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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And honestly I'm starting to wonder just how much we as the fan base have to do with the culture.

I don't live in KC so I won't pretend to know much of anythign abotu this, but I think about my college, Texas A&M. I see how the fan base is so hungry for success, they've grown beyond impatient, and are forever teetering on the edge of the abyss. It's like the instant something bad happens, everything changes, and it compounds itself and snowballs out of control quickly.

There are many similarities in KC. A fanbase very hungry for serious success. A devote fanbase that takes their team very seriously. A fanbase that is either eternally optimistic about the future, or eternally pesimistic about our ability to capitalize on potential or right the ship.

I know I'm trying to take this less seriously. It often took several days to recover from a bad game last year, and that's just not healthy. I'm trying to make sure I'm not part of the problem, even if that is just a tad self-important. Laughing
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
And honestly I'm starting to wonder just how much we as the fan base have to do with the culture.

I don't live in KC so I won't pretend to know much of anythign abotu this, but I think about my college, Texas A&M. I see how the fan base is so hungry for success, they've grown beyond impatient, and are forever teetering on the edge of the abyss. It's like the instant something bad happens, everything changes, and it compounds itself and snowballs out of control quickly.

There are many similarities in KC. A fanbase very hungry for serious success. A devote fanbase that takes their team very seriously. A fanbase that is either eternally optimistic about the future, or eternally pesimistic about our ability to capitalize on potential or right the ship.

I know I'm trying to take this less seriously. It often took several days to recover from a bad game last year, and that's just not healthy. I'm trying to make sure I'm not part of the problem, even if that is just a tad self-important. Laughing


Bigs, just a tad??!! LOL

Laughing

Seriously, maybe it is more complicated, but I think most of us have been fans of a team that for many different reasons has been mediocre for a long period of time in the NFL landscape. And I am not talking about a New York Jets media-frenzy affair, but feeling the excitement of knowing your team, come hell or high water, has the energy and ability to be competitive each and every week. We want our team to take the next step of being a team to contend with - to force our way into the discussion. Right now, we seem to be an afterthought in the NFL and have been for some time.

We want to be energized. Some of us have the eternal optimism to fervently believe in 13-3 seasons while some of us feel we have a decent understanding of the NFL enough to be able to be critical of decisions made or not made by the team. I am in that second category. I want the Chiefs to be successful and I have my ideas how I think they could be. I am just a fan. No more or less a fan than the one that thinks we will be 13-3 with a top 5 defense this year. We both want the same thing.

Wow, I apologize for getting all philosophical! Like you bigs, I was more disgusted not so much by the loss, but more by the lack of fire and effort against the Falcons when the going got tough.
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
My overriding concern whether or not reflective of Cassel or more a lack of fire collectively as a team, is a team not having that fight play after play no matter who is out or what the core. This is what really concerns me. Time will tell if the fire is lit. I hope so!

Exactly my concern. I stopped watching with about 6min to go (which I almost never do) because I felt like we had given up at that point. I don't care what the scoreboard says, you do not ever stop trying. It sends the wrong message, and IMO it has registered given our performance.

Essentially any adversity seems to derail this team, and has for quite some time. A missed FG was the catalyst for a 40pt blow out? A game we weren't in for nearly the entire 2nd half?

RVM, I'm worried because these are overarching issues that have seemingly been around for a decade or more. Dealing with adversity and performing consistently are issues that more then anything that seem to be holding us up.

I'm further ticked because it seems like we almost accepted this. We knew most of these players would be out for over a week or more in many cases. GTD sounds good, but the fact is they most likely knew Flowers, Toribio, and Brown would not go. The fact we did not do anything to address this means we basically just wrote this game off, and that is totally unacceptable for any team, but especially one in year 4 of a new regime, supposedly entering a SB contending window.

It seems like this is just another year of the "process" and maybe we don't get lucky this year. IMO as you get a team rebuilt, tactics should change to an extent. I'm not saying go all Al Davis and trade a 1st round pick for a CB, but sign a vet for week one. Throw a little money around in UFA to get a solid back-up, that wasn't selling insurance for the past two years. It's OK to do that at DE but not DB?

Our window is opening, this we've discussed, but if we don't realize that as an organization and adjust our tactics somewhat to accomodate that, then we will never even have a shot.

It's year 4 and we are still getting blown out, that is all I should have to say.


