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TitanLegend


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 3071
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

s_camp wrote:
KingTitan wrote:
Can people not put aside their pride or favortism for a second and admit CJ isn't the same back he was?
Even during his 2,000 yard season he lead the league in negative yard carries. What happened between then and now?

We didn't have the HOGs blocking for him then.....

CJ is a different RB for the worst now.

The line isn't helping but CJ is helping even less with his effort.

YES THE LINE SUCKS....but come on...CJ isn't the same.


Folks, let's face it: even KT, the most obnoxiously optimistic poster on this site (much love KT, I said it as a joke not an insult), has come around on this topic. No way is CJ running like an NFL caliber back at this point.


I'm not sure how you even judge CJ at this point, good or bad. He hasn't even had a chance to run this season.
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s_camp


Joined: 10 Dec 2010
Posts: 2734
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanLegend wrote:
s_camp wrote:
KingTitan wrote:
Can people not put aside their pride or favortism for a second and admit CJ isn't the same back he was?
Even during his 2,000 yard season he lead the league in negative yard carries. What happened between then and now?

We didn't have the HOGs blocking for him then.....

CJ is a different RB for the worst now.

The line isn't helping but CJ is helping even less with his effort.

YES THE LINE SUCKS....but come on...CJ isn't the same.


Folks, let's face it: even KT, the most obnoxiously optimistic poster on this site (much love KT, I said it as a joke not an insult), has come around on this topic. No way is CJ running like an NFL caliber back at this point.


I'm not sure how you even judge CJ at this point, good or bad. He hasn't even had a chance to run this season.


1. Watch the game.
2. See Chris suck.
3. Conclude that he sucks.

He's had enough carries to show some giveadamn or a little bit of fire in his belly. He looks lifeless out there. Early in the 2nd quarter against SD he took a dump off pass from Locker in our own endzone. He turned upfield, saw two defenders, and put his head down and went for it. That was great. That's how he used to be pretty much every time he touched the ball. That's not how he is now.
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TitanLegend


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 3071
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

s_camp wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:
s_camp wrote:
KingTitan wrote:
Can people not put aside their pride or favortism for a second and admit CJ isn't the same back he was?
Even during his 2,000 yard season he lead the league in negative yard carries. What happened between then and now?

We didn't have the HOGs blocking for him then.....

CJ is a different RB for the worst now.

The line isn't helping but CJ is helping even less with his effort.

YES THE LINE SUCKS....but come on...CJ isn't the same.


Folks, let's face it: even KT, the most obnoxiously optimistic poster on this site (much love KT, I said it as a joke not an insult), has come around on this topic. No way is CJ running like an NFL caliber back at this point.


I'm not sure how you even judge CJ at this point, good or bad. He hasn't even had a chance to run this season.


1. Watch the game.
2. See Chris suck.
3. Conclude that he sucks.

He's had enough carries to show some giveadamn or a little bit of fire in his belly. He looks lifeless out there. Early in the 2nd quarter against SD he took a dump off pass from Locker in our own endzone. He turned upfield, saw two defenders, and put his head down and went for it. That was great. That's how he used to be pretty much every time he touched the ball. That's not how he is now.


You can see CJ suck? How can CJ suck when he gets hit in the backfield on practically every carry?

He may very well be the worst RB in the NFL right now, but we wouldn't know. He hasn't had a chance to show it.

And you mention that play vs SD. He also had the play where he made the guy miss in the open field.

Someone who claims CJ doesn't care/his head isn't in it is 100% incorrect, IMO. His skills could have very well diminished(we can't tell one way or the other, like I said), but the guy is out there trying.

