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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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 Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:04 pm Post subject: The Vikes defense under Alan Wiliams |
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I found this article intriguing as a potential indication to how the defense might be evolving under Alan Williams. It seems like there may be more of an intention to move away from the classic Frazier/Dungy Cover 2.
http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Breaking_down_the_tape_of_the_Vikings_win_over_the_Jaguars091112
| Quote: | | Each blitzed six times on a day the Vikings sent five or more rushers 13 times in Gabbert's 42 dropbacks (30.1%), and Henderson cleaned up a pressure by Robison for a sack in 2.7 seconds |
| Quote: | | Getting a reroute would help cover for Cook's lacking speed in those situations, but it's impossible when playing a bailout technique in Cover-3. DC Alan Williams took plenty of those chances against a run-first Jaguars offense, rolling into a single-safety look on roughly half of Jacksonville's snaps |
Breakdown of snaps between 3rd LB and 3rd CB:
Chris Cook (74)
Antoine Winfield (74)
Josh Robinson (39)
Chad Greenway (79)
Erin Henderson (79)
Jasper Brinkley (41)
Pretty even.
| Quote: | | Gabbert targeted Robinson four times and completed them all for 28 yards. |
Rough start, at least he didnt give up anything significant but you dont want him to have a 0% success rate.
| Quote: | | Winfield was his usual self -- playing the slot in nickel, knifing through trash for seven tackles (six solo) and getting targeted only three times, one complete on a checkdown in the flat for 8. |
Nice to have Winfield back there! It seems like Blackmon got a lot of work in the slot, he was silent for the most part.
| Quote: | | Rookie FS Harrison Smith (77) got run over once but otherwise was solid and assignment-sound. He was in on seven tackles (three solo), saved a touchdown ...... Smith spent more time near the line of scrimmage than Raymond, who let Lewis get behind him for a 1-yard touchdown off play action one play after the MJD steamroll. |
Smith had a sharp day, but Raymond gave up a few plays. I hope the team continues to keep Raymond out there, who is more of the Free Safety in the vikes Cover 3 look with Smith as the SS in the box. As expected in this look.
Seems to me that the Vikes will probably go with more Cover 3 looks against run heavy teams and use the Cover 2 against pass heavy teams, kind of dispels the idea that the Vikes are purely a Cover 2 team. Which is why the Vikes coveted a Safety like Smith who can play up in the box or in deep halves.
This is a nice overview of the defensive secondary, and overall, what Alan Williams hopes to accomplish. Discuss. Where does the defense need to improve going forward? Hopefully we can keep this thread going through the course of the season and see how the defense evolves on a weekly basis. |
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HighHopes
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Robinson may not have broken up any passes, but 4 for 28 really isnt too bad. Of course he has to stop one sooner or later lol.
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| HighHopes wrote: | | Robinson may not have broken up any passes, but 4 for 28 really isnt too bad. Of course he has to stop one sooner or later lol. |
Overall, yes. Giving up those short passes and wrapping up is key. But Gabbert was extremely efficient on third down in the first half, so while keeping things short is ideal, you can keep drives alive as an offense and the Jags were able to take advantage of some of those underneath zones. Solid debut for Robinson overall, id like to see him get in there and and get some deflections.
I would be very interested in finding out how much man coverage and zone coverage was implemented from the CBs. If your playing in Cover 3 looks, you have to play a lot more man, and if the team spent half its time in Cover 3, I would guess that there was probably a near 50-50 split between the CBs running zone or man. |
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Klomp
Joined: 11 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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It seemed a lot of people were skeptical about the Williams hire because of the whole Frazier cover 2 phenomenon. But really, our only bad defensive year was with Pagac at defensive coordinator. I think the struggles were more a reflection of Pagac than of a system that many here said we need to get rid of.
Williams actually doesn't remind me of Frazier. He reminds me of Mike Tomlin.
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Kellerman
Joined: 16 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Klomp wrote: | It seemed a lot of people were skeptical about the Williams hire because of the whole Frazier cover 2 phenomenon. But really, our only bad defensive year was with Pagac at defensive coordinator. I think the struggles were more a reflection of Pagac than of a system that many here said we need to get rid of.
Williams actually doesn't remind me of Frazier. He reminds me of Mike Tomlin. |
Pagac might have played a part, but Frazier was still there. In the end, it comes down to what you can put out on the field. If you give - Lebeau guys like Benny Sapp, Cedric Griffin and Sherels as starters, you are going to be in big trouble. I don't know whether Pagac is a good DC or not, but he got the worst possible year to prove that one way or the other. I'm sure the system he ran was influenced by the personnel as well, limited options and such.
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Klomp
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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True, but I think the run defense yesterday looked better than it did all last year.
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Kellerman
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Klomp wrote: | | True, but I think the run defense yesterday looked better than it did all last year. |
I think it's a case of where you get on the upswing, and suddenly everything starts rolling your way. Kevin Williams not hampered by nagging injuries, Brinkley, Erin Henderson with a year under his belt, Guys like Raymond tackling better, the DB's more confident in coverage. It's a team process after all.
