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Good, Bad, Ugly: Week 2
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dante9876

Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 26898

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:58 am Post subject:

Raidin wrote:

dante9876 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

Changing scheme has nothing to do with it,far more likely changing position did. Wiz just got abused, hopefully it's his injury but if not I'd prefer to see Parsons in and Wiz back at LG.

Every player on offense from last year has regress except maybe Palmer and he isnt good either. That is scheme change and coaching.

How is it scheme change?

Cooper and Barnes are to slow footed for ZBS. Wiz looks to be thinking to much about where he is suppose to be. McFadden sucked in the ZBS before. Please explain how guys good or bad got even worse from last year.

Raidin

Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5711
Location: Dublin

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:17 am Post subject:

dante9876 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

dante9876 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

Changing scheme has nothing to do with it,far more likely changing position did. Wiz just got abused, hopefully it's his injury but if not I'd prefer to see Parsons in and Wiz back at LG.

Every player on offense from last year has regress except maybe Palmer and he isnt good either. That is scheme change and coaching.

How is it scheme change?

Thinking were to be? Confused

He doesn't have to be anywhere, he just has to block the guy standing right in front him. I agree Cooper and Barnes are suited to ZBS but it was always going to be difficult for us to replace everyone when we had to picks or money.
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raidr4life wrote:

Imagine if EricAllen21 posted better. Just imagine.

Silver&Black88

Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 41597
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:25 am Post subject:

Raidin wrote:

dante9876 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

dante9876 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

Changing scheme has nothing to do with it,far more likely changing position did. Wiz just got abused, hopefully it's his injury but if not I'd prefer to see Parsons in and Wiz back at LG.

Every player on offense from last year has regress except maybe Palmer and he isnt good either. That is scheme change and coaching.

How is it scheme change?

Thinking were to be? Confused

Do you know how a ZBS works?

Raidin

Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5711
Location: Dublin

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:31 am Post subject:

Silver&Black88 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

dante9876 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

dante9876 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

Changing scheme has nothing to do with it,far more likely changing position did. Wiz just got abused, hopefully it's his injury but if not I'd prefer to see Parsons in and Wiz back at LG.

Every player on offense from last year has regress except maybe Palmer and he isnt good either. That is scheme change and coaching.

How is it scheme change?

Thinking were to be? Confused

Do you know how a ZBS works?

I'll let you enlighten me on this one.
_________________

raidr4life wrote:

Imagine if EricAllen21 posted better. Just imagine.

OakRaiders3828

Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 12503
Location: Lehigh Valley

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:55 am Post subject:

I though Wiz would be good in the ZBS. He's not the biggest lineman in the world, but he's quick and athletic, which is more important in the ZBS.
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OakRaiders3828

Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 12503
Location: Lehigh Valley

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:58 am Post subject:

Silver&Black88 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

dante9876 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

dante9876 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

Changing scheme has nothing to do with it,far more likely changing position did. Wiz just got abused, hopefully it's his injury but if not I'd prefer to see Parsons in and Wiz back at LG.

Every player on offense from last year has regress except maybe Palmer and he isnt good either. That is scheme change and coaching.

How is it scheme change?

Thinking were to be? Confused

Do you know how a ZBS works?

He's actually kinda right, basically, if you're uncovered you double team to where the play is going, and if you're covered you block that guy. Obviously there is more blocking techniques but that's the basics of it.
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Silver&Black88

Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 41597
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject:

OakRaiders3828 wrote:

Silver&Black88 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

dante9876 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

dante9876 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

Changing scheme has nothing to do with it,far more likely changing position did. Wiz just got abused, hopefully it's his injury but if not I'd prefer to see Parsons in and Wiz back at LG.

Every player on offense from last year has regress except maybe Palmer and he isnt good either. That is scheme change and coaching.

How is it scheme change?

Thinking were to be? Confused

Do you know how a ZBS works?

You go to a zone then block. You don't just stand around and hit someone. That's how Wisnewski could get confused about where to be.

RaidersAreOne

Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 16832
Location: Canada, but don't worry... i'm not one of those damn dirty french.

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:17 pm Post subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTypGbEUqYo

TKO is pissed.
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First jersey purchased: Jamarcus Russell.
Second jersey purchased: Rolando McClain.
Next purchases: Every Chiefs, Chargers and Broncos player.

Raidin

Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5711
Location: Dublin

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:19 pm Post subject:

Silver&Black88 wrote:

OakRaiders3828 wrote:

Silver&Black88 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

dante9876 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

dante9876 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

Changing scheme has nothing to do with it,far more likely changing position did. Wiz just got abused, hopefully it's his injury but if not I'd prefer to see Parsons in and Wiz back at LG.