My opinion(and I'm not even gonna dare call it fact, cause yet again, I'm not sure one way or the other) is that he's still an extremely talented player, who is giving it his all..but has no faith in his offensive line anymore. And has no reason to have any faith, either. Which leads him to try and do everything himself..and he has to on 90-95% of the carries if he wants to even gain a yard. But again, just my opinion, not claiming that to be fact.
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s_camp


Joined: 10 Dec 2010
Posts: 2734
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanLegend wrote:
s_camp wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:
s_camp wrote:
KingTitan wrote:
Can people not put aside their pride or favortism for a second and admit CJ isn't the same back he was?
Even during his 2,000 yard season he lead the league in negative yard carries. What happened between then and now?

We didn't have the HOGs blocking for him then.....

CJ is a different RB for the worst now.

The line isn't helping but CJ is helping even less with his effort.

YES THE LINE SUCKS....but come on...CJ isn't the same.


Folks, let's face it: even KT, the most obnoxiously optimistic poster on this site (much love KT, I said it as a joke not an insult), has come around on this topic. No way is CJ running like an NFL caliber back at this point.


I'm not sure how you even judge CJ at this point, good or bad. He hasn't even had a chance to run this season.


1. Watch the game.
2. See Chris suck.
3. Conclude that he sucks.

He's had enough carries to show some giveadamn or a little bit of fire in his belly. He looks lifeless out there. Early in the 2nd quarter against SD he took a dump off pass from Locker in our own endzone. He turned upfield, saw two defenders, and put his head down and went for it. That was great. That's how he used to be pretty much every time he touched the ball. That's not how he is now.


You can see CJ suck? How can CJ suck when he gets hit in the backfield on practically every carry?

He may very well be the worst RB in the NFL right now, but we wouldn't know. He hasn't had a chance to show it.

And you mention that play vs SD. He also had the play where he made the guy miss in the open field.

Someone who claims CJ doesn't care/his head isn't in it is 100% incorrect, IMO. His skills could have very well diminished(we can't tell one way or the other, like I said), but the guy is out there trying.

My opinion(and I'm not even gonna dare call it fact, cause yet again, I'm not sure one way or the other) is that he's still an extremely talented player, who is giving it his all..but has no faith in his offensive line anymore. And has no reason to have any faith, either. Which leads him to try and do everything himself..and he has to on 90-95% of the carries if he wants to even gain a yard. But again, just my opinion, not claiming that to be fact.


CJ getting hit in the backfield all the time is at least partially his fault.

Yes I can see how bad he is now. He doesn't run hard, or angry, or however you care to describe it. Go watch the highlight videos from 2008 and 2009, then compare that to how he ran last year and this year. If you think he's running the same, then we're so far apart it's not even worth discussing.
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coleman51


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 2771
Location: Hendersonville, TN
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep blaming Chris Johnson if you want to, but he hasn't even had a chance. 11 carries in the first game? 7 or 8 in the second game? (don't know exact rushing count) The offensive play calling has completely abandoned the running game. Have you ever heard the term "Establishing the run?" The running game isn't just always there, unless you play against terrible defenses like ours, and our run defense was actually very par for NFL standards, I actually think we did kinda well against the run.

The lineman have to get into a flow of the game blocking defenders. Because right now, when we are on offense, our lineman are playing defense trying to keep defensive ends and tackles off of Locker in pass protection. We're not letting our maulers do what they do best - maul people. Get on mean streaks.

I honestly feel as though everytime something goes wrong now, it's always CJ's fault. It aggravates me to no end. In the past, I was ok with it when he deserved it, because he in fact did deserve it at times last year. But this season there hasn't been one thing you can blame on CJ - except in the preseason when he was dropping easy passes. (Has he dropped since then?) Now every local fan around here wants to just blame Chris Johnson and "it's all his fault why we can't win games because he got paid and he quit wah wah wah he's not fast anymore he doesnt have vision" No, those fans don't have vision. They clearly don't know how to watch a play unfold and see where it collapsed.

