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This year's draft will show Holmgren the door!
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 16731
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
If that is the case, bruce, then Haslam's career as NFL owner is going to start off as a failure. Evaluating a draft after one year is tantamount to cashing out your 401K at age 35. It's beyond stupid, and it will cost you.


That's the case, Ditch. I wouldn't want people on my team who make those kinds of decisions for those kinds of reasons. I am certain Haslam won't, either. He will get better people.


Except you don't know if anything you think about the situation is actually true or not.

Considering your track record for conspiracy theories and made-up gobbledy-gook, I'd bet my next year's salary that it's not the case.

If you are privy to the goings-on of the War Room on draft day, by all means, let us know. Otherwise, your opinions are just that: opinions.

Belief in an opinion does not make it fact.
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Dawgpoun8017


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 12235
Location: Waterloo,NY
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
bruceb wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
If that is the case, bruce, then Haslam's career as NFL owner is going to start off as a failure. Evaluating a draft after one year is tantamount to cashing out your 401K at age 35. It's beyond stupid, and it will cost you.


That's the case, Ditch. I wouldn't want people on my team who make those kinds of decisions for those kinds of reasons. I am certain Haslam won't, either. He will get better people.



Or he will get worse people. not like we havent seen that before


His rep in the family business is to surround himself with the best.

I am confident he will figure out how to do that in this new business, too.


Cirousity Bruce.... Since you are generally the most vocal anti H&H guy. say they do fire both of them who is the savior that is gonna be brought in to save this team......
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bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 6900
Location: Rocky River, OH
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
bruceb wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
If that is the case, bruce, then Haslam's career as NFL owner is going to start off as a failure. Evaluating a draft after one year is tantamount to cashing out your 401K at age 35. It's beyond stupid, and it will cost you.


That's the case, Ditch. I wouldn't want people on my team who make those kinds of decisions for those kinds of reasons. I am certain Haslam won't, either. He will get better people.


Except you don't know if anything you think about the situation is actually true or not.

Considering your track record for conspiracy theories and made-up gobbledy-gook, I'd bet my next year's salary that it's not the case.

If you are privy to the goings-on of the War Room on draft day, by all means, let us know. Otherwise, your opinions are just that: opinions.

Belief in an opinion does not make it fact.


As valid as yours.

Not the first time we have disagreed.

Fortunately, the near future will prove one of us right and one of us not.
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 16731
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
bruceb wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
If that is the case, bruce, then Haslam's career as NFL owner is going to start off as a failure. Evaluating a draft after one year is tantamount to cashing out your 401K at age 35. It's beyond stupid, and it will cost you.


That's the case, Ditch. I wouldn't want people on my team who make those kinds of decisions for those kinds of reasons. I am certain Haslam won't, either. He will get better people.


Except you don't know if anything you think about the situation is actually true or not.

Considering your track record for conspiracy theories and made-up gobbledy-gook, I'd bet my next year's salary that it's not the case.

If you are privy to the goings-on of the War Room on draft day, by all means, let us know. Otherwise, your opinions are just that: opinions.

Belief in an opinion does not make it fact.


As valid as yours.

Not the first time we have disagreed.

Fortunately, the near future will prove one of us right and one of us not.


I didn't invalidate your opinion, just questioned your use of it as a fact.

And you're right about that, we'll see soon enough.

Except I'll actually be happy if Weeden is successful.
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Drew_Carey


Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Posts: 1478
Location: Seattle - Cleveland
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
who is the savior that is gonna be brought in to save this team......


depends on who wants manage the team when its in LA....
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 45078
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drew_Carey wrote:
Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
who is the savior that is gonna be brought in to save this team......


depends on who wants manage the team when its in LA....
...
team cannot be moved til 2027
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Drew_Carey


Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Posts: 1478
Location: Seattle - Cleveland
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
who is the savior that is gonna be brought in to save this team......


depends on who wants manage the team when its in LA....
...
team cannot be moved til 2027


Just depends if moving creates more dollars than it costs, and the other owners approving vote.... Which might be conditional on $ as well. Haha.


Last edited by Drew_Carey on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 5838
Location: Salem
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drew_Carey wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
who is the savior that is gonna be brought in to save this team......


depends on who wants manage the team when its in LA....
...
team cannot be moved til 2027


Just depends if moving creates more dollars than it costs...


oh boy. Bring the pain.....


apparently you missed the 30 pages of the new browns owner and how he could not move the team.
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Drew_Carey


Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Posts: 1478
Location: Seattle - Cleveland
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
who is the savior that is gonna be brought in to save this team......


depends on who wants manage the team when its in LA....
...
team cannot be moved til 2027


Just depends if moving creates more dollars than it costs...


oh boy. Bring the pain.....


apparently you missed the 30 pages of the new browns owner and how he could not move the team.


