Frank Costello


Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 9224
Location: in 2009, Vikings>Saints
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kellerman wrote:
The Carlson signing is awful now because he hasn't been able to get on the field yet, but let's not act like the book is already closed on him.

Let's not forget that we only had one starting calibre TE on the roster at the end of the season, after losing sausage and visnu. We can still cut him without incurring a penalty after 2 seasons, that's not too bad. The guy was a good starter for years, let's have a little faith.


I don't disagree with the signing in principal. But and this is a big but, we threw 25 million at the guy. ( I forget how much guaranteed)

That's starter money, and the guy isn't starting. He isn't even making a difference at a later point in the game. At least to my knowledge. I would have much rather kept Shiancoe if he wanted to stay.
_________________
2014 - In Zimmer we trust.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kellerman


Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 3552
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Costello wrote:
Kellerman wrote:
The Carlson signing is awful now because he hasn't been able to get on the field yet, but let's not act like the book is already closed on him.

Let's not forget that we only had one starting calibre TE on the roster at the end of the season, after losing sausage and visnu. We can still cut him without incurring a penalty after 2 seasons, that's not too bad. The guy was a good starter for years, let's have a little faith.


I don't disagree with the signing in principal. But and this is a big but, we threw 25 million at the guy. ( I forget how much guaranteed)

That's starter money, and the guy isn't starting. He isn't even making a difference at a later point in the game. At least to my knowledge. I would have much rather kept Shiancoe if he wanted to stay.


2 years $11m guaruanteed, that's it. Those last years are just fluff, there's no more guaruanteed money there.
_________________

#97 Everson Griffin: 27 tackles : 5.5 sacks : 1 FF ; 16 games played
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vikingsrule


Moderator
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 47680
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Costello wrote:
Did you see how long we waited to address the position in the draft? We failed to bring in Ginn, settled for Simpson. And then waited till day 3 to finally draft a WR.


Justin Blackmon sucked as a prospect (he sucks now in Jax).

Floyd would have been nice but Kalil was clearly a better prospect.

I liked Rueben Randle and Stephen Hill has been good in NY. What would have been better for this team, Harrison Smith or Randle/Hill. Safety was just as big of a hole as WR.


And Ted Ginn, really. Laughing Ginn is a lousy WR, though he good PR, nothing more. Simpson is 10x the WR than Ginn will ever be.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vike daddy


Most Valuable Poster (2nd Ballot)

Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 73107
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankly Frank, are you going to be a "I told you so" guy all season long?

sure, we needed a WR in the draft. sure, we needed a CB. but we also needed line help too. how well would Ponder be doing this year trying to make time to go deep to a real WR if his pocket was collapsing in 1.5 seconds?

we'd be wasting that WR's potential, is the point.

it's easy to say "we shoulda gone this way in the draft" when we could have gone in any one of several directions with our top pick. whichever way we didn't go would still need to be addressed.

don't be that guy, Frank.

Very Happy
_________________


Webmaster wrote:
Can we knock off all the nonsense and stick to football?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vikingsrule


Moderator
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 47680
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blackmon - 24 yards / 3 receptions
Floyd - 2 games played / 0 receptions
Randle - 4 yards / 1 reception
Hill - 90 yards / 5 receptions / 2tds

Hill has really been the only WR worth anything in the first two rounds. I think its clear if Kalil wasnt there, Charlie Johnson would still be struggling at LT.

MN took a high potential WR in Greg Childs, and he looked like he probably would have been playing over Michael Jenkins. Unfortunately, he blew out his knee.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Frank Costello


Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 9224
Location: in 2009, Vikings>Saints
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't wanna be the I told you so guy but I was flamed and singled out on more then one occasion about my draft/FA beliefs.

I was un happy with the Carlson signing being our first big move. I preached and preached about an over haul at WR, and last weekend, our WRs were beyond terrible.

It's too early to say I told you so, and its also to early to say that Blackmon sucks. As his QB situation is anything but favorable. We also could have explored trade opinions at WR, and we still just might.

I'm not a patient person or fan and I believe we can contend now. Not next year, not two years from now, but this season. I'm telling you this cautious, play it safe, wait and see approach will not end well for Fraizer, and possibly Spielman.
_________________
2014 - In Zimmer we trust.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vikingsrule


Moderator
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 47680
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Costello wrote:
I don't wanna be the I told you so guy but I was flamed and singled out on more then one occasion about my draft/FA beliefs.