Until this team decides to commit to the running game and let these lineman get after some people and start making holes, I will defend CJ all season. If there are holes and he's getting carries, then it will be his fault. But right now it's not. I don't know why with Locker, and CJ they aren't trying to do AT LEAST any read-option type plays and let Locker run, because that's what he's having to do anyways. And that would also be a better way to get CJ involved. Anyways, that's all I have for now. Please make good arguements instead of just saying what everyone else has been saying. Last year IS NOT this year.
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TitanLegend


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 3071
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

s_camp wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:
s_camp wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:
s_camp wrote:
KingTitan wrote:
Can people not put aside their pride or favortism for a second and admit CJ isn't the same back he was?
Even during his 2,000 yard season he lead the league in negative yard carries. What happened between then and now?

We didn't have the HOGs blocking for him then.....

CJ is a different RB for the worst now.

The line isn't helping but CJ is helping even less with his effort.

YES THE LINE SUCKS....but come on...CJ isn't the same.


Folks, let's face it: even KT, the most obnoxiously optimistic poster on this site (much love KT, I said it as a joke not an insult), has come around on this topic. No way is CJ running like an NFL caliber back at this point.


I'm not sure how you even judge CJ at this point, good or bad. He hasn't even had a chance to run this season.


1. Watch the game.
2. See Chris suck.
3. Conclude that he sucks.

He's had enough carries to show some giveadamn or a little bit of fire in his belly. He looks lifeless out there. Early in the 2nd quarter against SD he took a dump off pass from Locker in our own endzone. He turned upfield, saw two defenders, and put his head down and went for it. That was great. That's how he used to be pretty much every time he touched the ball. That's not how he is now.


You can see CJ suck? How can CJ suck when he gets hit in the backfield on practically every carry?

He may very well be the worst RB in the NFL right now, but we wouldn't know. He hasn't had a chance to show it.

And you mention that play vs SD. He also had the play where he made the guy miss in the open field.

Someone who claims CJ doesn't care/his head isn't in it is 100% incorrect, IMO. His skills could have very well diminished(we can't tell one way or the other, like I said), but the guy is out there trying.

My opinion(and I'm not even gonna dare call it fact, cause yet again, I'm not sure one way or the other) is that he's still an extremely talented player, who is giving it his all..but has no faith in his offensive line anymore. And has no reason to have any faith, either. Which leads him to try and do everything himself..and he has to on 90-95% of the carries if he wants to even gain a yard. But again, just my opinion, not claiming that to be fact.


CJ getting hit in the backfield all the time is at least partially his fault.

Yes I can see how bad he is now. He doesn't run hard, or angry, or however you care to describe it. Go watch the highlight videos from 2008 and 2009, then compare that to how he ran last year and this year. If you think he's running the same, then we're so far apart it's not even worth discussing.


Partially his fault? The interior of the offensive line getting destroyed is his fault? Jesus, he can't block for himself too.

I dunno how many times I need to say that I'm not sure how he's running. What I can tell you is from watching those 2 plays, the one you mentioned and the one I mentioned about him juking out Jammer, it seems he's still got the talent, and there were those plays vs Tampa in the pre-season. Now he may be mailing it in when it comes to running the football, but as I've repeated 2,000 times over, you can't tell for sure one way or the other when he gets blown up in the backfield.

He's not had ANY chance to get in to ANY sort of a rhythm. It'd be like asking a QB to get in to a rythm when you pull him every other play.
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s_camp


Joined: 10 Dec 2010
Posts: 2734
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coleman51 wrote:
Keep blaming Chris Johnson if you want to, but he hasn't even had a chance. 11 carries in the first game? 7 or 8 in the second game? (don't know exact rushing count) The offensive play calling has completely abandoned the running game. Have you ever heard the term "Establishing the run?" The running game isn't just always there, unless you play against terrible defenses like ours, and our run defense was actually very par for NFL standards, I actually think we did kinda well against the run.


I absolutely intend to keep blaming CJ for those problems he causes. Thanks for giving me permission Rolling Eyes

coleman51 wrote:
The lineman have to get into a flow of the game blocking defenders. Because right now, when we are on offense, our lineman are playing defense trying to keep defensive ends and tackles off of Locker in pass protection. We're not letting our maulers do what they do best - maul people. Get on mean streaks.


