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Northland
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 3138 Location: Ajax, Ontario
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:43 am Post subject: The Offensive Line |
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I am revisiting a much debated topic here, but after reading Bob Sturm's latest article I think it is important to discuss. Sturm's point is that we often blame Garrett and/or Romo for the offense's failings, but in reality we have to pin it on our mediocre line. Our offensive philosophy last year was overwhelmingly one of we have to mass protect so Romo doesn't get killed vs. we will attack and set the tone. Until the line play, especially the interior improves, we will continue to be overmatched against teams like the Giants, Eagles, and anyone else who is solid in their front seven/pass rush.
As an organization we have to improve our ability to draft lineman on both sides. It's fundamental to success.
Take a read and discuss.
http://sturminator.blogspot.ca/2012/06/how-offense-all-fits-together.html _________________ Northland |
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htfryar 
Joined: 14 Feb 2005 Posts: 8481 Location: Hot Springs, Arkansas
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:21 am Post subject: |
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I've said it many times, given a full offseason under Mike Woicik, our young o-linemen will be better than last year. Add in the fact that Bill Callahan is an upgrade over Hudson Houck and you have another reason for optimism. I see the line shaking out like this on opening day...
Smith...Livings...Kowalski...Nagy...Free
That lineup will not last long though. After a couple of guys have had time to work their way into the lineup, I think it will look more like this...
Smith...Leary...Burnindeuce...Nagy...Free _________________
| Jack Nicholson wrote: |
Beer, it's the best damn drink in the world. |
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Northland
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 3138 Location: Ajax, Ontario
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: |
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I am being very cautious in any OL evaluation. I am not going to annoint them, nor will I denounce them until I see them in action. But I don't have that warm fuzzy feeling. I think we have taken a patchwork approach to something that is vital to the team's success. _________________ Northland |
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GeneralDissaray 
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 4529
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I've heard so many on this forum and in the media say that the interior Oline has been "addressed". Like that's all you need to do is just sign somebody, and everything's fine. The blame will be on Romo, even when he gets killed up the middle. It's his responsibility as a leader to block for himself. I guess they felt it cheaper to sign Kyle Orton, than to draft or sign a quality interior Olineman. |
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The_Slamman 
Joined: 07 Feb 2005 Posts: 11669 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| htfryar wrote: | I've said it many times, given a full offseason under Mike Woicik, our young o-linemen will be better than last year. Add in the fact that Bill Callahan is an upgrade over Hudson Houck and you have another reason for optimism. I see the line shaking out like this on opening day...
Smith...Livings...Kowalski...Nagy...Free
That lineup will not last long though. After a couple of guys have had time to work their way into the lineup, I think it will look more like this...
Smith...Leary...Burnindeuce...Nagy...Free |
Look at ht just straight drinking the cool aid. _________________ Quote from May 7, 2013...
| MaddHatter wrote: | | Brian Price is still as talented as he ever was. |
On May 9th, 2013, Brian Price was waived by the Dallas Cowboys. |
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The_Slamman 
Joined: 07 Feb 2005 Posts: 11669 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| GeneralDissaray wrote: | | I've heard so many on this forum and in the media say that the interior Oline has been "addressed". Like that's all you need to do is just sign somebody, and everything's fine. The blame will be on Romo, even when he gets killed up the middle. It's his responsibility as a leader to block for himself. I guess they felt it cheaper to sign Kyle Orton, than to draft or sign a quality interior Olineman. |
I think this pretty much somes it up. Livings might be an upgrade (however slight) but he didn't play great last year. We don't even know who the center will be. People keep saying Kowalski but they seem to ignore that Callahan seems to be saying Costa. Costa may be slightly better just cause he has more experience, but not enough to make much of an impact. Nobody knows who the RG will be either. To say that 2 unknowns and Nate Livings are an obvious upgrade is pure homerism. _________________ Quote from May 7, 2013...
| MaddHatter wrote: | | Brian Price is still as talented as he ever was. |
On May 9th, 2013, Brian Price was waived by the Dallas Cowboys. |
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htfryar 
Joined: 14 Feb 2005 Posts: 8481 Location: Hot Springs, Arkansas
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Slamman wrote: | | htfryar wrote: | I've said it many times, given a full offseason under Mike Woicik, our young o-linemen will be better than last year. Add in the fact that Bill Callahan is an upgrade over Hudson Houck and you have another reason for optimism. I see the line shaking out like this on opening day...
Smith...Livings...Kowalski...Nagy...Free
That lineup will not last long though. After a couple of guys have had time to work their way into the lineup, I think it will look more like this...
