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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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 Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| bigben07MVP wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: | | bigben07MVP wrote: | | I just hope this doesn't mean less playing time for our young guys like Sly, Spence, and Worilds. |
Sly and Worlids have had 2 years. and will have chances this year. Neither have shown anything that shows we can rely on them, so adding depth like this only helps....either to push them harder or give us someone who can actually contribute more to this team. |
It doesn't help that he's been playing behind the best 3-4 outside linebacker tandem in the league for two years. Yes he's had opportunities due to injuries but I won't give up on him until he has a chance to consistently be in the starting lineup for a few weeks. He has shown impressive speed coming off the edge, he just needs to learn a few more pass rush moves and I think he can put it all together.
I was mainly talking about Spence because I really want to see him on the field this year. It's probably a good thing though since Spence needs to spend a lot of time in the weight room this year before he can really make an impact.
I'm not ready to give up on Sly yet either. He's been impressive on special teams which for a young linebacker is usually a good indicator that he will perform when playing defense and he hasn't really had much of an opportunity to do that yet. |
I agree with you about Worilds, not Sylvester though. I think Worilds can be a starter when Harrison retires in a few years, he's got that kind of talent. I don't have the feeling about Slyvester, I think he's strictly a special teams player.
I'm actually thinking that because of his height, Brandon Johnson is a better fit at olb than ilb though. This could spell the end for Carter unless he really proves something. Either way though I don't think Worilds is in trouble with this signing (like you) I think Sylester or possibly even Carter is.
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 mike23md
Days until:Training camp 38; Preseason opener @ Titans 52; Monday night vs. Eagles 85 RIP SSF |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| turtle28 wrote: | | bigben07MVP wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: | | bigben07MVP wrote: | | I just hope this doesn't mean less playing time for our young guys like Sly, Spence, and Worilds. |
Sly and Worlids have had 2 years. and will have chances this year. Neither have shown anything that shows we can rely on them, so adding depth like this only helps....either to push them harder or give us someone who can actually contribute more to this team. |
It doesn't help that he's been playing behind the best 3-4 outside linebacker tandem in the league for two years. Yes he's had opportunities due to injuries but I won't give up on him until he has a chance to consistently be in the starting lineup for a few weeks. He has shown impressive speed coming off the edge, he just needs to learn a few more pass rush moves and I think he can put it all together.
I was mainly talking about Spence because I really want to see him on the field this year. It's probably a good thing though since Spence needs to spend a lot of time in the weight room this year before he can really make an impact.
I'm not ready to give up on Sly yet either. He's been impressive on special teams which for a young linebacker is usually a good indicator that he will perform when playing defense and he hasn't really had much of an opportunity to do that yet. |
I agree with you about Worilds, not Sylvester though. I think Worilds can be a starter when Harrison retires in a few years, he's got that kind of talent. I don't have the feeling about Slyvester, I think he's strictly a special teams player.
I'm actually thinking that because of his height, Brandon Johnson is a better fit at olb than ilb though. This could spell the end for Carter unless he really proves something. Either way though I don't think Worilds is in trouble with this signing (like you) I think Sylester or possibly even Carter is. |
Not knocking your opinion of Worlids, but Im just wandering where you ever saw him play anything close to a starting caliber NFL player?
Are you basing this off his talent in college?
In the time he has been here, he has shown very few flashes. He has a great first step and thats something, but he has had issues getting off of blcoks, especially in the running game., and most of his pressure comes when he is able to run around blocks.
Again...not saying he cant or wont improve....just curious as to what you have seen that makes you think he can be a starter.
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at23steelers
Joined: 05 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Honestly, Worilds hasn't shown much more than Sly. I honestly think we'll keep Chris Carter and Worilds. I wouldn't doubt us carrying 9 LB's this year. |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| at23steelers wrote: | | Honestly, Worilds hasn't shown much more than Sly. I honestly think we'll keep Chris Carter and Worilds. I wouldn't doubt us carrying 9 LB's this year. |
Agreed....neither have shown much of anything...at least in terms of progressing to consistent contributors.