Good points, across the board. One thing I'll add, is people love to blame much of the downfall on Cassel. What I want to know, is what the freak happened to the o-line? They went from dominant the entire first half to a sieve that couldn't get any push after the missed field goal. That's a huge problem, because that's a whole group that failed once they got the least bit discouraged. The o-line's drop seems really representative of much of what you're saying.
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Arrowhead86


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
My overriding concern whether or not reflective of Cassel or more a lack of fire collectively as a team, is a team not having that fight play after play no matter who is out or what the core. This is what really concerns me. Time will tell if the fire is lit. I hope so!

Exactly my concern. I stopped watching with about 6min to go (which I almost never do) because I felt like we had given up at that point. I don't care what the scoreboard says, you do not ever stop trying. It sends the wrong message, and IMO it has registered given our performance.

Essentially any adversity seems to derail this team, and has for quite some time. A missed FG was the catalyst for a 40pt blow out? A game we weren't in for nearly the entire 2nd half?

RVM, I'm worried because these are overarching issues that have seemingly been around for a decade or more. Dealing with adversity and performing consistently are issues that more then anything that seem to be holding us up.

I'm further ticked because it seems like we almost accepted this. We knew most of these players would be out for over a week or more in many cases. GTD sounds good, but the fact is they most likely knew Flowers, Toribio, and Brown would not go. The fact we did not do anything to address this means we basically just wrote this game off, and that is totally unacceptable for any team, but especially one in year 4 of a new regime, supposedly entering a SB contending window.

It seems like this is just another year of the "process" and maybe we don't get lucky this year. IMO as you get a team rebuilt, tactics should change to an extent. I'm not saying go all Al Davis and trade a 1st round pick for a CB, but sign a vet for week one. Throw a little money around in UFA to get a solid back-up, that wasn't selling insurance for the past two years. It's OK to do that at DE but not DB?

Our window is opening, this we've discussed, but if we don't realize that as an organization and adjust our tactics somewhat to accomodate that, then we will never even have a shot.

It's year 4 and we are still getting blown out, that is all I should have to say.


Good points, across the board. One thing I'll add, is people love to blame much of the downfall on Cassel. What I want to know, is what the freak happened to the o-line? They went from dominant the entire first half to a sieve that couldn't get any push after the missed field goal. That's a huge problem, because that's a whole group that failed once they got the least bit discouraged. The o-line's drop seems really representative of much of what you're saying.


I think Atlanta adjusted because we didn't threaten deep in the 1st half. They brought their defense up to clean up the open middle and kept more in the box. Killed the running game and then Cassel wilted.

That coaches film isnt out yet (cmonnnn game pass.. cmon!) but I think the blogosphere and more will certainly get some good video out when it does. I can't make videos (no clue how really lol - I mean I do have fraps for gaming records but doesnt the nfl get pretty mad at their stuff posted on youtube?)
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's slow down a little bit...the blowout was clearly all on the defense (besides the fact that if we had a better QB we could have stayed in it). Maybe the O-Line gave up, maybe they didn't...if they did, it's likely cuz of the non-belief in the QB (as RVM pointed out). The fact remains the offense was near perfect in the first half against a good defense...if they can maintain anywhere close to that efficiency, we're gonna win a lot of games. The reasons for the 2nd half failure on offense is well documented and I don't think any of us expect to be in many of those situations.

So take our 1st half offensive efficiency, add a few superstars on defense, and know that we will only play an offense of that caliber 3-5 more times and it's hard not to see quite a few W's.

We should be able to withstand some injuries, but we can't expect to never get blown out no matter the injury situation against a top team. From a current roster point of view, the loss of DJ or Flowers alone is crippling because of what's behind them....much more so than any other position. That's on Pioli and I hope he feels the heat right now. Until he makes any positive depth upgrades at CB/ILB, we just have to hope that those two guys stay healthy.

So, keeping in mind that not only were we without one of those guys, but the other seemed to be playing hurt, combined with the 5 or 6 other guys missing on D and playing a healthy Falcons offense...there isn't too much to be worried about other than Pioli as a GM and hoping we can stay healthy....and maybe that's alot to worry about, but I guess what i'm saying is we should still be very confident in our team as long as those two guys are playing until we see otherwise. (I also realize Flowers could miss another game, Pioli will stick with Jock, who will contribute greatly to a loss next week, and the season will be in dire straits at 0-2).

Maybe that will end up getting him fired, which in turn will get us a new QB...so there's really nothing but positives Very Happy
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the end of week 1 the Packers, Saints, Steelers, Bengals are all 0-1. These are all teams that were not only expected to win a lot of games in the regular season, but make some noise in the playoffs as well.