A lot of people had differing opinions than you, which is healthy. Perhaps members were joking around with you, I dont think there was blatant flaming against you for jumping around from CB to WR.

Quote:
I was un happy with the Carlson signing being our first big move. I preached and preached about an over haul at WR, and last weekend, our WRs were beyond terrible
.

Im with you, i was disappointed with the signing when the figures came out, generally I tried to make myself like it as much as i could. Still felt the resources could have gone elsewhere. As for the WRs, I agree but its hard to judge them since they arent at full strength (no Simpson or Childs).

Quote:
It's too early to say I told you so, and its also to early to say that Blackmon sucks. As his QB situation is anything but favorable. We also could have explored trade opinions at WR, and we still just might.


No one is saying "i told you so" but the fact of the matter is Blackmon has 3 catches and 24 yards playing on a similar offense with a young QB. How would he have really helped the Vikes to this point? Your claiming the receivers have struggled, which is clear, but Blackmon has too. The only WR who is worth anything at this point is Stephen Hill.

Quote:
I'm not a patient person or fan and I believe we can contend now. Not next year, not two years from now, but this season. I'm telling you this cautious, play it safe, wait and see approach will not end well for Fraizer, and possibly Spielman.


I think you will enjoy the season more if you have a more patient outlook. How has Spielman played it safe? He traded up in round 1 to grab the player he liked. He took a raw CB with elite physical skills. He took a chance on a WR with potential that has knee issues. He took a chance on Jerome Simpson. He took a chance on Carlson, with his health conerns. Spielman traded picks to move down a spot, when he could have played it safe and stayed put. What exactly has Spielman done to play it safe? Taking a LT?

Frazier is trying to put his young QB in a position to succeed, hard to fault him for that and given that the offense is still missing a starting WR, its not too shocking that htey are struggling at hitting those big plays.


Last edited by vikingsrule on Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vike daddy


Most Valuable Poster (2nd Ballot)

Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 73107
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Costello wrote:
I don't wanna be the I told you so guy but I was flamed and singled out on more then one occasion about my draft/FA beliefs.

you were also posting about 500 times a day in multiple threads, Frankie. plus starting your own. it's like you had an IV drip of concentrated caffeine going through you or something.

Very Happy


so when anyone posts that much and makes that many predictions, they're going to attract responses. because, you know, you're an attractive kind of guy.
_________________


Webmaster wrote:
Can we knock off all the nonsense and stick to football?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Frank Costello


Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 9224
Location: in 2009, Vikings>Saints
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:

I think you will enjoy the season more if you have a more patient outlook. How has Spielman played it safe? He traded up in round 1 to grab the player he liked. He took a raw CB with elite physical skills. He took a chance on a WR with potential that has knee issues. He took a chance on Jerome Simpson. He took a chance on Carlson, with his health conerns. Spielman traded picks to move down a spot, when he could have played it safe and stayed put. What exactly has Spielman done to play it safe? Taking a LT?

Frazier is trying to put his young QB in a position to succeed, hard to fault him for that and given that the offense is still missing a starting WR, its not too shocking that htey are struggling at hitting those big plays.


IMO, if you want your QB to succeed, without a shadow of a doubt. You surround him with ample weapons. Kalil is a start, but I'm still not a fan of how long we waited to draft a WR, after a quiet off season at the position.

If you're building your team for now and the future, then you got to join the growing trend of signing multiple quality WRs. We had no one beyond Percy last year and two weeks in, it's the same exact situation. The coaching staff has a lot riding on Wright and Simpson, and my guess is just one of them does well this season. And in that event, I still think our passing game struggles. Simpson has a lot to prove still in this league.

And as far as Blackmon's production is concerned, you can't really say what he would have done here. On turf, with a very accurate QB. Jacksonville's offense as a whole has struggled, even veteran WRs like Laurent Robinson.
_________________
2014 - In Zimmer we trust.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vikingsrule


Moderator
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 47680
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe Blackmon would have had success here, but I tend to believe that an elite WR prospect will generally perform, regardless of who is the QB and will make that QB a better player.

Blackmon has struggled against bracket coverage and just straight beating his guy in coverage. I figured this would be an issue early on his career.

I dont disagree that the Vikes took awhile to address the WR position, however, its hard to argue against the team for opting to use its 2nd round pick and 3rd round pick towards addressing the secondary. So far, both Smith and Robinson are key player for the defense. Both Cook and Winfield have given up big plays in the passing game, we have yet to see Robinson really get burned for anything of significance. He is playing pretty good for a rookie and I cant imagine how poor the defense would be if instead of Harrison Smith at Safety, we had Sanford again. At the end of the day, Greg Childs was probably a better WR prospect than anything that could have been had at that same pick at CB or Safety.

