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SUG
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: Alameda, Ca
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 Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| FOOTBALLFAN08 wrote: | | Quote: | BM is who he is & if you simply want to live in denial about that & the damage he causes on &
off the field then you are free to do so. |
Let me clarify first, I hated the signing due to the issues in Denver. What issues were in MIA ?
| Quote: | It doesn't matter to me how talented a player is, if he has been & will continue to be a problem in
the locker rm & off the field he has to go. |
Which report says that he was a problem in the locker room here in MIA ?
| Quote: | I for one choose to give Philbin the benefit of the doubt in that:
he can take multiple 2nd & 3rd rnd WRs & cultivate talent for the long haul & create a shooting gallery which
is much more difficult to defend than 1 guy injured - in jail - fighting with my #1 draft pk - suspended or
eventually banned/dead. |
We gave two second round picks for his issues. We got production and a relatively quiet stint. There was an incident in NY, but that was proven to be nothing more than exaggerated in terms of his actual involvement. We then got 2 third round picks for that WR. That's not good and never will be a good trade. You dont develop top 10 WR talent in the 3rd round.
| Code: | I can't tell you just how good it makes me feel to have said from day 1 that BMs departure would
be a tumultuous one.
And just how sincerely I feel about acquiring Two 3rd rnd pks when I expected NONE!
Buh Bye
sug |
As I have stated, I hated the signing, but once he was here and stayed out of trouble, there was no way I wanted us to trade him for 2 thirds with what we currently have on the roster. It was a terrible deal, on TWO fronts.
Not only did we pay too much, we then got too little. It sucked. |
I agree with the statement.
You are correct but to actually complain about the deal "on the way out" is silly.
As if we didn't already know how this would end ...
As if we actually thought 1 Diva was gonna be the ticket to the Playoffs ...
Several of us expected he would be suspended or embroiled in some really serious courtroom legal drama.
And the Nightclub aside ... his wife stabbed him in Mia.
sug
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Judson49
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 528
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:19 am Post subject: |
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When the Dolphins traded for Marshall I have to admit to being kind of shocked. He didn't seem to fit with the Parcells/Ireland ethos, and had clearly been available for some time to whoever wanted to take the risk.
A 25(?) year old top tier talent scaring off all suitors with his personal baggage speaks volumes to me.
As for his "behaviour" and "conduct as a team mate" in Miami, I dont think he excelled. He had petulant tiffs with Henne, he didn't really support Matt Moore either. (But I also believe the media digs relentlessly for opportunities to concoct stories based around these so called Diva WR's not being on the same page as their QB). He also managed to get stabbed by his wife, which many can gloss over, but it doesn't happen to everybody!! On the field he dropped passes/TD's, didn't live up to the price tag, didn't live up to his own expectations I'd say.
But the thing is, he's still an extremely good WR, one of the top in the league. He's worth more than two 3rd round picks, and I kinda couldn't care less bout his troubled life. I dont need the Dolphins to be a roster of role models, talent is what I'm after first and foremost. I dont want them to be the most morally correct 2-14 team in NFL history. |
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Miami2DaMax
Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 775
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| I must have missed something...Since when was Chad a problem in the locker room? I thought he was mostly a HUGE show off, not really causing problems? |
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12329
Location: the 50 yard line
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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CJ is no more of a headache than the vast majority of top end WR's. Same with Brandon Marshall. Even guys like Jerry Rice were said to be divas by some of their teammates. Its part and parcel with the position. Most of these guys have been stars since they were in junior high playing ball. They've been treated differently and gotten special treatment. To expect something different is to display large amounts of naivete.
CJ once punched Marvin Lewis. He also is an attention whore who never met a camera he didn't like. Brandon Marshall is reported to be one of the nicest guys in the NFL. He also has a flip side, which goes hand in hand with his Borderline Personality Disorder diagnosis. Whatever the case, Marshall did a lot with [inappropriate/removed]-poor QB play, stayed out of trouble for the most part and performed at a probowl level despite no offensive talent around him. He will, undoubtedly flourish in Chicago with Cutler throwing to him. For all the talk of him being a bad teammate, clearly Jay Cutler had no problem with him coming to Chicago.
Its such a stupid argument. Marshall is so much better than any player we have in our WR corps and probably better than any single player we have on the offensive side of the ball not named Jake Long, and probably better than any WR we will have on the team in the next 10 years.
