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The Offensive Line

 
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Northland


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 3138
Location: Ajax, Ontario
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:43 am    Post subject: The Offensive Line Reply with quote

I am revisiting a much debated topic here, but after reading Bob Sturm's latest article I think it is important to discuss. Sturm's point is that we often blame Garrett and/or Romo for the offense's failings, but in reality we have to pin it on our mediocre line. Our offensive philosophy last year was overwhelmingly one of we have to mass protect so Romo doesn't get killed vs. we will attack and set the tone. Until the line play, especially the interior improves, we will continue to be overmatched against teams like the Giants, Eagles, and anyone else who is solid in their front seven/pass rush.

As an organization we have to improve our ability to draft lineman on both sides. It's fundamental to success.

Take a read and discuss.

http://sturminator.blogspot.ca/2012/06/how-offense-all-fits-together.html
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htfryar


Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 8481
Location: Hot Springs, Arkansas
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've said it many times, given a full offseason under Mike Woicik, our young o-linemen will be better than last year. Add in the fact that Bill Callahan is an upgrade over Hudson Houck and you have another reason for optimism. I see the line shaking out like this on opening day...

Smith...Livings...Kowalski...Nagy...Free

That lineup will not last long though. After a couple of guys have had time to work their way into the lineup, I think it will look more like this...

Smith...Leary...Burnindeuce...Nagy...Free
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Northland


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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Location: Ajax, Ontario
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am being very cautious in any OL evaluation. I am not going to annoint them, nor will I denounce them until I see them in action. But I don't have that warm fuzzy feeling. I think we have taken a patchwork approach to something that is vital to the team's success.
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GeneralDissaray


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 4529
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard so many on this forum and in the media say that the interior Oline has been "addressed". Like that's all you need to do is just sign somebody, and everything's fine. The blame will be on Romo, even when he gets killed up the middle. It's his responsibility as a leader to block for himself. I guess they felt it cheaper to sign Kyle Orton, than to draft or sign a quality interior Olineman.
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The_Slamman


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 11669
Location: Las Vegas, NV
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

htfryar wrote:
I've said it many times, given a full offseason under Mike Woicik, our young o-linemen will be better than last year. Add in the fact that Bill Callahan is an upgrade over Hudson Houck and you have another reason for optimism. I see the line shaking out like this on opening day...

Smith...Livings...Kowalski...Nagy...Free

That lineup will not last long though. After a couple of guys have had time to work their way into the lineup, I think it will look more like this...

Smith...Leary...Burnindeuce...Nagy...Free


Look at ht just straight drinking the cool aid.
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On May 9th, 2013, Brian Price was waived by the Dallas Cowboys.
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The_Slamman


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
I've heard so many on this forum and in the media say that the interior Oline has been "addressed". Like that's all you need to do is just sign somebody, and everything's fine. The blame will be on Romo, even when he gets killed up the middle. It's his responsibility as a leader to block for himself. I guess they felt it cheaper to sign Kyle Orton, than to draft or sign a quality interior Olineman.


I think this pretty much somes it up. Livings might be an upgrade (however slight) but he didn't play great last year. We don't even know who the center will be. People keep saying Kowalski but they seem to ignore that Callahan seems to be saying Costa. Costa may be slightly better just cause he has more experience, but not enough to make much of an impact. Nobody knows who the RG will be either. To say that 2 unknowns and Nate Livings are an obvious upgrade is pure homerism.
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Quote from May 7, 2013...

MaddHatter wrote:
Brian Price is still as talented as he ever was.


On May 9th, 2013, Brian Price was waived by the Dallas Cowboys.
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htfryar


Joined: 14 Feb 2005
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Location: Hot Springs, Arkansas
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
htfryar wrote:
I've said it many times, given a full offseason under Mike Woicik, our young o-linemen will be better than last year. Add in the fact that Bill Callahan is an upgrade over Hudson Houck and you have another reason for optimism. I see the line shaking out like this on opening day...

Smith...Livings...Kowalski...Nagy...Free

That lineup will not last long though. After a couple of guys have had time to work their way into the lineup, I think it will look more like this...