I didn't say they were going to move the team...

it is possible even if unlikely.

It all comes down to money.
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DawgX


Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 10917
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
Entropy wrote:
When Haslam comes out and says "I fired Mike Holmgren because of the 2012 draft" then your opinion will not be dumb, and also there will be monkeys flying out ...nevermind

Anyway, if and when Holmgren loses his job it will have absolutely nothing to do with the 2012 draft. But I get it, you wanted to draft other players. I suggest you work hard, make a billion dollars, buy your own team, and draft the players you want with your super genius NFL player assessment skills (like reading draft websites).


I don't agree with the premise of the thread, and I have not read every post, but I have to disagree with bolded, above, and with a couple of other things I picked up on.

With respect to the bolded comment, you can bet your butt that Haslam will consider everything he can think of -- including every draft -- probably using the experience and knowledge he gained as a minority owner of PIT.

Second, there seem to be more than a few people commenting favorably on and expressing support for H&H based Haslam's belief in "building through the draft". The PIT way probably as much or more than any team's is BPA.

That's not how Weeden was picked. The vast majority opinion is that Weeden was a reach...not BPA.

The "why" Weeden was picked is important, too. After the season, Holmgren was stunned by Lerner's disappointment with the progress of the "rebuild". All of a sudden Holmgren decided to be available to the media, prognosticated that the team would do better than 6 wins, and "reached" for Weeden, saying he was ""He's as prepared to come in and start as any rookie I've seen in a long time."

The other H & the S just nodded and agreed that Weeden is "the guy".

H&H&S are "all in" on Weeden.

If the team fails this year in large part due to the fact that he fails, could be that all three of their heads will roll, in part because of the last draft.


You don't know how teams ranked the players in the draft. There's a very good chance that the Browns did have Weeden as the BPA. Didn't they actually talk about that in a press conference? I thought they said they had him as a top 15-20 player in the draft. I could be thinking of another player but I'm pretty sure that's what H&H said about Weeden.

It's stupid to judge a draft class after one season. There's plenty of players who look like complete disappointments after one or two seasons but then they finally start to play well. Plus, it's not like Heckert has a bad track record at drafting so far. As of right now, his first two drafts look like pretty good ones.

If the players drafted in 2012 struggle this year and Haslam fires H&H over it... it would be an incredibly stupid and rash decision. If H&H are let go, I really doubt it would be because of the 2012 draft, especially if some of this year's rookies play well. If H&H are fired, it's because Haslam wanted to bring in his own guys such as Joe Banner.
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bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 6900
Location: Rocky River, OH
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgX wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Entropy wrote:
When Haslam comes out and says "I fired Mike Holmgren because of the 2012 draft" then your opinion will not be dumb, and also there will be monkeys flying out ...nevermind

Anyway, if and when Holmgren loses his job it will have absolutely nothing to do with the 2012 draft. But I get it, you wanted to draft other players. I suggest you work hard, make a billion dollars, buy your own team, and draft the players you want with your super genius NFL player assessment skills (like reading draft websites).


I don't agree with the premise of the thread, and I have not read every post, but I have to disagree with bolded, above, and with a couple of other things I picked up on.

With respect to the bolded comment, you can bet your butt that Haslam will consider everything he can think of -- including every draft -- probably using the experience and knowledge he gained as a minority owner of PIT.

Second, there seem to be more than a few people commenting favorably on and expressing support for H&H based Haslam's belief in "building through the draft". The PIT way probably as much or more than any team's is BPA.

That's not how Weeden was picked. The vast majority opinion is that Weeden was a reach...not BPA.

The "why" Weeden was picked is important, too. After the season, Holmgren was stunned by Lerner's disappointment with the progress of the "rebuild". All of a sudden Holmgren decided to be available to the media, prognosticated that the team would do better than 6 wins, and "reached" for Weeden, saying he was ""He's as prepared to come in and start as any rookie I've seen in a long time."

The other H & the S just nodded and agreed that Weeden is "the guy".

H&H&S are "all in" on Weeden.

If the team fails this year in large part due to the fact that he fails, could be that all three of their heads will roll, in part because of the last draft.


You don't know how teams ranked the players in the draft. There's a very good chance that the Browns did have Weeden as the BPA. Didn't they actually talk about that in a press conference? I thought they said they had him as a top 15-20 player in the draft. I could be thinking of another player but I'm pretty sure that's what H&H said about Weeden.

It's stupid to judge a draft class after one season. There's plenty of players who look like complete disappointments after one or two seasons but then they finally start to play well. Plus, it's not like Heckert has a bad track record at drafting so far. As of right now, his first two drafts look like pretty good ones.