Smith...Leary...Burnindeuce...Nagy...Free |
Look at ht just straight drinking the cool aid. |
Not so much drinking the kool-aid as just stating the fact that our interior o-line sucked so bad last year that they pretty much have to be better this year. _________________
| Jack Nicholson wrote: |
Beer, it's the best damn drink in the world. |
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MonkeyBeast 
Joined: 22 May 2012 Posts: 64 Location: vagabond with flowers for algernon
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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who blames romo and garrett over the offensive line? it was pretty clear the offensive line was strait offensive last year. haha.
i for one am glad we got a big boy up front in livings. better than 270 lb nagy and costa getting pushed around like a rag doll. can't have three "athletes" in the middle of the line and expect to contend.
i think leary and arkin should be much better than nagy. just saying
(^^) _________________ I bet you sleep with a night laaaaaaat
cuz you scared of the dark cuz you stink like a fart
well I'll light your fart on fire with my rounds
You think I won't? I do it all the time |
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Northland
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 3138 Location: Ajax, Ontario
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| htfryar wrote: | | The_Slamman wrote: | | htfryar wrote: | I've said it many times, given a full offseason under Mike Woicik, our young o-linemen will be better than last year. Add in the fact that Bill Callahan is an upgrade over Hudson Houck and you have another reason for optimism. I see the line shaking out like this on opening day...
Smith...Livings...Kowalski...Nagy...Free
That lineup will not last long though. After a couple of guys have had time to work their way into the lineup, I think it will look more like this...
Smith...Leary...Burnindeuce...Nagy...Free |
Look at ht just straight drinking the cool aid. |
Not so much drinking the kool-aid as just stating the fact that our interior o-line sucked so bad last year that they pretty much have to be better this year. |
HT, the interior of the OL should be better than last year or we have a big problem. But is just being better than last year's absolute debacle going to be good enough? That's the concern I have. I don't know if a year in the weight room, or a full training camp will be enough to cure what ails us. I mean if Quincy Carter had spent an off season with a QB Coach guru would he have been good enough? I doubt it. Some players are what they are. The Cowboy philosophy seems to be that elite skill people will overcome mediocrity on the line. That's dangerous. _________________ Northland |
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htfryar 
Joined: 14 Feb 2005 Posts: 8481 Location: Hot Springs, Arkansas
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Northland wrote: | | htfryar wrote: | | The_Slamman wrote: | | htfryar wrote: | I've said it many times, given a full offseason under Mike Woicik, our young o-linemen will be better than last year. Add in the fact that Bill Callahan is an upgrade over Hudson Houck and you have another reason for optimism. I see the line shaking out like this on opening day...
Smith...Livings...Kowalski...Nagy...Free
That lineup will not last long though. After a couple of guys have had time to work their way into the lineup, I think it will look more like this...
Smith...Leary...Burnindeuce...Nagy...Free |
Look at ht just straight drinking the cool aid. |
Not so much drinking the kool-aid as just stating the fact that our interior o-line sucked so bad last year that they pretty much have to be better this year. |
HT, the interior of the OL should be better than last year or we have a big problem. But is just being better than last year's absolute debacle going to be good enough? That's the concern I have. I don't know if a year in the weight room, or a full training camp will be enough to cure what ails us. I mean if [Innapropriate/Offensive] had spent an off season with a QB Coach guru would he have been good enough? I doubt it. Some players are what they are. The Cowboy philosophy seems to be that elite skill people will overcome mediocrity on the line. That's dangerous. |
FIFY _________________
| Jack Nicholson wrote: |
Beer, it's the best damn drink in the world. |
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matt79511
Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 2226
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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I think Nagy is the center. I don't get the vibe that Kowalski is even in consideration. _________________
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Nextyearfordaboyz 
Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 16250
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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I think Kowalski is a long-shot to start at center without some injuries happening ahead of him. I think Costa, Nagy, and Bernadeau are all more likely to start there. _________________
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Rtnldave
Joined: 10 Feb 2008 Posts: 2354
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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It would be very easy to sit here and totally rank on the O line considering we started 4 rookies and a 2nd year man last year. (Smith, Kowalski, Nagy, Arkin and Costa-being the 2nd year man,) We also had the walking M*A*S*H Unit in Kosier. Free was asked to play a position over his head in LT. No offseason, an outdated O Line coach (yeah I know he was the mastermind behing the lines of the 90's) and stop-gags along the way.