Sly is decent in coverage and Worlids is a decent pass rusher. And thats about it.
Tomlin is supposedly high on Worlids.
Butler is supposedly high on Sylvester.
Methinks these guys are just being cautiously optimistic, or maybe just being nice with their opinions to the media. Neither are going to come out and trash their players.
But I do think that Worlids lasts longer than Sylvester at this point...mainly because Sylvester has looked god awful in the chances he has had thus far. And this is coming from someone who really liked Sylvester his rookie year.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
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at23steelers
Joined: 05 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: | | at23steelers wrote: | | Honestly, Worilds hasn't shown much more than Sly. I honestly think we'll keep Chris Carter and Worilds. I wouldn't doubt us carrying 9 LB's this year. |
Agreed....neither have shown much of anything...at least in terms of progressing to consistent contributors.
Sly is decent in coverage and Worlids is a decent pass rusher. And thats about it.
Tomlin is supposedly high on Worlids.
Butler is supposedly high on Sylvester.
Methinks these guys are just being cautiously optimistic, or maybe just being nice with their opinions to the media. Neither are going to come out and trash their players.
But I do think that Worlids lasts longer than Sylvester at this point...mainly because Sylvester has looked god awful in the chances he has had thus far. And this is coming from someone who really liked Sylvester his rookie year. |
Based on the player I'd agree with you. However, based on depth of ILB vs. OLB I say Sly would stay longer between then two. |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| at23steelers wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: | | at23steelers wrote: | | Honestly, Worilds hasn't shown much more than Sly. I honestly think we'll keep Chris Carter and Worilds. I wouldn't doubt us carrying 9 LB's this year. |
Agreed....neither have shown much of anything...at least in terms of progressing to consistent contributors.
Sly is decent in coverage and Worlids is a decent pass rusher. And thats about it.
Tomlin is supposedly high on Worlids.
Butler is supposedly high on Sylvester.
Methinks these guys are just being cautiously optimistic, or maybe just being nice with their opinions to the media. Neither are going to come out and trash their players.
But I do think that Worlids lasts longer than Sylvester at this point...mainly because Sylvester has looked god awful in the chances he has had thus far. And this is coming from someone who really liked Sylvester his rookie year. |
Based on the player I'd agree with you. However, based on depth of ILB vs. OLB I say Sly would stay longer between then two. |
Steelers will keep the better player. They arent going to keep an inferior player unless it has to do with roster requrements.
And we have just as much (or little) depth at OLB as we do at ILB.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: |
Not knocking your opinion of Worlids, but Im just wandering where you ever saw him play anything close to a starting caliber NFL player?
Are you basing this off his talent in college?
In the time he has been here, he has shown very few flashes. He has a great first step and thats something, but he has had issues getting off of blcoks, especially in the running game., and most of his pressure comes when he is able to run around blocks.
Again...not saying he cant or wont improve....just curious as to what you have seen that makes you think he can be a starter. |
Yeah I get that but when did Harrison display that when he was a back up and being cut from us and the ravens? When did Woodley, Hagans or Porter display that ability before being given the "CHANCE" to be a starter but we won't know if he can or can't till he gets a long term chance and that won't happen till Harrison retires. Until then we can all debate back and forth but none of us will know the answer till Harrison is gone. I like staying optimistic about young talent until its clear they don't have it and to me it's not clear on Worilds at this moment.
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mike23md
Days until:Training camp 38; Preseason opener @ Titans 52; Monday night vs. Eagles 85 RIP SSF |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| turtle28 wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: |
Not knocking your opinion of Worlids, but Im just wandering where you ever saw him play anything close to a starting caliber NFL player?
Are you basing this off his talent in college?
In the time he has been here, he has shown very few flashes. He has a great first step and thats something, but he has had issues getting off of blcoks, especially in the running game., and most of his pressure comes when he is able to run around blocks.