Every player on offense from last year has regress except maybe Palmer and he isnt good either. That is scheme change and coaching.

How is it scheme change?

Thinking were to be? Confused

Do you know how a ZBS works?

You go to a zone then block. You don't just stand around and hit someone. That's how Wisnewski could get confused about where to be.

No not really. Some linemen will be asked to block guys who are in their zone and others will be asked to move down field and block there, similar to being covered an uncovered. When Solia is standing opposite of Wiz and under his nose than there is no question about who he has to block and he should never be getting confused, it's pretty damn obvious who he has to block.
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raidr4life wrote:

Imagine if EricAllen21 posted better. Just imagine.

dante9876

Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 26898

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject:

RaidersAreOne wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTypGbEUqYo

TKO is pissed.

He is so outta here soon.

Baggabonez

Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 8060
Location: RaiderNation

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:54 pm Post subject:

dante9876 wrote:

RaidersAreOne wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTypGbEUqYo

TKO is pissed.

He is so outta here soon.

HAHA. I love when TK speaks (as detrimental as it is). He has always been my insight into the disposition of the locker room. 1) He talks too much, 2) He doesn't understand how to handle the media (which speaks to the culture of the team), 3)Clearly his disposition and demeanor are that of a loser, 4) The key word he used that I hated the most was "discouraging".

You don't often hear a player suggest "I'm discouraged" which reeks of hopelessness. Good thing we reupped him! Again, TK needs a fresh start to reach his potential but the core of this team must be broken up to change the culture.
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Nodisrespect wrote:

(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:

Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly

Baggabonez

Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 8060
Location: RaiderNation

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject:

Raidin wrote:

Silver&Black88 wrote:

Do you know how a ZBS works?

I'll let you enlighten me on this one.

Of course there are different versions. However, in the most simplistic way I personally would explain it:

Lighter, quicker, more athletic offensive lineman are used to wall off defensive lineman and continue pushing them in the direction that they already wanted to go. In essence, using their power against them to create overpursuit lanes by which the RB can use to exploit the defense. In many cases the OL will use the direction of the play to his advantage to cut the unsuspecting backside DL or LB at the exact moment the defensive player realizes the RB is cutting back. The most common ZBS run is the "stretch". As suggested by the name, the RB will stretch the defense on a pitch and make a single cut up field when he senses overpursuit.

In ZBS pass protection, rather than having a specific man, as in PBS, the OL is responsible for an area. This could mean distinctly different responsibilities and requires the unit to process the pass attack quickly and accurately. Again the objective to not to control the LoS through power but to disrupt the attack just long enough for the QB to get the ball away. Which is why a ZBS is often paired with WCO because it gets the ball away quickly.

At least this is the way I know ZBS to be. I'm sure others can contribute their experiences.
_________________

Nodisrespect wrote:

(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:

Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly

bitty

Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 4406

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:30 pm Post subject:

OakRaiders3828 wrote:

Silver&Black88 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

dante9876 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

dante9876 wrote:

Raidin wrote:

Changing scheme has nothing to do with it,far more likely changing position did. Wiz just got abused, hopefully it's his injury but if not I'd prefer to see Parsons in and Wiz back at LG.

Every player on offense from last year has regress except maybe Palmer and he isnt good either. That is scheme change and coaching.

How is it scheme change?

Thinking were to be? Confused

Do you know how a ZBS works?

Or go for the LB

Silver&Black88

Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 41597
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:31 pm Post subject:

dante9876 wrote:

RaidersAreOne wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTypGbEUqYo

TKO is pissed.

He is so outta here soon.

I'd be cool with it for a decent to above average CB to be perfectly honest. I don't think McKenzie or Allen have the patience for this kind of stuff like previous regimes did and we desperately need a decent CB who we can keep for the future. I'd like to see more Houston and Bryant inside to get another look for pass rushing. Or even try Bilukidi in spells.

ZoomWaffle

Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5799
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject:

Silver&Black88 wrote:

dante9876 wrote:

RaidersAreOne wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTypGbEUqYo

TKO is pissed.

He is so outta here soon.

+1

TK is good, but d-line is our deepest position and I'd rather give up some of that to shore up much weaker areas. Plus, we have all been waiting to see Houston inside for a while. Houston, Seymour, Bryant, Shaugnessy, and Biukidi offer us quite a bit of versatility.

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