With all that said, we had a RB rush for just under 900 yards in 7 games, A QB throw for over 4,000 yards and 2 recievers at or close to 1,000 yards.
We also missed the playoffs by 1 game really due to 2 monumental collapses that had NOTHING to do with the O Line (Detroit and NYG 1)
We also dropped a heartbreaker to ARIZ. (pure coaching blunder there)
So, I am not expecting this year's crop to be the second coming of the Hogs, but if they could at least duplicate the kind of production they allowed our offense last year and our defense steps up, we have a shot at the playoffs.
Of course I believe they will be improved this year, by how much remains to be seen, but that is the point. So let's AT LEAST give them the benefit of the doubt, shall we? |
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Superfluous
Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Rtnldave wrote: | It would be very easy to sit here and totally rank on the O line considering we started 4 rookies and a 2nd year man last year. (Smith, Kowalski, Nagy, Arkin and Costa-being the 2nd year man,) We also had the walking M*A*S*H Unit in Kosier. Free was asked to play a position over his head in LT. No offseason, an outdated O Line coach (yeah I know he was the mastermind behing the lines of the 90's) and stop-gags along the way.
With all that said, we had a RB rush for just under 900 yards in 7 games, A QB throw for over 4,000 yards and 2 recievers at or close to 1,000 yards.
We also missed the playoffs by 1 game really due to 2 monumental collapses that had NOTHING to do with the O Line (Detroit and NYG 1)
We also dropped a heartbreaker to ARIZ. (pure coaching blunder there)
So, I am not expecting this year's crop to be the second coming of the Hogs, but if they could at least duplicate the kind of production they allowed our offense last year and our defense steps up, we have a shot at the playoffs.
Of course I believe they will be improved this year, by how much remains to be seen, but that is the point. So let's AT LEAST give them the benefit of the doubt, shall we? |
You know what that means, right? That despite having one of the worst offensive lines in recent memory, they're that good with a terrible line, especially Romo. Imagine if they had a good offensive line... would they easily be the best offense in the NFL? Maybe. All the highest scoring offenses have good to great offensive lines, except for Dallas. Think about this, can you think of a time where Romo could sit in the pocket and throw it deep last year to truly utilize Dez's and Austin's abilities? The only ones I can remember were him rolling out or dodging defenders. One exception being the Bills game where he had good protection and you see how that ended up. |
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Northland
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 3138 Location: Ajax, Ontario
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Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| Superfluous wrote: | | Rtnldave wrote: | It would be very easy to sit here and totally rank on the O line considering we started 4 rookies and a 2nd year man last year. (Smith, Kowalski, Nagy, Arkin and Costa-being the 2nd year man,) We also had the walking M*A*S*H Unit in Kosier. Free was asked to play a position over his head in LT. No offseason, an outdated O Line coach (yeah I know he was the mastermind behing the lines of the 90's) and stop-gags along the way.
With all that said, we had a RB rush for just under 900 yards in 7 games, A QB throw for over 4,000 yards and 2 recievers at or close to 1,000 yards.
We also missed the playoffs by 1 game really due to 2 monumental collapses that had NOTHING to do with the O Line (Detroit and NYG 1)
We also dropped a heartbreaker to ARIZ. (pure coaching blunder there)
So, I am not expecting this year's crop to be the second coming of the Hogs, but if they could at least duplicate the kind of production they allowed our offense last year and our defense steps up, we have a shot at the playoffs.
Of course I believe they will be improved this year, by how much remains to be seen, but that is the point. So let's AT LEAST give them the benefit of the doubt, shall we? |
You know what that means, right? That despite having one of the worst offensive lines in recent memory, they're that good with a terrible line, especially Romo. Imagine if they had a good offensive line... would they easily be the best offense in the NFL? Maybe. All the highest scoring offenses have good to great offensive lines, except for Dallas. Think about this, can you think of a time where Romo could sit in the pocket and throw it deep last year to truly utilize Dez's and Austin's abilities? The only ones I can remember were him rolling out or dodging defenders. One exception being the Bills game where he had good protection and you see how that ended up. |
Superflous you make a point that many of us have tried to make: that with an investment in the OL, the offense would be that much better. The Cowboys want minimal investment in the OL and cross their fingers that their skill people will carry the day.
With respect to those who praise the OL for our running game last year, the real secret to the success of the run game was the FB. This is why Vickers could be the unsung hero of the offense. Check out the link that tells us of the impact of the FB and the results of the running game with and without him.
http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/news.cfm?id=0831229B-9484-46EC-99B60992EFCA7DD5 _________________ Northland |
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