If the players drafted in 2012 struggle this year and Haslam fires H&H over it... it would be an incredibly stupid and rash decision. If H&H are let go, I really doubt it would be because of the 2012 draft, especially if some of this year's rookies play well. If H&H are fired, it's because Haslam wanted to bring in his own guys such as Joe Banner.


As I said earlier, the 2012 draft will be one factor, and the Weeden pick will be a big part of it.

The fact -- if it is -- that H&H&S had Weeden ranked that high will make it a damning factor.

Bad judgment.
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BooyaCS


Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 7516
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
DawgX wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Entropy wrote:
When Haslam comes out and says "I fired Mike Holmgren because of the 2012 draft" then your opinion will not be dumb, and also there will be monkeys flying out ...nevermind

Anyway, if and when Holmgren loses his job it will have absolutely nothing to do with the 2012 draft. But I get it, you wanted to draft other players. I suggest you work hard, make a billion dollars, buy your own team, and draft the players you want with your super genius NFL player assessment skills (like reading draft websites).


I don't agree with the premise of the thread, and I have not read every post, but I have to disagree with bolded, above, and with a couple of other things I picked up on.

With respect to the bolded comment, you can bet your butt that Haslam will consider everything he can think of -- including every draft -- probably using the experience and knowledge he gained as a minority owner of PIT.

Second, there seem to be more than a few people commenting favorably on and expressing support for H&H based Haslam's belief in "building through the draft". The PIT way probably as much or more than any team's is BPA.

That's not how Weeden was picked. The vast majority opinion is that Weeden was a reach...not BPA.

The "why" Weeden was picked is important, too. After the season, Holmgren was stunned by Lerner's disappointment with the progress of the "rebuild". All of a sudden Holmgren decided to be available to the media, prognosticated that the team would do better than 6 wins, and "reached" for Weeden, saying he was ""He's as prepared to come in and start as any rookie I've seen in a long time."

The other H & the S just nodded and agreed that Weeden is "the guy".

H&H&S are "all in" on Weeden.

If the team fails this year in large part due to the fact that he fails, could be that all three of their heads will roll, in part because of the last draft.


You don't know how teams ranked the players in the draft. There's a very good chance that the Browns did have Weeden as the BPA. Didn't they actually talk about that in a press conference? I thought they said they had him as a top 15-20 player in the draft. I could be thinking of another player but I'm pretty sure that's what H&H said about Weeden.

It's stupid to judge a draft class after one season. There's plenty of players who look like complete disappointments after one or two seasons but then they finally start to play well. Plus, it's not like Heckert has a bad track record at drafting so far. As of right now, his first two drafts look like pretty good ones.

If the players drafted in 2012 struggle this year and Haslam fires H&H over it... it would be an incredibly stupid and rash decision. If H&H are let go, I really doubt it would be because of the 2012 draft, especially if some of this year's rookies play well. If H&H are fired, it's because Haslam wanted to bring in his own guys such as Joe Banner.


As I said earlier, the 2012 draft will be one factor, and the Weeden pick will be a big part of it.

The fact -- if it is -- that H&H&S had Weeden ranked that high will make it a damning factor.

Bad judgment.


Give it up we know you hate HHS just to hate HHS. We didn't have a QB last year and needed one so we picked Weeden. Vick played just as bad yet no one cares.

Understand the game of football first then comment second.

You seem like one of those posters who posts just to be negative and I am sick of it. We lost. It is 1 game move on and if you can't then I am sorry you are a miserable person.
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bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 6900
Location: Rocky River, OH
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
bruceb wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
bruceb wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
If that is the case, bruce, then Haslam's career as NFL owner is going to start off as a failure. Evaluating a draft after one year is tantamount to cashing out your 401K at age 35. It's beyond stupid, and it will cost you.


That's the case, Ditch. I wouldn't want people on my team who make those kinds of decisions for those kinds of reasons. I am certain Haslam won't, either. He will get better people.


Except you don't know if anything you think about the situation is actually true or not.

Considering your track record for conspiracy theories and made-up gobbledy-gook, I'd bet my next year's salary that it's not the case.

If you are privy to the goings-on of the War Room on draft day, by all means, let us know. Otherwise, your opinions are just that: opinions.

Belief in an opinion does not make it fact.


As valid as yours.

Not the first time we have disagreed.

Fortunately, the near future will prove one of us right and one of us not.


I didn't invalidate your opinion, just questioned your use of it as a fact.

And you're right about that, we'll see soon enough.

Except I'll actually be happy if Weeden is successful.


I would be happy for that, too, although as I have consistently said I don't see it.

Didn't today, for sure.
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