The pursuit of CJ only confirms what idiots Miami is/was in letting go of Marshall. CJ is no better or worse of a person than Marshall. Both want the ball, and both are Divas. The primary difference is that Marshall is 10 times the talent CJ is currently. Marshall is playing at a Probowl level and CJ will be lucky to make any NFL roster. Both bring the same "problems", which shouldn't be problems at all.
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Maddogg
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 1120
Location: A Galaxy Far Far Away......
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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Do you think that either Marshall or Johnson can be productive in a West Coast Offense? Why I am asking is because I always thought that successful receivers in a Bill Walsh WCO need to be:
1) Intelligent
2) Able to read the defense and run the correct route for the defense present
3) Be able to quickly create separation with the defender.
4) Have no fear of going over the middle
5) Consistently catch throws that are targeted to them.
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Dolphinemidget
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 3241
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Mercury22 wrote: | CJ is no more of a headache than the vast majority of top end WR's. Same with Brandon Marshall. Even guys like Jerry Rice were said to be divas by some of their teammates. Its part and parcel with the position. Most of these guys have been stars since they were in junior high playing ball. They've been treated differently and gotten special treatment. To expect something different is to display large amounts of naivete.
CJ once punched Marvin Lewis. He also is an attention whore who never met a camera he didn't like. Brandon Marshall is reported to be one of the nicest guys in the NFL. He also has a flip side, which goes hand in hand with his Borderline Personality Disorder diagnosis. Whatever the case, Marshall did a lot with [inappropriate/removed]-poor QB play, stayed out of trouble for the most part and performed at a probowl level despite no offensive talent around him. He will, undoubtedly flourish in Chicago with Cutler throwing to him. For all the talk of him being a bad teammate, clearly Jay Cutler had no problem with him coming to Chicago.
Its such a stupid argument. Marshall is so much better than any player we have in our WR corps and probably better than any single player we have on the offensive side of the ball not named Jake Long, and probably better than any WR we will have on the team in the next 10 years.
The pursuit of CJ only confirms what idiots Miami is/was in letting go of Marshall. CJ is no better or worse of a person than Marshall. Both want the ball, and both are Divas. The primary difference is that Marshall is 10 times the talent CJ is currently. Marshall is playing at a Probowl level and CJ will be lucky to make any NFL roster. Both bring the same "problems", which shouldn't be problems at all. |
Very nicely put Merc, I hate the thought of Chad being here, I would so much of rather kept BM, and for those saying move on, its only been a few months, people in here still talk about Ted Ginn and what he brought to the team or didnt bring to the team, so I can roast on BM until the end of the season (atleast)
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bpastermack
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 12069
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Dolphinemidget wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | CJ is no more of a headache than the vast majority of top end WR's. Same with Brandon Marshall. Even guys like Jerry Rice were said to be divas by some of their teammates. Its part and parcel with the position. Most of these guys have been stars since they were in junior high playing ball. They've been treated differently and gotten special treatment. To expect something different is to display large amounts of naivete.
CJ once punched Marvin Lewis. He also is an attention whore who never met a camera he didn't like. Brandon Marshall is reported to be one of the nicest guys in the NFL. He also has a flip side, which goes hand in hand with his Borderline Personality Disorder diagnosis. Whatever the case, Marshall did a lot with [inappropriate/removed]-poor QB play, stayed out of trouble for the most part and performed at a probowl level despite no offensive talent around him. He will, undoubtedly flourish in Chicago with Cutler throwing to him. For all the talk of him being a bad teammate, clearly Jay Cutler had no problem with him coming to Chicago.
Its such a stupid argument. Marshall is so much better than any player we have in our WR corps and probably better than any single player we have on the offensive side of the ball not named Jake Long, and probably better than any WR we will have on the team in the next 10 years.
The pursuit of CJ only confirms what idiots Miami is/was in letting go of Marshall. CJ is no better or worse of a person than Marshall. Both want the ball, and both are Divas. The primary difference is that Marshall is 10 times the talent CJ is currently. Marshall is playing at a Probowl level and CJ will be lucky to make any NFL roster. Both bring the same "problems", which shouldn't be problems at all. |
Very nicely put Merc, I hate the thought of Chad being here, I would so much of rather kept BM, and for those saying move on, its only been a few months, people in here still talk about Ted Ginn and what he brought to the team or didnt bring to the team, so I can roast on BM until the end of the season (atleast) |
Some major differences between these guys...
1. Marshall is much more talented at this point in his career. I'll give you that.
2. Marshall cost over 10 times as much! And almost none of what they are paying CJ is guaranteed unless he makes the roster.
