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VeniceBearsFan


Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 2332
Location: Venice, Florida
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:31 am    Post subject: Simply put Reply with quote

I'm still pretty young and haven't seen as much football as some of you have. However, I think I've seen enough and played enough to realize a few simple facts that seperate winning and losing.

turnovers

penalties

time of posession

whoever "wins" these three aspects of the game usually wins the game. simple as that. In the game against the colts the bears "won" the time of posession and turnovers (but lost the penalties) and they came out on top. (35:28 to indy's 24:32 and 1 turnover to indy's 5). In the game against green bay last night we "lost" all three of these statistical categories. and the outcome was a loss.

my point?

sometimes fundamental football is the way to go. Don't get me wrong, I have alot of faith in this team and I'm excited going forward because I feel we can still compete for a championship WITH THIS CURRENT ROSTER, but we have got to stop acting like we're somebody else offensively. In the game against indy for basically the entire first quarter cutler and the offense kept taking shots downfield (mostly to brandon marshall) and jay started out 2 for 10 and had a pick six. This oline cant pass block for very long and defenses are too smart to not key on marshall. Once we started running the ball, using short-to-intermediate throws over the middle and letting our recievers get some yard after the catch the offense started clicking.

and what about play action?? I almost never see a good play action or bootleg from this offense. the bears need to play bear football and not try to be an air-it-out offense because we don't have the line for it.

run the ball and control the football (wins time of posession and turnoverbattle right there) and minimized penalties (which we've had alot of this year already) and this team could ahve beaten green bay
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Jleisher


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to let you know, I am a Packer fan, however I am not a Bear hater. I agree with your statement. Your team will be there at the end of the season. Cutler needs to shut his mouth and worry about the job he is doing. Sure he got sacked, and yelled at Webb. Who yelled at him after his 4 INTs? Did anyone bump him and get in his ear? Cutler was no class, and is not a true leader.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jleisher wrote:
Just to let you know, I am a Packer fan, however I am not a Bear hater. I agree with your statement. Your team will be there at the end of the season. Cutler needs to shut his mouth and worry about the job he is doing. Sure he got sacked, and yelled at Webb. Who yelled at him after his 4 INTs? Did anyone bump him and get in his ear? Cutler was no class, and is not a true leader.


I agree with you to an extent…some of the throws Jay made were terrible last night…some of the decisions were just as bad…when Jay gets frustrated he can let his game spiral out of control…the play calling & Oline didn’t help him last night and I get why he was frustrated but I feel a coach like Tice or even Bates should have sat him down and went over where he was going wrong…

Where I wouldn’t agree with you is about his leadership…he isn’t your classic big rousing speech type of leader but there are many ways to be a good leader…ironically Cutler is very much so like Phillip Rivers in this regard…he will get in his teammates faces and tell them when they’re not doing their job and being able to tell someone that is a big part of being a leader…we even saw it from Rodgers when James Jones didn’t run the right route…maybe Jay went a little far when it came to the nudge on Webb but if it had fired up Webb to play better no one would have had a problem with it.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7949
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Simply put Reply with quote

VeniceBearsFan wrote:
I'm still pretty young and haven't seen as much football as some of you have. However, I think I've seen enough and played enough to realize a few simple facts that seperate winning and losing.

turnovers

penalties

time of posession

whoever "wins" these three aspects of the game usually wins the game. simple as that. In the game against the colts the bears "won" the time of posession and turnovers (but lost the penalties) and they came out on top. (35:28 to indy's 24:32 and 1 turnover to indy's 5). In the game against green bay last night we "lost" all three of these statistical categories. and the outcome was a loss.

my point?

sometimes fundamental football is the way to go. Don't get me wrong, I have alot of faith in this team and I'm excited going forward because I feel we can still compete for a championship WITH THIS CURRENT ROSTER, but we have got to stop acting like we're somebody else offensively. In the game against indy for basically the entire first quarter cutler and the offense kept taking shots downfield (mostly to brandon marshall) and jay started out 2 for 10 and had a pick six. This oline cant pass block for very long and defenses are too smart to not key on marshall. Once we started running the ball, using short-to-intermediate throws over the middle and letting our recievers get some yard after the catch the offense started clicking.

and what about play action?? I almost never see a good play action or bootleg from this offense. the bears need to play bear football and not try to be an air-it-out offense because we don't have the line for it.

run the ball and control the football (wins time of posession and turnoverbattle right there) and minimized penalties (which we've had alot of this year already) and this team could ahve beaten green bay
It really did not take that much to figure this out, did it?