The sky isn't falling kiddies, calm down.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikek163 wrote:
At the end of week 1 the Packers, Saints, Steelers, Bengals are all 0-1. These are all teams that were not only expected to win a lot of games in the regular season, but make some noise in the playoffs as well.

The sky isn't falling kiddies, calm down.

I actually watched most of if not all of those games except the Steelers one, and the big difference I saw was none of them got blown out as bad as we did, and none of them gave up either.

The NO game was probably the one you could say they would almost be justified in giving up all things considered. I mean they had coaches and players gone, the whole scandal, and on top of that some rookie came into their house and punked their defense, and they were getting beat by a team that not many expected to do much this season. Yet the Saints kept going, even though their defense could not stop them.

The Bengals had no right going into Baltimore on Monday night and tryign to hang with them, but despite the refs best efforts, they did for the majority of that game, and even when down by a good margin, they weren't just giving up.

Mike, I'm not panicing, I'm just trying to make sense of this. Again, we got 40 put on us at home. That was understandable in 2008, 09, and even 10, but after 3 years of this FO and 4 years of rebuilding, it shouldn't be that bad. All of those starters out doesn't explain all that quit I saw on the field. That's a cultural thing this team has seemingly had since DT was around.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
Let's slow down a little bit...the blowout was clearly all on the defense

I disagree. 3 TO's by the offense and only one is blatantly on Cassel. Those TO's led to the blow out. Oh, and a missed FG.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
Let's slow down a little bit...the blowout was clearly all on the defense

I disagree. 3 TO's by the offense and only one is blatantly on Cassel. Those TO's led to the blow out. Oh, and a missed FG.


But the blowout and those TO's wouldn't have happened if the Falcons didn't score every possession even before the TO's. The offense scored 24 pts, 17 at half...if you get blown out scoring that many it's the D's fault. It's the offense/Cassel's fault that we couldn't KEEP scoring...but the offense basically did it's job. None of us would ever expect a Cassel led offense to keep up like that when the run game is no longer an option.

...and if you do still put some of it on the offense you're either expecting perfection or our QB to do things we don't believe he's capable of. They performed at an extremely high level for over half the game. Just because some guys besides Cassel had a few bad plays later on doesn't make their overall play at fault for a blowout.
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
At the end of week 1 the Packers, Saints, Steelers, Bengals are all 0-1. These are all teams that were not only expected to win a lot of games in the regular season, but make some noise in the playoffs as well.

The sky isn't falling kiddies, calm down.

I actually watched most of if not all of those games except the Steelers one, and the big difference I saw was none of them got blown out as bad as we did, and none of them gave up either.

The NO game was probably the one you could say they would almost be justified in giving up all things considered. I mean they had coaches and players gone, the whole scandal, and on top of that some rookie came into their house and punked their defense, and they were getting beat by a team that not many expected to do much this season. Yet the Saints kept going, even though their defense could not stop them.

The Bengals had no right going into Baltimore on Monday night and tryign to hang with them, but despite the refs best efforts, they did for the majority of that game, and even when down by a good margin, they weren't just giving up.

Mike, I'm not panicing, I'm just trying to make sense of this. Again, we got 40 put on us at home. That was understandable in 2008, 09, and even 10, but after 3 years of this FO and 4 years of rebuilding, it shouldn't be that bad. All of those starters out doesn't explain all that quit I saw on the field. That's a cultural thing this team has seemingly had since DT was around.


The Bengals gave up in the 4th just like we did. And the other teams didn't "give up" because like you said the games were closer. Im not upset that our guys didn't give it 100% after being PUNISHED defensively.

I also think with Hali back we are a completely different team defensively. It doesn't look to promising that Flowers is going to play but regardless I think our defense is going to pull through and get the job done for us in Buffalo.
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
Let's slow down a little bit...the blowout was clearly all on the defense

I disagree. 3 TO's by the offense and only one is blatantly on Cassel. Those TO's led to the blow out. Oh, and a missed FG.


If you score on every drive in the first half, but you're losing, that's on the defense. The offense shouldn't have to be flawless in order to win the game.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
Let's slow down a little bit...the blowout was clearly all on the defense

I disagree. 3 TO's by the offense and only one is blatantly on Cassel. Those TO's led to the blow out. Oh, and a missed FG.


If you score on every drive in the first half, but you're losing, that's on the defense. The offense shouldn't have to be flawless in order to win the game.


Yeah, that's what i was trying to say.
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