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Cardinals vs. Chiefs GAME DAY THREAD!! WOOT!!!
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JustPlainNasty


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
KC_Guy wrote:

What most of us want to see from him is make some completions under pressure

WRONG - I don't want to see any pressure on the QB - especially not so he can prove how gutsy he is.



So basically, you are counting on a clean pocket and wide open receivers all year long. Do you have any idea how unrealistic that is? Of course we WANT open receivers and no pressure on the QB, but this is the NFL and you don't win anything without doing damage against pressure/coverage.

I was under the impression that Cassel needed to prove himself to most of you...I had no idea that was simply play one good quarter under circumstances similar to 2010, while the backups play under less glorious circumstances and look the worst for it.

Notice I said "I want to see our QB make some completions when he's under pressure" and you turned that into "I want to see pressure on our QB"...are we trying to see how childish we can get? For all those who are either naive or just wanting to argue, we don't want pressure on our QB or covered receivers, but we should want to see him do well when those tougher circumstances do occur before we crown him the best of the three.


Just a visitor here checking to see how Poe fared..
Couldn't help but notice how ridiculous KC_guy's post was..almost laughable..it wouldn't be so bad if the opinion was just misguided or wrong but to be so obnoxious about it makes it an easy target for ridicule.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
DT58_lives_on wrote:
If you are going to fault Cassel's ability to make throws because he's with the first team, let's not just ignore the other facts as you are so prone to do with the Cassel or really any debate.

Cassel made all the throws he needed to, only having one incomplete pass. You are right this was with the first team offense. It was also against the first team defense, and a defense that was ranked fairly high last year.



*I did not fault his throws with the first team and in no way was criticizing the way he took advantage of the Cardinals, he made very nice throws/decisions. Just stating that we still need to see him in various other situations and people somehow completely missed the point.

*Regarding 1st team/3rd team offense/defense. Which KC OL, receivers, and RB's did better against their counterparts...the 1st team or the 3rd team? Would Cassel have destroyed the 3rd team D, in your opinion?

*The "naive" comment was for anyone taking my post as "I want our QB to be under pressure" as opposed to "I want to see our QB make some good throws when he's under pressure". It was either naive or simply wanting to argue.

*If Stanzi had started and it had played out the same, it wouldn be ho-hum...It wouldn't convince me he's a legit starter and it wouldn't be surprising either. We've seen Cassel hit the open receivers when the run games going good in 2010. But Cassel has a past and history of not being able to make certain throws/reads, etc.... Stanzi doesn't have that past...we know he can make throws that Cassel can't. But I guess for the non-believers, they need to see him also have an efficient Cassel like performance when the 1st team dominates the defense. If a short, simple performance like that is all it takes to convince you he's as good or better than Cassel, it's a shame we may not see him with the opportunity.

*I'm convinced he can do better than Cassel, I'm just curious to see him against some tough situations with/against the #1's just like I am Cassel to see if he can be a true franchise QB or just simply "better than Cassel". One step at a time though I guess...


Cassel's throw to Dex 20+ yards downfield was more than the game manager stuff we've seen from him before. If you can't agree with that then you are blind from your hate. You should know that I'm right since you know how much I dislike Matt.
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean that it was like a throw that most backup QB's couldn't make?

I remember it did stand out of all his throws. I might have to see it again...I know he was wide open, but he was also led perfectly....so it was quite possibly better than any downfield throw he's ever made.

I guess the question is, do you expect a game manager QB to be able to hit a wide open receiver on the run that far downfield (20 yards?)...I really don't know the answer.
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DT58_lives_on


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rage I would honestly like to see Stanzi and Quinn get some reps in game with the ones. I think this may be the only way we can separate the two as the back-up. As it sits right now, Cassel is the starter and I think that is something we'll all have to deal with. Because of this I think it would benefit our team if say Stanzi started one game in pre-season and Quinn started a different one. Hard part of that is, do you risk putting your starter behind a second/third string line, NO you don't do that which is why unless it's the 4th game, and even then I doubt it. We'll see Cassel witht he ones and flip flop the other two guys. Not to mention the 4th pre-season game usually has as few starters as the first.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
You mean that it was like a throw that most backup QB's couldn't make?