3. Marshall is known as a hot tempered and selfish player. I'm not saying he doesn't have his "go team" moments, but he makes no bones about the fact that he wants the ball early and often, and he wants a super star throwing it to him. In my opinion that is the single biggest reason he was a bad fit for our offense. CJ is a loud mouth fun loving guy, but not really the selfish type. He has never asked for the ball more. He just enjoys the limelight, and has fun with it.
IKn the end it doesn't really matter cause I don't think you can compare the two. CJ is just like any other receiver on this roster trying to earn a roster spot. I wouldn't be surprised to see a guy like Pruitt or Wallace grab the starting gig and run with it over CJ.
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12329
Location: the 50 yard line
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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bpastermack, you aren't really going to stick with the claim that CJ has never asked for the ball more, are you. Especially, when I have tape of CJ asking Marvin Lewis to make sure he gets the ball more. Or I have no doubt, whatsoever, there is footage of CJ grilling Carson Palmer on the sidelines to please see that he is open. I really do have that footage. Plus it used to run as one of the main highlight clips on NFL network promoting the station.
Here are the main differences between CJ and BM. Brandon Marshall is pro bowl wideout who has made the probowl with some of the worst talent in the NFL throwing to him. OchoCinco is a guy that couldn't see starting time on a roster with one of the games greatest all time QB's throwing the ball. Marshall may make ten times Ocho, but the difference is that Brandon Marshall is worthy of his salary and CJ probably isn't, which is why he took league minimum with incentives and wanted to go to the worst WRing roster in the NFL.
Every single WR in the entire league wants the ball thrown to them more. If they didn't they wouldn't be in the NFL. All are vocal about wanting the ball more, some are simply more vocal than others. I can't believe my fellow fans would be so naive as to believe that every player that hasn't made it thinks the coaches are simply missing something, and that every WR believes they deserve the ball more and were open on the last play. Its part and parcel to the position.
Marshall was not cut cause he wasn't good enough. He wasn't cut because he couldn't flourish in the system. He wasn't cut because he is a loud mouth. He wasn't cut because he has "off the field issues". He was cut because we had cap problems and this new regime seems to believe that WR's are replacable and their system creates the players, not that the players make the system look good. Its hubris and its not going to work with this class of WR's. If they prove me wrong and make Hartline and Bess look Jennings and Nelson, then I'll eat a pair of cleats.
Lets stop with the Marshall is a problem child crap. There's no merit to it anymore. The proof isn't there. He served us well, and did his part while in Miami . He wants the ball, but that makes him just like every other skilled position player in the league, including Chad Johnson.
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MarshallsLaw15
Joined: 04 May 2010
Posts: 106
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:28 am Post subject: |
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The only thing I have to say regarding Brandon was that you could tell he had little to no interest in being in Miami. He has some sort of affair going on with Cutler and Miami granted his wish by allowing them to be teammates once again. Only time will tell where this puts Miami and if it is true that there will be "No number one receiver in our system." The way I look at it what do we have to lose signing Chad Johnson. The guy had his most unproductive football year that he has had in a long time and how many times did you hear him complaining about it? Brandon through our QB's under the bus and on a football team where is there room for that? But then again today at mini camp there were two fights so who really knows anymore.
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Adopt-A-Dolphin #15 WR Davone Bess
51 Receptions 537 Yards 10.5 Av. 3Tds 41 Long |
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12329
Location: the 50 yard line
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| MarshallsLaw15 wrote: | | The only thing I have to say regarding Brandon was that you could tell he had little to no interest in being in Miami. He has some sort of affair going on with Cutler and Miami granted his wish by allowing them to be teammates once again. Only time will tell where this puts Miami and if it is true that there will be "No number one receiver in our system." The way I look at it what do we have to lose signing Chad Johnson. The guy had his most unproductive football year that he has had in a long time and how many times did you hear him complaining about it? Brandon through our QB's under the bus and on a football team where is there room for that? But then again today at mini camp there were two fights so who really knows anymore. |
I'd love to hear how Marshall threw the Miami QB(s) under the bus. I've seen people suggest that he has, but I'd love to hear the quote.
As for Marshall not wanting to be in Miami, I don't doubt those reports. However, players say that want a trade nearly every day in the press, but they aren't always allowed to go. There are certainly others that don't make their wishes to be traded public, and many of them are not traded. Point being, a team doesn't have to grant a request of a player under contract. Percy Harvin just asked to be traded. I'm gonna bet big money he stays put in Minnesota.