Smith...Leary...Burnindeuce...Nagy...Free


Look at ht just straight drinking the cool aid.


Not so much drinking the kool-aid as just stating the fact that our interior o-line sucked so bad last year that they pretty much have to be better this year.
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MonkeyBeast


Joined: 22 May 2012
Posts: 64
Location: vagabond with flowers for algernon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

who blames romo and garrett over the offensive line? it was pretty clear the offensive line was strait offensive last year. haha.

i for one am glad we got a big boy up front in livings. better than 270 lb nagy and costa getting pushed around like a rag doll. can't have three "athletes" in the middle of the line and expect to contend.

i think leary and arkin should be much better than nagy. just saying

(^^)
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Northland


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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Location: Ajax, Ontario
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

htfryar wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:
htfryar wrote:
I've said it many times, given a full offseason under Mike Woicik, our young o-linemen will be better than last year. Add in the fact that Bill Callahan is an upgrade over Hudson Houck and you have another reason for optimism. I see the line shaking out like this on opening day...

Smith...Livings...Kowalski...Nagy...Free

That lineup will not last long though. After a couple of guys have had time to work their way into the lineup, I think it will look more like this...

Smith...Leary...Burnindeuce...Nagy...Free


Look at ht just straight drinking the cool aid.


Not so much drinking the kool-aid as just stating the fact that our interior o-line sucked so bad last year that they pretty much have to be better this year.


HT, the interior of the OL should be better than last year or we have a big problem. But is just being better than last year's absolute debacle going to be good enough? That's the concern I have. I don't know if a year in the weight room, or a full training camp will be enough to cure what ails us. I mean if Quincy Carter had spent an off season with a QB Coach guru would he have been good enough? I doubt it. Some players are what they are. The Cowboy philosophy seems to be that elite skill people will overcome mediocrity on the line. That's dangerous.
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Northland
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htfryar


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northland wrote:
htfryar wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:
htfryar wrote:
I've said it many times, given a full offseason under Mike Woicik, our young o-linemen will be better than last year. Add in the fact that Bill Callahan is an upgrade over Hudson Houck and you have another reason for optimism. I see the line shaking out like this on opening day...

Smith...Livings...Kowalski...Nagy...Free

That lineup will not last long though. After a couple of guys have had time to work their way into the lineup, I think it will look more like this...

Smith...Leary...Burnindeuce...Nagy...Free


Look at ht just straight drinking the cool aid.


Not so much drinking the kool-aid as just stating the fact that our interior o-line sucked so bad last year that they pretty much have to be better this year.


HT, the interior of the OL should be better than last year or we have a big problem. But is just being better than last year's absolute debacle going to be good enough? That's the concern I have. I don't know if a year in the weight room, or a full training camp will be enough to cure what ails us. I mean if [Innapropriate/Offensive] had spent an off season with a QB Coach guru would he have been good enough? I doubt it. Some players are what they are. The Cowboy philosophy seems to be that elite skill people will overcome mediocrity on the line. That's dangerous.


FIFY
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matt79511


Joined: 10 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Nagy is the center. I don't get the vibe that Kowalski is even in consideration.
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Nextyearfordaboyz


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Kowalski is a long-shot to start at center without some injuries happening ahead of him. I think Costa, Nagy, and Bernadeau are all more likely to start there.
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Rtnldave


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be very easy to sit here and totally rank on the O line considering we started 4 rookies and a 2nd year man last year. (Smith, Kowalski, Nagy, Arkin and Costa-being the 2nd year man,) We also had the walking M*A*S*H Unit in Kosier. Free was asked to play a position over his head in LT. No offseason, an outdated O Line coach (yeah I know he was the mastermind behing the lines of the 90's) and stop-gags along the way.
With all that said, we had a RB rush for just under 900 yards in 7 games, A QB throw for over 4,000 yards and 2 recievers at or close to 1,000 yards.
We also missed the playoffs by 1 game really due to 2 monumental collapses that had NOTHING to do with the O Line (Detroit and NYG 1)
We also dropped a heartbreaker to ARIZ. (pure coaching blunder there)