How many plays does it take for a lineman to transition from pass blocking to run blocking? 3? 12? This is nonsense.

coleman51 wrote:
I honestly feel as though everytime something goes wrong now, it's always CJ's fault. It aggravates me to no end. In the past, I was ok with it when he deserved it, because he in fact did deserve it at times last year. But this season there hasn't been one thing you can blame on CJ - except in the preseason when he was dropping easy passes. (Has he dropped since then?) Now every local fan around here wants to just blame Chris Johnson and "it's all his fault why we can't win games because he got paid and he quit wah wah wah he's not fast anymore he doesnt have vision" No, those fans don't have vision. They clearly don't know how to watch a play unfold and see where it collapsed.


I don't recall anyone on this forum saying any of that. I do recall a lot of posters pointing out his poor effort and leadership. Clearly you have very little perspective on this issue if you think everything that goes wrong gets blamed on CJ. Just this week alone every member of the coaching staff whose name I can think of, except Ragone, has been blamed. Likewise Griffin, the DL for not getting much pressure, Zach Brown, some people are upset with Locker... Blaming CJ for CJ's problems =/= blaming CJ for everything. It might seem like it though, because he's got so many problems these days.

coleman51 wrote:
Until this team decides to commit to the running game and let these lineman get after some people and start making holes, I will defend CJ all season. If there are holes and he's getting carries, then it will be his fault. But right now it's not. I don't know why with Locker, and CJ they aren't trying to do AT LEAST any read-option type plays and let Locker run, because that's what he's having to do anyways. And that would also be a better way to get CJ involved. Anyways, that's all I have for now. Please make good arguements instead of just saying what everyone else has been saying. Last year IS NOT this year.


That's a pointless, inflammatory comment that borders on trolling.
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s_camp


Joined: 10 Dec 2010
Posts: 2734
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanLegend wrote:
Partially his fault? The interior of the offensive line getting destroyed is his fault? Jesus, he can't block for himself too.

I dunno how many times I need to say that I'm not sure how he's running. What I can tell you is from watching those 2 plays, the one you mentioned and the one I mentioned about him juking out Jammer, it seems he's still got the talent, and there were those plays vs Tampa in the pre-season. Now he may be mailing it in when it comes to running the football, but as I've repeated 2,000 times over, you can't tell for sure one way or the other when he gets blown up in the backfield.

He's not had ANY chance to get in to ANY sort of a rhythm. It'd be like asking a QB to get in to a rythm when you pull him every other play.


Yes it's partially his fault because he spends too much time standing still or moving sideways behind the LoS. While he's busy going nowhere, the defenders are moving upfield to hit him behind the LoS.

You can say it as many times as you want. I understand that you aren't comfortable evaluating him yet. I am, and my evaluation is that he's useless right now.

I'm sure he still has at least most of the physical capability he ever had. What he doesn't have now is the guts to run like he used to. That's precisely why I think he sucks. I'd be much more forgiving if he had just lost it physically, a la Eddie.
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carpbeatch


Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 98
Location: Titanville
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

s_camp wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:
Partially his fault? The interior of the offensive line getting destroyed is his fault? Jesus, he can't block for himself too.

I dunno how many times I need to say that I'm not sure how he's running. What I can tell you is from watching those 2 plays, the one you mentioned and the one I mentioned about him juking out Jammer, it seems he's still got the talent, and there were those plays vs Tampa in the pre-season. Now he may be mailing it in when it comes to running the football, but as I've repeated 2,000 times over, you can't tell for sure one way or the other when he gets blown up in the backfield.

He's not had ANY chance to get in to ANY sort of a rhythm. It'd be like asking a QB to get in to a rythm when you pull him every other play.