Yet, our coach seems to be incapable of drawing such obvious conclusions. I was saying the same thing before the game and have been critical of our game plan since the game.

We also saw no roll outs, no moving pockets, no draw plays, one miserable screen. How much more clueless can you get? You can't run play action successfully until you try and run the ball.

Without another streak of incredible luck, I don't see this team winning more that half our games. If it depends on coaching brilliance we are sunk.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7949
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
Jleisher wrote:
Just to let you know, I am a Packer fan, however I am not a Bear hater. I agree with your statement. Your team will be there at the end of the season. Cutler needs to shut his mouth and worry about the job he is doing. Sure he got sacked, and yelled at Webb. Who yelled at him after his 4 INTs? Did anyone bump him and get in his ear? Cutler was no class, and is not a true leader.


I agree with you to an extent…some of the throws Jay made were terrible last night…some of the decisions were just as bad…when Jay gets frustrated he can let his game spiral out of control…the play calling & Oline didn’t help him last night and I get why he was frustrated but I feel a coach like Tice or even Bates should have sat him down and went over where he was going wrong…

Where I wouldn’t agree with you is about his leadership…he isn’t your classic big rousing speech type of leader but there are many ways to be a good leader…ironically Cutler is very much so like Phillip Rivers in this regard…he will get in his teammates faces and tell them when they’re not doing their job and being able to tell someone that is a big part of being a leader…we even saw it from Rodgers when James Jones didn’t run the right route…maybe Jay went a little far when it came to the nudge on Webb but if it had fired up Webb to play better no one would have had a problem with it.
While I don't believe that incident will bother the team, Jay would have been better advised to keep his mouth shut when he is playing like crap. Half the sacks came because he had NO awareness of the pocket or where the rush was coming from.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Jleisher wrote:
Just to let you know, I am a Packer fan, however I am not a Bear hater. I agree with your statement. Your team will be there at the end of the season. Cutler needs to shut his mouth and worry about the job he is doing. Sure he got sacked, and yelled at Webb. Who yelled at him after his 4 INTs? Did anyone bump him and get in his ear? Cutler was no class, and is not a true leader.


I agree with you to an extent…some of the throws Jay made were terrible last night…some of the decisions were just as bad…when Jay gets frustrated he can let his game spiral out of control…the play calling & Oline didn’t help him last night and I get why he was frustrated but I feel a coach like Tice or even Bates should have sat him down and went over where he was going wrong…

Where I wouldn’t agree with you is about his leadership…he isn’t your classic big rousing speech type of leader but there are many ways to be a good leader…ironically Cutler is very much so like Phillip Rivers in this regard…he will get in his teammates faces and tell them when they’re not doing their job and being able to tell someone that is a big part of being a leader…we even saw it from Rodgers when James Jones didn’t run the right route…maybe Jay went a little far when it came to the nudge on Webb but if it had fired up Webb to play better no one would have had a problem with it.
While I don't believe that incident will bother the team, Jay would have been better advised to keep his mouth shut when he is playing like crap. Half the sacks came because he had NO awareness of the pocket or where the rush was coming from.


Agreed...however most of the sacks came because no one could get open down the field.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Jleisher wrote:
Just to let you know, I am a Packer fan, however I am not a Bear hater. I agree with your statement. Your team will be there at the end of the season. Cutler needs to shut his mouth and worry about the job he is doing. Sure he got sacked, and yelled at Webb. Who yelled at him after his 4 INTs? Did anyone bump him and get in his ear? Cutler was no class, and is not a true leader.