I remember it did stand out of all his throws. I might have to see it again...I know he was wide open, but he was also led perfectly....so it was quite possibly better than any downfield throw he's ever made.

I guess the question is, do you expect a game manager QB to be able to hit a wide open receiver on the run that far downfield (20 yards?)...I really don't know the answer.


Yes, it was a throw that most backups wouldn't/couldn't make. It was one of his best throws as a Chief. He hit the smallest guy perfectly in stride 20 yards downfield, Don't care if Dex was wide open or not it was a great throw.

I think Stanzi will be more impressive with the 2's next week than Quinn was this week.
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DT58_lives_on


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other thing about Cassel's throw to Dex was McCluster was open, but far from wide open. Cassel put the ball in the only place he could to have a completion. Over the top of a defender and leading him out. Had he under-thrown him like we saw all to often last year, he would have thrown a INT.

I'm not ready to forgive all of Cassel's faults by any means, but I can be excited that without a doubt that is as good as we've seen Cassel look. And it gives me hope for the season. Until Cassel shows he can win in the playoffs, and maybe even then, I think our first round pick needs to be a QBOTF, even if that means trading up.

Maybe Stanzi is the next Tom Brady, or maybe (and more likely) he is the next Matt Hasselbeck or Mark Brunell, meaning a guy that needs a shot to start somewhere to see what they can become. Or maybe he is just what he is, a decent (hopefully) back-up. The thing about Brady/Brunell and Hasselbeck is that they all got a shot, but not because some team thought, well our QB is ok, but we should really play this young guy. You don't just scrap a starter to play a young guy for the sake of playing him. If Cassel falters then yeah, people will undoubtedly be calling for his head. But if he keeps winning, even in a game manager role, he isn't going anywhere for a 5th round hopefull or a journey man first rounder that just can't seem to get it done.
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OILCHIEFS


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT58_lives_on wrote:
The other thing about Cassel's throw to Dex was McCluster was open, but far from wide open. Cassel put the ball in the only place he could to have a completion. Over the top of a defender and leading him out. Had he under-thrown him like we saw all to often last year, he would have thrown a INT.

I'm not ready to forgive all of Cassel's faults by any means, but I can be excited that without a doubt that is as good as we've seen Cassel look. And it gives me hope for the season. Until Cassel shows he can win in the playoffs, and maybe even then, I think our first round pick needs to be a QBOTF, even if that means trading up.

Maybe Stanzi is the next Tom Brady, or maybe (and more likely) he is the next Matt Hasselbeck or Mark Brunell, meaning a guy that needs a shot to start somewhere to see what they can become. Or maybe he is just what he is, a decent (hopefully) back-up. The thing about Brady/Brunell and Hasselbeck is that they all got a shot, but not because some team thought, well our QB is ok, but we should really play this young guy. You don't just scrap a starter to play a young guy for the sake of playing him. If Cassel falters then yeah, people will undoubtedly be calling for his head. But if he keeps winning, even in a game manager role, he isn't going anywhere for a 5th round hopefull or a journey man first rounder that just can't seem to get it done.



+1


Great post DT. Very well said. I also think this is a good year to draft a QB. Lots of good prospects!
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I'm with ya...lets see what Cassel can do. He can have a fresh start, I just wish it was a real competition and if he wins the job that's fine and we know we're fielding our best team.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustPlainNasty wrote:

Just a visitor here checking to see how Poe fared.. .

I thought Poe fared well, my expectations were extremely slow since he came outta Memphis and was very raw but he showed good promise. First three plays he was involved in read:

1st: Sack(didnt sack but came close)
2nd: Batted pass
3rd: Interception

Coincidence? Maybe, but maybe not.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW the game will be re-aired on NFL network at 3 today.
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