So, I am not expecting this year's crop to be the second coming of the Hogs, but if they could at least duplicate the kind of production they allowed our offense last year and our defense steps up, we have a shot at the playoffs.
Of course I believe they will be improved this year, by how much remains to be seen, but that is the point. So let's AT LEAST give them the benefit of the doubt, shall we?
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Superfluous


Joined: 09 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
It would be very easy to sit here and totally rank on the O line considering we started 4 rookies and a 2nd year man last year. (Smith, Kowalski, Nagy, Arkin and Costa-being the 2nd year man,) We also had the walking M*A*S*H Unit in Kosier. Free was asked to play a position over his head in LT. No offseason, an outdated O Line coach (yeah I know he was the mastermind behing the lines of the 90's) and stop-gags along the way.
With all that said, we had a RB rush for just under 900 yards in 7 games, A QB throw for over 4,000 yards and 2 recievers at or close to 1,000 yards.
We also missed the playoffs by 1 game really due to 2 monumental collapses that had NOTHING to do with the O Line (Detroit and NYG 1)
We also dropped a heartbreaker to ARIZ. (pure coaching blunder there)

So, I am not expecting this year's crop to be the second coming of the Hogs, but if they could at least duplicate the kind of production they allowed our offense last year and our defense steps up, we have a shot at the playoffs.
Of course I believe they will be improved this year, by how much remains to be seen, but that is the point. So let's AT LEAST give them the benefit of the doubt, shall we?


You know what that means, right? That despite having one of the worst offensive lines in recent memory, they're that good with a terrible line, especially Romo. Imagine if they had a good offensive line... would they easily be the best offense in the NFL? Maybe. All the highest scoring offenses have good to great offensive lines, except for Dallas. Think about this, can you think of a time where Romo could sit in the pocket and throw it deep last year to truly utilize Dez's and Austin's abilities? The only ones I can remember were him rolling out or dodging defenders. One exception being the Bills game where he had good protection and you see how that ended up.
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Northland


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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Location: Ajax, Ontario
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superfluous wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
It would be very easy to sit here and totally rank on the O line considering we started 4 rookies and a 2nd year man last year. (Smith, Kowalski, Nagy, Arkin and Costa-being the 2nd year man,) We also had the walking M*A*S*H Unit in Kosier. Free was asked to play a position over his head in LT. No offseason, an outdated O Line coach (yeah I know he was the mastermind behing the lines of the 90's) and stop-gags along the way.
With all that said, we had a RB rush for just under 900 yards in 7 games, A QB throw for over 4,000 yards and 2 recievers at or close to 1,000 yards.
We also missed the playoffs by 1 game really due to 2 monumental collapses that had NOTHING to do with the O Line (Detroit and NYG 1)
We also dropped a heartbreaker to ARIZ. (pure coaching blunder there)

So, I am not expecting this year's crop to be the second coming of the Hogs, but if they could at least duplicate the kind of production they allowed our offense last year and our defense steps up, we have a shot at the playoffs.
Of course I believe they will be improved this year, by how much remains to be seen, but that is the point. So let's AT LEAST give them the benefit of the doubt, shall we?


You know what that means, right? That despite having one of the worst offensive lines in recent memory, they're that good with a terrible line, especially Romo. Imagine if they had a good offensive line... would they easily be the best offense in the NFL? Maybe. All the highest scoring offenses have good to great offensive lines, except for Dallas. Think about this, can you think of a time where Romo could sit in the pocket and throw it deep last year to truly utilize Dez's and Austin's abilities? The only ones I can remember were him rolling out or dodging defenders. One exception being the Bills game where he had good protection and you see how that ended up.


Superflous you make a point that many of us have tried to make: that with an investment in the OL, the offense would be that much better. The Cowboys want minimal investment in the OL and cross their fingers that their skill people will carry the day.

With respect to those who praise the OL for our running game last year, the real secret to the success of the run game was the FB. This is why Vickers could be the unsung hero of the offense. Check out the link that tells us of the impact of the FB and the results of the running game with and without him.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/news.cfm?id=0831229B-9484-46EC-99B60992EFCA7DD5
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