I agree with you to an extent…some of the throws Jay made were terrible last night…some of the decisions were just as bad…when Jay gets frustrated he can let his game spiral out of control…the play calling & Oline didn’t help him last night and I get why he was frustrated but I feel a coach like Tice or even Bates should have sat him down and went over where he was going wrong…

Where I wouldn’t agree with you is about his leadership…he isn’t your classic big rousing speech type of leader but there are many ways to be a good leader…ironically Cutler is very much so like Phillip Rivers in this regard…he will get in his teammates faces and tell them when they’re not doing their job and being able to tell someone that is a big part of being a leader…we even saw it from Rodgers when James Jones didn’t run the right route…maybe Jay went a little far when it came to the nudge on Webb but if it had fired up Webb to play better no one would have had a problem with it.
While I don't believe that incident will bother the team, Jay would have been better advised to keep his mouth shut when he is playing like crap. Half the sacks came because he had NO awareness of the pocket or where the rush was coming from.


Agreed...however most of the sacks came because no one could get open down the field.
You like to analyze this stuff. I was just thinking about opening a thread asking that specific question: "Why were our WRs unable to get open?" Should I or should you do it? More likely you would have more ideas wrt that.
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TytybearsFan21


Joined: 31 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will our line hold up on a play action?
Is Jay sharp enough to find a receiver immediately after the fake handoff? Because it'll have to be immediate due to the fact that our oaf of a LT can't block.
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VeniceBearsFan


Joined: 15 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TytybearsFan21 wrote:
Will our line hold up on a play action?
Is Jay sharp enough to find a receiver immediately after the fake handoff? Because it'll have to be immediate due to the fact that our oaf of a LT can't block.


I feel playaction would actually help the offensive line. getting jay out of the pocket and into open space takes less pressure off the oline
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Slaymont Harris


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time of possession usually doesn't help teams win unless it takes away a possession from the opponent. Teams usually win time of possession because they have the lead and are protecting it, and the other team is trying to catch up while using as little time as possible.
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VeniceBearsFan


Joined: 15 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slaymont Harris wrote:
Time of possession usually doesn't help teams win unless it takes away a possession from the opponent. Teams usually win time of possession because they have the lead and are protecting it, and the other team is trying to catch up while using as little time as possible.


time of possession is huge IMO. you're basically playing keep away from the opposing offenses and giving your defensee a rest
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Slaymont Harris


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VeniceBearsFan wrote:
Slaymont Harris wrote:
Time of possession usually doesn't help teams win unless it takes away a possession from the opponent. Teams usually win time of possession because they have the lead and are protecting it, and the other team is trying to catch up while using as little time as possible.


time of possession is huge IMO. you're basically playing keep away from the opposing offenses and giving your defensee a rest

Converting third downs (and not going 3 and out) is what gives the defense a rest. A 5 minute run based TD drive can take the same amount of actual time as a two minute pass based TD drive.

The "keepaway" part can only apply once per half (which is important). Basically, it's about plays per drive and number of possessions, not necessarily the time of possession (although maybe you're combining all of those into one).
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Badger75


Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 7315
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Simply put Reply with quote

VeniceBearsFan wrote:
I'm still pretty young and haven't seen as much football as some of you have. However, I think I've seen enough and played enough to realize a few simple facts that seperate winning and losing.

turnovers

penalties

time of posession

whoever "wins" these three aspects of the game usually wins the game. simple as that. In the game against the colts the bears "won" the time of posession and turnovers (but lost the penalties) and they came out on top. (35:28 to indy's 24:32 and 1 turnover to indy's 5). In the game against green bay last night we "lost" all three of these statistical categories. and the outcome was a loss.

my point?

sometimes fundamental football is the way to go. Don't get me wrong, I have alot of faith in this team and I'm excited going forward because I feel we can still compete for a championship WITH THIS CURRENT ROSTER, but we have got to stop acting like we're somebody else offensively. In the game against indy for basically the entire first quarter cutler and the offense kept taking shots downfield (mostly to brandon marshall) and jay started out 2 for 10 and had a pick six. This oline cant pass block for very long and defenses are too smart to not key on marshall. Once we started running the ball, using short-to-intermediate throws over the middle and letting our recievers get some yard after the catch the offense started clicking.