Again...not saying he cant or wont improve....just curious as to what you have seen that makes you think he can be a starter. |
Yeah I get that but when did Harrison display that when he was a back up and being cut from us and the ravens? When did Woodley, Hagans or Porter display that ability before being given the "CHANCE" to be a starter but we won't know if he can or can't till he gets a long term chance and that won't happen till Harrison retires. Until then we can all debate back and forth but none of us will know the answer till Harrison is gone. I like staying optimistic about young talent until its clear they don't have it and to me it's not clear on Worilds at this moment. |
We dont have to wait until Harrison retires to know how good Worlids is. He has got chances during games and during preseason. You dont HAVE to wait until a player actually gets a chance to start to know how good he is. In fact, a player should show enough to warrant that he even gets the opportunity to start, which Worlids has not, and thats my point. Nothing he has shown has said he can be a decent starter in this league.
As far as Harrison, Woodley and them....they all showed enough in limited time that they deserved a strong look at starter. Harrison always had the talent but didnt put it together unitl later. Woodley was a monster in limited time as a rookie which is why they felt good about letting Haggans go. Porter I believe was the same way. Haggans was a good stiautional player his first few years.
Maybe this year, Worlids will show more. Or maybe the coaches already feel he has shown enough. Obviously, Im just a fan, but I PERSONALLY dont think he has earned the right to be considered the incumbent starter. At this point, if we were to lose Harrison after the 2012 season, Id say that OLB would be a top need, because no OLBs behind Harrison and Woodley have shown they DESERVE to be relied upon going into 2013.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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snoopydawg44us
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I like the signing I wanted them to sign him when he first came in for a look. I'm glad a deal got done for Johnson. Like someone mention before if anything he could be our K. Fox. I'm liking the depth now than before this signing. |
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turtle28
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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I'd be down for keeping 9 lbs this year, I think the redskins will do the same. In the 3-4 the lbs are so important, especially one who is versatile as Johnson is.
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mike23md
Days until:Training camp 38; Preseason opener @ Titans 52; Monday night vs. Eagles 85 RIP SSF |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: | | turtle28 wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: |
Not knocking your opinion of Worlids, but Im just wandering where you ever saw him play anything close to a starting caliber NFL player?
Are you basing this off his talent in college?
In the time he has been here, he has shown very few flashes. He has a great first step and thats something, but he has had issues getting off of blcoks, especially in the running game., and most of his pressure comes when he is able to run around blocks.
Again...not saying he cant or wont improve....just curious as to what you have seen that makes you think he can be a starter. |
Yeah I get that but when did Harrison display that when he was a back up and being cut from us and the ravens? When did Woodley, Hagans or Porter display that ability before being given the "CHANCE" to be a starter but we won't know if he can or can't till he gets a long term chance and that won't happen till Harrison retires. Until then we can all debate back and forth but none of us will know the answer till Harrison is gone. I like staying optimistic about young talent until its clear they don't have it and to me it's not clear on Worilds at this moment. |
We dont have to wait until Harrison retires to know how good Worlids is. He has got chances during games and during preseason. You dont HAVE to wait until a player actually gets a chance to start to know how good he is. In fact, a player should show enough to warrant that he even gets the opportunity to start, which Worlids has not, and thats my point. Nothing he has shown has said he can be a decent starter in this league.
As far as Harrison, Woodley and them....they all showed enough in limited time that they deserved a strong look at starter. Harrison always had the talent but didnt put it together unitl later. Woodley was a monster in limited time as a rookie which is why they felt good about letting Haggans go. Porter I believe was the same way. Haggans was a good stiautional player his first few years.