Yes it's partially his fault because he spends too much time standing still or moving sideways behind the LoS. While he's busy going nowhere, the defenders are moving upfield to hit him behind the LoS.

You can say it as many times as you want. I understand that you aren't comfortable evaluating him yet. I am, and my evaluation is that he's useless right now.

I'm sure he still has at least most of the physical capability he ever had. What he doesn't have now is the guts to run like he used to. That's precisely why I think he sucks. I'd be much more forgiving if he had just lost it physically, a la Eddie.


Please stop making this stupid argument, man. He's moving laterally to find a damn hole. If he was just ramming in there with out a hole being developed you guys would be complaining about that. We should have kept Chris Henry if we wanted that style of running back.
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KingTitan


Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 10368
Location: Nashville,TN
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The juvenile in me laughs when people say ramming and hole in the same sentence. Lol
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s_camp


Joined: 10 Dec 2010
Posts: 2734
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carpbeatch wrote:
s_camp wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:
Partially his fault? The interior of the offensive line getting destroyed is his fault? Jesus, he can't block for himself too.

I dunno how many times I need to say that I'm not sure how he's running. What I can tell you is from watching those 2 plays, the one you mentioned and the one I mentioned about him juking out Jammer, it seems he's still got the talent, and there were those plays vs Tampa in the pre-season. Now he may be mailing it in when it comes to running the football, but as I've repeated 2,000 times over, you can't tell for sure one way or the other when he gets blown up in the backfield.

He's not had ANY chance to get in to ANY sort of a rhythm. It'd be like asking a QB to get in to a rythm when you pull him every other play.


Yes it's partially his fault because he spends too much time standing still or moving sideways behind the LoS. While he's busy going nowhere, the defenders are moving upfield to hit him behind the LoS.

You can say it as many times as you want. I understand that you aren't comfortable evaluating him yet. I am, and my evaluation is that he's useless right now.

I'm sure he still has at least most of the physical capability he ever had. What he doesn't have now is the guts to run like he used to. That's precisely why I think he sucks. I'd be much more forgiving if he had just lost it physically, a la Eddie.


Please stop making this stupid argument, man. He's moving laterally to find a damn hole. If he was just ramming in there with out a hole being developed you guys would be complaining about that. We should have kept Chris Henry if we wanted that style of running back.


If that was the problem, I would talk about it. But the problem is pretty much the opposite - the line does just enough to give a little bit of space. CJ is (or was?) quick and fast enough to take advantage of it. Instead, he moves sideways or stands still, the defense floods in, and we get what we've been getting. You can call it stupid all you want, I really don't care.

Your Chris Henry comparison makes me wonder if you actually understand my argument. I am not advocating that CJ do what Henry did. Henry used to dodge holes like they were snakes. He ran straight into his own linemen. I'm saying CJ should move quickly and aggressively into the small holes that are there and take the few yards available to him.
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carpbeatch


Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 98
Location: Titanville
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingTitan wrote:
The juvenile in me laughs when people say ramming and hole in the same sentence. Lol
Laughing
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ttitansfan4life


Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 23993
Location: Delaware
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingTitan wrote:
The juvenile in me laughs when people say ramming and hole in the same sentence. Lol


I lol'd
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TitanSlim


Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 2550
Location: NC
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look, you won't find a bigger Chris Johnson supporter than me but, he deserves most of the blame he's getting. If you hold-out in order to be paid like an elite RB then you better perform like one, bad o-line or not. And when you call yourself "Every Coach's Dream" a few years back, then you leave yourself to criticism. You would have to be blind to realize that CJ isn't running the way he was back in his 2k season. I'm still hopeful that he'll find his CJ2k form but I'm getting more and more doubtful by the games.
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gibbythemute


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good OP.
We have fary to many problems to address all at once.

If i could start anywhere it would definitely be the coaching staff. From top to bottom. I would love Gruden. He has passion and fire and its.something that is severely lacking in this orginazation. Im not saying he should be THE hire, but someone like him.
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