and what about play action?? I almost never see a good play action or bootleg from this offense. the bears need to play bear football and not try to be an air-it-out offense because we don't have the line for it.

run the ball and control the football (wins time of posession and turnoverbattle right there) and minimized penalties (which we've had alot of this year already) and this team could ahve beaten green bay


Turnovers, penalties and time of possession are just statistical means of saying:

1. Team work
2. Execution
3. Discipline

What is missing is not talent. It is the above three. Too many plays are blown by players not executing. Not enough team work. Why? Take offense. Tice does the run game while the passing game is done by some QB coach that resembles a gerbil. Most definitely never played the game. Don't know why the offense is split like that.

The WR's aren't ready. Cutler knows that. The offensive game plan seems like it is out of synch.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slaymont Harris wrote:
VeniceBearsFan wrote:
Slaymont Harris wrote:
Time of possession usually doesn't help teams win unless it takes away a possession from the opponent. Teams usually win time of possession because they have the lead and are protecting it, and the other team is trying to catch up while using as little time as possible.


time of possession is huge IMO. you're basically playing keep away from the opposing offenses and giving your defensee a rest

Converting third downs (and not going 3 and out) is what gives the defense a rest. A 5 minute run based TD drive can take the same amount of actual time as a two minute pass based TD drive. Not really likely since the clock is not stopping as much now on out of bounds.

The "keepaway" part can only apply once per half (which is important). Basically, it's about plays per drive and number of possessions, not necessarily the time of possession (although maybe you're combining all of those into one).
Time of possession must be tied to scoring for it to matter positively. If you have the ball for most of a half, for example, but don't score that is very negative for your chances to win. If you keep the ball most of the game and do score that is a high predictor of victory. High numbers of plays per drive and number of possessions leads to high time of possession. It is possible to score very quickly, put up lots of points and have the ball very little time but that does not happen much.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7949
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:47 am    Post subject: Re: Simply put Reply with quote

Badger75 wrote:
VeniceBearsFan wrote:
I'm still pretty young and haven't seen as much football as some of you have. However, I think I've seen enough and played enough to realize a few simple facts that seperate winning and losing.

turnovers

penalties

time of posession

whoever "wins" these three aspects of the game usually wins the game. simple as that. In the game against the colts the bears "won" the time of posession and turnovers (but lost the penalties) and they came out on top. (35:28 to indy's 24:32 and 1 turnover to indy's 5). In the game against green bay last night we "lost" all three of these statistical categories. and the outcome was a loss.

my point?

sometimes fundamental football is the way to go. Don't get me wrong, I have alot of faith in this team and I'm excited going forward because I feel we can still compete for a championship WITH THIS CURRENT ROSTER, but we have got to stop acting like we're somebody else offensively. In the game against indy for basically the entire first quarter cutler and the offense kept taking shots downfield (mostly to brandon marshall) and jay started out 2 for 10 and had a pick six. This oline cant pass block for very long and defenses are too smart to not key on marshall. Once we started running the ball, using short-to-intermediate throws over the middle and letting our recievers get some yard after the catch the offense started clicking.

and what about play action?? I almost never see a good play action or bootleg from this offense. the bears need to play bear football and not try to be an air-it-out offense because we don't have the line for it.

run the ball and control the football (wins time of posession and turnoverbattle right there) and minimized penalties (which we've had alot of this year already) and this team could ahve beaten green bay


Turnovers, penalties and time of possession are just statistical means of saying:

1. Team work
2. Execution
3. Discipline

What is missing is not talent. It is the above three. Too many plays are blown by players not executing. Not enough team work. Why? Take offense. Tice does the run game while the passing game is done by some QB coach that resembles a gerbil. Most definitely never played the game. Don't know why the offense is split like that.

The WR's aren't ready. Cutler knows that. The offensive game plan seems like it is out of synch.
It is inexcusable if the WRs aren't ready. They played little in pre-season so as to get ready. Apparently the coach believed that it was unnecessary for them to get game practice. Did Tice, Bates and Smith feel this was the case?
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