Maybe this year, Worlids will show more. Or maybe the coaches already feel he has shown enough. Obviously, Im just a fan, but I PERSONALLY dont think he has earned the right to be considered the incumbent starter. At this point, if we were to lose Harrison after the 2012 season, Id say that OLB would be a top need, because no OLBs behind Harrison and Woodley have shown they DESERVE to be relied upon going into 2013. |
I totally understand what your saying but it sure hard for him to show what he's got when he's plaing behind two pro bowlers and the best OLB tandem in the nfl. He's clearly a reserve for now and I think his time will come in the next few years. I'd be pretty surprised in we draft an OLB high in the next few years, I think they will give him a year to show what he has as a starter first and depending on that, they will decide whether to upgrade or not.
It's not like he's been atrocious in spot duty, the D and team still play well when he's in and Harrison is out (6-2) and he does supply some pressure. He's had 55 tackles and 5 sacks in two years in only 7 games started. He's shown some promise.
He's developing just fine in my eyes. If he had to start 16 games I can see him having 60 tackles, 8 sacks and 3 FF. The D can certainly remain productive if he gives that kind of production. He and Woodley would likely combine for 125 tackles, and 20 sacks.
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mike23md
Days until:Training camp 38; Preseason opener @ Titans 52; Monday night vs. Eagles 85 RIP SSF |
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bigben07MVP
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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Location: Florida State University
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: | | bigben07MVP wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: | | bigben07MVP wrote: | | I just hope this doesn't mean less playing time for our young guys like Sly, Spence, and Worilds. |
Sly and Worlids have had 2 years. and will have chances this year. Neither have shown anything that shows we can rely on them, so adding depth like this only helps....either to push them harder or give us someone who can actually contribute more to this team. |
It doesn't help that he's been playing behind the best 3-4 outside linebacker tandem in the league for two years. Yes he's had opportunities due to injuries but I won't give up on him until he has a chance to consistently be in the starting lineup for a few weeks. He has shown impressive speed coming off the edge, he just needs to learn a few more pass rush moves and I think he can put it all together.
I was mainly talking about Spence because I really want to see him on the field this year. It's probably a good thing though since Spence needs to spend a lot of time in the weight room this year before he can really make an impact.
I'm not ready to give up on Sly yet either. He's been impressive on special teams which for a young linebacker is usually a good indicator that he will perform when playing defense and he hasn't really had much of an opportunity to do that yet. |
Playing behind the best 34 LB tandem absolutely helps them. Most players who come out of college are not ready to jump into a 3-4 defense immediately. Some have success but there are always growing pains, but learning behind guys like Harrison and Woodley is only a plus.
And this is not about starting opportunities. Even if they werent playing behind Woodly and Harrison, neither have shown anything at any point. They havent shown they could be quality starters anywhere. They both look like career backups TO THIS POINT.
Im not giving up on them, but like I said....I need to see something to change my mind.
Spence is up in the air. Too soon to say anything about him, but I stated my reasons why I have my doubts that he will ever be more than a role/situational player. |
Weren't you the one saying you had confidence in Keenan Lewis, Cortez Allen, and Curtis Brown when I posted about the scary lack of depth at corner? Just wondering why you're confident in them but not Spence Worilds and Sly when they've shown just as much, if not more than Brown Allen and Lewis.
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:00 am Post subject: |
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too high of expectations. That's pretty much it in my eyes. you look at steeler Lbs vs CBs and over the history of the team the lbs have been better. People give the young CBs time to develop because they have only seen a few all pro cbs over the same time. Lbs for the steelers have to live up to an all pro standard. I think it's a bit unfair to think a young lb, under the age of 25 needs to live up to those standards right away.(especially when playing behind Harrison/Woodley, it's hard to live up to those standards and it's unfair to compare a guy to that) I can only think of two guys who have and that's Joey Porter and Lamarr Woodley. And porter wasn't even a Double digit sack guy every year, never got over 90 tackles like Harrison. often times he was more bark than bite.
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mike23md
Days until:Training camp 38; Preseason opener @ Titans 52; Monday night vs. Eagles 85 RIP SSF |
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