Alan Williams plays his part, but to me the most credit has to be to the players on the field.
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The Gnat
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Kellerman wrote: | | Klomp wrote: | | True, but I think the run defense yesterday looked better than it did all last year. |
I think it's a case of where you get on the upswing, and suddenly everything starts rolling your way. Kevin Williams not hampered by nagging injuries, Brinkley, Erin Henderson with a year under his belt, Guys like Raymond tackling better, the DB's more confident in coverage. It's a team process after all.
Alan Williams plays his part, but to me the most credit has to be to the players on the field. |
I was going to comment something similar I think having Harrison Smith and Mistral Raymond with a year and training camp under his belt made much more of a difference in the run defense then switching coordinators did.
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vikingsrule
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Smith has really been a solid pickup for this team, given his versatility. Given that he can play in the box and in deep halves, MN has flexibility in being a Cover 3 and Cover 2 team. Usually if you have one dimensional safetys, its hard to shift in and out of those looks. I like Smith in the box just as much as I do in deep halves.
Further, look at the CBs the Vikes have added since Williams was hired. Josh Robinson, a 4.3 guy. AJ Jefferson a low 4.4 runner. These are guys with great natural athleticism and speed, which mostly benefits man coverage CBs.
I believe the intention is to have a diverse set of schemes. While Cover 2 is likely ideal against pass oriented offenses (will see lots of them Chi, Det and GB), being able to slide into Cover 3 looks against run heavy teams like Jax, SF, Hou and TN will really give this team an opportunity to be more creative on a weekly basis. |
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SteelKing728
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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I like the hire before. I like that we are moving away purely from Cover 2.
We just really need Letroy Guion and Jasper Brinkley to step up. If they can do that, we could have a very good defense this year.
I have more faith in Letroy Guion though than Brinkley. 
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| SteelKing728 wrote: | I like the hire before. I like that we are moving away purely from Cover 2.
We just really need Letroy Guion and Jasper Brinkley to step up. If they can do that, we could have a very good defense this year.
I have more faith in Letroy Guion though than Brinkley. |
Guion took like 60 snaps against Jax and Brinkley took 41. Brinkley sees the field as much as Josh Robinson does, so MN does need more production from Guion than it does Brinkley at this point. |
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SteelKing728
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| vikingsrule wrote: | | SteelKing728 wrote: | I like the hire before. I like that we are moving away purely from Cover 2.
We just really need Letroy Guion and Jasper Brinkley to step up. If they can do that, we could have a very good defense this year.
I have more faith in Letroy Guion though than Brinkley. |
Guion took like 60 snaps against Jax and Brinkley took 41. Brinkley sees the field as much as Josh Robinson does, so MN does need more production from Guion than it does Brinkley at this point. |
Well until we get a bonafide MLB on this team, or if Jasper Brinkley steps up, thats just how its going to be.
People seem too quick to judge Guion. he seems to get nice penetration sometimes.
Hopefully against the Colts we'll see how he does. We can't give Andrew Luck a chance to step up in the pocket and make it easy on him. Both Guion and Williams need to bring the pressure along with Allen and Robison.
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PurpleMugen
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Kellerman wrote: | | Klomp wrote: | | True, but I think the run defense yesterday looked better than it did all last year. |
I think it's a case of where you get on the upswing, and suddenly everything starts rolling your way. Kevin Williams not hampered by nagging injuries, Brinkley, Erin Henderson with a year under his belt, Guys like Raymond tackling better, the DB's more confident in coverage. It's a team process after all.
Alan Williams plays his part, but to me the most credit has to be to the players on the field. |
Bingo. On point.
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ArcticNorseman
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Where the heck is Floyd Peters?! . . . oh, wait, only VD, Disaacs and a couple other guys remember watching him. I'm not 1000% sure, but I think Tony Dungy learned to scheme defenses from that guy.
So, the 4-3 style of defense the Vikes currently play has been in this franchise for 25 years or so.
I can say this -- guys, quit harping on 'Tampa 2' . . . really.
Let the coaches coach and the defense play. As this season goes forward with the younger, faster, better personnel on this squad, you'll see different things . . . better things. It all starts up front, and I believe this team has a very, very good D-line rotation with depth and a couple really talented starters -- ya think? 
Get those youngsters in the backfield some game time experience and time to match wits with Winfield and this defense will be goshdarn-near formidable!  |
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Klomp
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| SteelKing728 wrote: | | vikingsrule wrote: |
Guion took like 60 snaps against Jax and Brinkley took 41. Brinkley sees the field as much as Josh Robinson does, so MN does need more production from Guion than it does Brinkley at this point. |
Well until we get a bonafide MLB on this team, or if Jasper Brinkley steps up, thats just how its going to be. |
That's a fair point. I think ideally though, your MLB is the linebacker that is on the field for every play.
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