We have yet to even see Jarius Wright on the field. Maybe he can provide a spark to the offense.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Frank Costello


Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 9224
Location: in 2009, Vikings>Saints
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
Maybe Blackmon would have had success here, but I tend to believe that an elite WR prospect will generally perform, regardless of who is the QB and will make that QB a better player.

Blackmon has struggled against bracket coverage and just straight beating his guy in coverage. I figured this would be an issue early on his career.

I dont disagree that the Vikes took awhile to address the WR position, however, its hard to argue against the team for opting to use its 2nd round pick and 3rd round pick towards addressing the secondary. So far, both Smith and Robinson are key player for the defense. Both Cook and Winfield have given up big plays in the passing game, we have yet to see Robinson really get burned for anything of significance. He is playing pretty good for a rookie and I cant imagine how poor the defense would be if instead of Harrison Smith at Safety, we had Sanford again. At the end of the day, Greg Childs was probably a better WR prospect than anything that could have been had at that same pick at CB or Safety.

We have yet to even see Jarius Wright on the field. Maybe he can provide a spark to the offense.



I like the first two picks a lot more now then I did at the time. But we had plenty of ammo to move up in the draft, again. I felt they wanted to just take advantage of so many picks and go quantity over quality in hopes more starters would be found.

Guys like Randle and Sanu went a few picks before ours, twice. You remember how upset I was after I saw Sanu go. And our FO mentioned they might have pulled the trigger on Randle had he slid to us. But we just let NY take em. No worries, we'll draft Sidney Rice 2.0. Aka Greg Childs. Wink
_________________
2014 - In Zimmer we trust.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vikingsrule


Moderator
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 47680
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was all for moving up from round 3 to round 2 to nab Rueben Randle, but for that to have happened, that probably would mean no Josh Robinson and Jarius Wright. I cant imagine who the team's third CB would be if Josh Robinson wasnt there. Would have had to grab a CB in round 5 like Carolina did with Josh Norman. There defense is even more pathetic than it was last yr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HighHopes


Moderator
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 27071
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had ALOT of holes last year. Lets wait for Simpson and even if we still need one, we were going to have a hole no matter what. If not WR, it was going to be Safety, or CB, or LT. Lets not forget WR isnt our only hole now.
_________________
XBL/PSN: Chainedsniper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nzd07


Joined: 13 Nov 2010
Posts: 2173
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Costello wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
Maybe Blackmon would have had success here, but I tend to believe that an elite WR prospect will generally perform, regardless of who is the QB and will make that QB a better player.

Blackmon has struggled against bracket coverage and just straight beating his guy in coverage. I figured this would be an issue early on his career.

I dont disagree that the Vikes took awhile to address the WR position, however, its hard to argue against the team for opting to use its 2nd round pick and 3rd round pick towards addressing the secondary. So far, both Smith and Robinson are key player for the defense. Both Cook and Winfield have given up big plays in the passing game, we have yet to see Robinson really get burned for anything of significance. He is playing pretty good for a rookie and I cant imagine how poor the defense would be if instead of Harrison Smith at Safety, we had Sanford again. At the end of the day, Greg Childs was probably a better WR prospect than anything that could have been had at that same pick at CB or Safety.

We have yet to even see Jarius Wright on the field. Maybe he can provide a spark to the offense.



I like the first two picks a lot more now then I did at the time. But we had plenty of ammo to move up in the draft, again. I felt they wanted to just take advantage of so many picks and go quantity over quality in hopes more starters would be found.

Guys like Randle and Sanu went a few picks before ours, twice. You remember how upset I was after I saw Sanu go. And our FO mentioned they might have pulled the trigger on Randle had he slid to us. But we just let NY take em. No worries, we'll draft Sidney Rice 2.0. Aka Greg Childs. Wink


When Justin Hunter lights it up next year you'll be glad we passed on Blackmon. Wink
_________________

Pull your 84 jerseys out
Jay-Z wrote:
I'm not a businessman. I'm a business, man!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vike daddy


Most Valuable Poster (2nd Ballot)

Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 73107
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isn't this a thread about the Colts' game...?

why are we discussing the last Draft in it? and re-hashing the same arguments, to boot?
_________________


Webmaster wrote:
Can we knock off all the nonsense and stick to football?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Minnesota Vikings All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 62, 63, 64
Page 64 of 64

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group