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Maddogg
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 1120
Location: A Galaxy Far Far Away......
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Brandon Marshall quotes :
1) After being traded to Chicago on 740 The Game Quote:
"Also, if you don't have a quarterback, it doesn't matter who you have out there. You can bring Jerry Rice back, in his prime, and he's not going to be effective."
2) While Matt Flynn was a free agent and Marshall was openly talking to recruit Flynn. Quote:
"We need someone who is going to grab a hold of our offense, hold everyone accountable and be that leader.”
I don't know if its being thrown under a bus but in those two quotes he basically says Matt Moore is not a quarterback and a leader of the offense.
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12329
Location: the 50 yard line
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Maddogg wrote: | Brandon Marshall quotes :
1) After being traded to Chicago on 740 The Game Quote:
"Also, if you don't have a quarterback, it doesn't matter who you have out there. You can bring Jerry Rice back, in his prime, and he's not going to be effective."
2) While Matt Flynn was a free agent and Marshall was openly talking to recruit Flynn. Quote:
"We need someone who is going to grab a hold of our offense, hold everyone accountable and be that leader.”
I don't know if its being thrown under a bus but in those two quotes he basically says Matt Moore is not a quarterback and a leader of the offense. |
Your first example is, by your own admission, after he left the Dolphins. He is no longer teammates with anyone on the Dolphins. I see it as no big deal at all.
The second quote is hardly throwing Matt Moore under the bus. He is asking for a leader, the assumption by the fans is that the QB has to be the leader, but in no way did Marshall say that. If you believe it was implied, so be it.
If you took either of these quotes and applied them to Brian Hartline, I'm betting no one make a peep about them. Those are quotes that throw the QB under the bus, a quote from TO about Jeff Garcia or Donovan McNabb is an example of a WR throwing their QB under the bus. These are innocuous, unless you want to believe otherwise. IMHO, moutain out of a molehill.
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ovaw8lover
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 8666
Location: Dolphins Stadium
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Clearly I will fall in the minority on the Brandon Marshall deal. BM felt he was wasting away in Miami. And I agree with him. He wanted to go to a team that could win. He is friends with J. Cutler, so the deal made sense to me. But if Miami is trying to build its team in the offensive image of Green Bay, they never had a Brandon Marshall type. But I also do not by that crap about a west coast receiver being quick, able to catch every ball and get yards after catch. Because clearly TO defies all that logic.
Bottomline, Miami and BM parted mutually. I have no problem with that because BM's personality could ruin a young QB.
The only problem I have with Miami is they should have not resigned Solai. Solai was a luxury signing. There is nothing that says you have to be 99% of the cap. They could have just let him resign somewhere else but I digress.
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JCool333
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 12679
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ovaw8lover wrote: | Clearly I will fall in the minority on the Brandon Marshall deal. BM felt he was wasting away in Miami. And I agree with him. He wanted to go to a team that could win. He is friends with J. Cutler, so the deal made sense to me. But if Miami is trying to build its team in the offensive image of Green Bay, they never had a Brandon Marshall type. But I also do not by that crap about a west coast receiver being quick, able to catch every ball and get yards after catch. Because clearly TO defies all that logic.
Bottomline, Miami and BM parted mutually. I have no problem with that because BM's personality could ruin a young QB. |
Agreed fully on both accounts.
I am still upset about the Marshall trade because I think our team would look a lot stronger with a guy like him on the roster. But, when Tannehill starts playing, he won't be a good guy to have around, honestly. Neither will Ochocinco.
What I will say is that Marshall was also far more expensive than Ochocinco. I can understand why one is upset about losing Marshall. I am too, but Ochocinco is not the same situation, even if he does cause headaches, too. Ochocinco comes in with no guaranteed paycheck until he proves himself and makes the final cut, while Marshall was paid far more and had the right, as a veteran Fin, to demand more as a player if he had stayed. Ochocinco comes on as a competitor for a job, who has no right to demand anything. This is a totally incomparable situation. |
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GBPackers79
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 19241
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Chad Ochocinco @ochocinco
@nflcommish Dad... I love u but I will be a problem this year.. all fine money this year can be collected from @MiamiDolphins #management |
That can't be good to read for you guys..?
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packerbacker87 on the sig | Arodsmightybelt wrote: | | Sam Barrington, whose dat? he a championship? |
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