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the Dt issue

 
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sp6488


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 8430
Location: MD
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:24 pm    Post subject: the Dt issue Reply with quote

Hey, i was thinking about the ravens biggest holes and i decided that a run stuffing DT is not one of them. Think about it, Dwan and Kemo are both known as runstoppers. These 2 and Franklin are all very big (315, 335, and 320). Also, we were attempting a trade for Simon who is in no way a run stuffer, but more of a penetrator. I think the FO doesnt see this as a problem and wants another DT who can rush the passer on passing downs. I just thought this was interesting seeing how everyone, including myself, believes that we need a bigboy up front to take blockers. I think we are set with Gregg, Kemo, Franklin, and Edwards DTs, i just think we need a quick penetrator like Babineaux or another rush kind of guy.
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RavensFan20


Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 45
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what do u guys think of erasmus james. just imagine him and suggs on the same dline. and james would also allow us to use suggs as a LB at times as well and still have a pass rusher
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sp6488


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im a little worried about his injuries
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raven5255


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i completly agree that a DT is not that big of a need. See my post under "Ravens current needs" for my opinion on our DT situatuion.

As for James, i like him but not nearly as much as i like Pollack. Like sp6488 said, he injuries are a little concerning and i just dont have a good feeling about him.
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mic79e


Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 885
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: the Dt issue Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
Hey, i was thinking about the ravens biggest holes and i decided that a run stuffing DT is not one of them. Think about it, Dwan and Kemo are both known as runstoppers. These 2 and Franklin are all very big (315, 335, and 320). Also, we were attempting a trade for Simon who is in no way a run stuffer, but more of a penetrator. I think the FO doesnt see this as a problem and wants another DT who can rush the passer on passing downs. I just thought this was interesting seeing how everyone, including myself, believes that we need a bigboy up front to take blockers. I think we are set with Gregg, Kemo, Franklin, and Edwards DTs, i just think we need a quick penetrator like Babineaux or another rush kind of guy.


I agree with your point about the front office going after Simon, who is primarily a pass rusher.

But two of those guys you mentioned (Dwan Edwards and Aubrayo Franklin) have shown nothing on the field in the NFL. It's not just about size, they need to be able to contribute and penetrate to stop the run. I'm not saying that they won't pan out, but it is better to be realistic. They are not known commodities in the NFL.

The last two years we have lost big games where we couldn't stop the run (Chiefs - Monday Night, and Titans - last playoff appearance), this is a problem that is yet to be fixed.
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mcdni


Joined: 12 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Ozzie is reportedly interested in Travis Johnson. I think that lets us know that he wants someone who can penetrate from DT as Johnson is only in the 290 range and can't be classified as a big run stuffer. He has similar qualities to Simon. If he falls past the Bengals there is even rumours Oz might trade up to make sure he gets him.
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Swedishraven


Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 304
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But two of those guys you mentioned (Dwan Edwards and Aubrayo Franklin) have shown nothing on the field in the NFL. It's not just about size, they need to be able to contribute and penetrate to stop the run. I'm not saying that they won't pan out, but it is better to be realistic. They are not known commodities in the NFL.


There's not much available at the DT spot in FA so we haven't got much choice but to trust the ones we have. Dwan and Aubrayo have trained with the team for a long time and are much more proven than any draft pick. Yes, we have struggled to stop the run against the top O-lines, but the reason for that was that our D-line was undersized for the 3-4 (Gregg is small for a NT and Douglas small for a 3-4 end). Still we managed to allow only 3.6 yards/carry which puts us near the top of the league. Having two big DTs playing next to eachother will help alot. And we're not undersized for the 4-3, with the exception of Suggs they all have above average size for their positions. If anything we lack an interior pass rush but i think Gregg will surprise a lot of people in this area.
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mic79e


Joined: 12 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that Gregg will surprise people in the 4-3, the guy is a player pure and simple.

I've never said that we're undersized at DT. But those big guys that we have aren't proven starters. Just having some big guys is not enough. A few seasons back we had several receivers with very good size (Travis Taylor, Ron Johnson, Randy Hymes) but it's not that simple, at any position.

Our average yards allowed per carry isn't a problem, but those two games were crucial games, and cost us big, you can't afford to ignore that.

Your right that there isn't much that we can do about it, and I don't think we should draft a DT with size if he doesn't have the talent as well. At this stage it might be a matter of waiting till next year and hoping for the best, but I just think it is silly to say that because we've got some unproven guys on the roster (Edwards and Franklin) that there is no problem at all. I hope these guys do develop, and they might, but make no mistake that is what we are relying upon with only one proven starter.
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mic79e


Joined: 12 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcdni wrote:
Well Ozzie is reportedly interested in Travis Johnson. I think that lets us know that he wants someone who can penetrate from DT as Johnson is only in the 290 range and can't be classified as a big run stuffer.


He isn't big a run stuffer, but he is an all-around DT who uses his hands quickly to disengage, and can penetrate to disrupt the run. I think he made around 17 tackles for a loss.
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Swedishraven


Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 304
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point is that our defensive line has a lot of potential and we wont find much help for them in this draft. Gregg is proven and Kemo is rather experienced and has improved every year. The others need to step up but our defensive line has been effective. Of course it would be nice to improve the D-line but if we could get the offense to be decent we would have won those two games. We lost both those games by 3 points... We have bigger problems than DT
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sp6488


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats what im trying to get at. Our Dline may be young and unproven, but whats the point of trying to draft another young unproven runstuffer in this draft? Wed be better served to address other positions early in the draft.
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mic79e


Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 885
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
Our Dline may be young and unproven, but whats the point of trying to draft another young unproven runstuffer in this draft?


I never said we should.

mic79e wrote:
there isn't much that we can do about it, and I don't think we should draft a DT with size if he doesn't have the talent as well. At this stage it might be a matter of waiting till next year and hoping for the best, but I just think it is silly to say that because we've got some unproven guys on the roster (Edwards and Franklin) that there is no problem at all.


Once again,

mic79e wrote:
I hope these guys do develop, and they might, but make no mistake that is what we are relying upon with only one proven starter.
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