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Punter Brett Hartmann susepended first 3 games of the season
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mse326


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
Hartmann got his suspension reduced by one game, and he served one game last season, does this mean he will only miss two games this fall???? Also, he got popped for using Ritalin. Here is the story



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/01/andre-brown-says-his-suspensions-been-lifted/


Quote:
Earlier this month, Texans punter Brett Hartmann had a four-game reduced by a game on appeal and now another player appears to have gotten his entire suspension erased.

Hartmann was suspended for taking Ritalin, which is used to treat the same conditions as Adderall.


From what I have read, Browns was reduced to 0 because he had the condition prior to the NFL and was on the meds, Hartmann did not, he could have depression or something thus, he started taking Ritalin.


Adderall and Ritalin are Schedule II Controlled Substances. Their generic name is "amphetamine" so it has a rightful place in any drug policy as having players running around all hyped up on speed on game days is a problem (as it was in baseball in the Charlie Hustle 70's/80s era). Anyone taking a schedule II drug these days knows all the ridiculous hoops you have to jump through to get them for legitimate use anymore and I reject on principle anyone not knowing that these would be included in the NFL drug policy and not knowing is no excuse anyway. Having a prescription for something is absolutely no defense as you can get a prescription for synthetic testosterone as well and pill mills are merely the 2012 version of crack houses with a waiting room. All they had to do was inform the NFL and present proof of their legitimate diagnosis of ADHD and they would be fine. They didn't and should be suspended, but I think 2 games is appropriate for something like a stimulant that is not going to make you punt a ball farther. Frankly, Hartmann could stand to dial it down a notch as the kickoff tackles weren't worth the risk.

FWIW - the NFL doesn't release any details of drugs players were suspended for, so you can't take the "adderall" excuse at face value as this could easily just be spin an agent does to make a roider seem like less of a cheat. How many people in jail actually tell inmates what they are really in there for?


I don't buy your last paragraph. If it was actual roids no way the suspension gets reduced. So it isn't as much as what is said here as the actions of the NFL that make it clear it wasn't roids.

I agree with everything else though.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
Hartmann got his suspension reduced by one game, and he served one game last season, does this mean he will only miss two games this fall???? Also, he got popped for using Ritalin. Here is the story



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/01/andre-brown-says-his-suspensions-been-lifted/


Quote:
Earlier this month, Texans punter Brett Hartmann had a four-game reduced by a game on appeal and now another player appears to have gotten his entire suspension erased.

Hartmann was suspended for taking Ritalin, which is used to treat the same conditions as Adderall.


From what I have read, Browns was reduced to 0 because he had the condition prior to the NFL and was on the meds, Hartmann did not, he could have depression or something thus, he started taking Ritalin.


Adderall and Ritalin are Schedule II Controlled Substances. Their generic name is "amphetamine" so it has a rightful place in any drug policy as having players running around all hyped up on speed on game days is a problem (as it was in baseball in the Charlie Hustle 70's/80s era). Anyone taking a schedule II drug these days knows all the ridiculous hoops you have to jump through to get them for legitimate use anymore and I reject on principle anyone not knowing that these would be included in the NFL drug policy and not knowing is no excuse anyway. Having a prescription for something is absolutely no defense as you can get a prescription for synthetic testosterone as well and pill mills are merely the 2012 version of crack houses with a waiting room. All they had to do was inform the NFL and present proof of their legitimate diagnosis of ADHD and they would be fine. They didn't and should be suspended, but I think 2 games is appropriate for something like a stimulant that is not going to make you punt a ball farther. Frankly, Hartmann could stand to dial it down a notch as the kickoff tackles weren't worth the risk.

FWIW - the NFL doesn't release any details of drugs players were suspended for, so you can't take the "adderall" excuse at face value as this could easily just be spin an agent does to make a roider seem like less of a cheat. How many people in jail actually tell inmates what they are really in there for?


I don't buy your last paragraph. If it was actual roids no way the suspension gets reduced. So it isn't as much as what is said here as the actions of the NFL that make it clear it wasn't roids.

I agree with everything else though.


In this case, I agree as well since the suspensions were reduced which almost never happens. I was more referring to the stories where players claim they got popped for some benign masking agent that they accidentally consumed or something that was in an over the counter supplement. There is no way to verify these claims and unless they sue (like the Star Caps cases) nobody will know what they actually tested dirty for. Remind me of the player who got caught who actually fessed up and said, "yep, I've been using anabolics for 8 years. I did it because I was mediocre and sold my soul for a shot at fame and fortune."

Understand that due to the litigious nature of the unions in sports you don't even hear about 60% of the positive tests that actually occur because of some possible vulnerability in their ability to stand by the result. Heck, the Ryan Braun thing made it that much worse as his test was ironclad doping with massive doses of synthetic testosterone in both samples, but because the tester missed the fedex deadline on a weekend, the arbitrator dismissed the result despite the fact that the sample remained completely sealed and refrigerated.
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Last edited by Apollo Stallion on Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
mse326 wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
Hartmann got his suspension reduced by one game, and he served one game last season, does this mean he will only miss two games this fall???? Also, he got popped for using Ritalin. Here is the story



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/01/andre-brown-says-his-suspensions-been-lifted/


Quote:
Earlier this month, Texans punter Brett Hartmann had a four-game reduced by a game on appeal and now another player appears to have gotten his entire suspension erased.

Hartmann was suspended for taking Ritalin, which is used to treat the same conditions as Adderall.


From what I have read, Browns was reduced to 0 because he had the condition prior to the NFL and was on the meds, Hartmann did not, he could have depression or something thus, he started taking Ritalin.


Adderall and Ritalin are Schedule II Controlled Substances. Their generic name is "amphetamine" so it has a rightful place in any drug policy as having players running around all hyped up on speed on game days is a problem (as it was in baseball in the Charlie Hustle 70's/80s era). Anyone taking a schedule II drug these days knows all the ridiculous hoops you have to jump through to get them for legitimate use anymore and I reject on principle anyone not knowing that these would be included in the NFL drug policy and not knowing is no excuse anyway. Having a prescription for something is absolutely no defense as you can get a prescription for synthetic testosterone as well and pill mills are merely the 2012 version of crack houses with a waiting room. All they had to do was inform the NFL and present proof of their legitimate diagnosis of ADHD and they would be fine. They didn't and should be suspended, but I think 2 games is appropriate for something like a stimulant that is not going to make you punt a ball farther. Frankly, Hartmann could stand to dial it down a notch as the kickoff tackles weren't worth the risk.

FWIW - the NFL doesn't release any details of drugs players were suspended for, so you can't take the "adderall" excuse at face value as this could easily just be spin an agent does to make a roider seem like less of a cheat. How many people in jail actually tell inmates what they are really in there for?


I don't buy your last paragraph. If it was actual roids no way the suspension gets reduced. So it isn't as much as what is said here as the actions of the NFL that make it clear it wasn't roids.

I agree with everything else though.


In this case, I agree as well since the suspensions were reduced which almost never happens. I was more referring to the stories where players claim they got popped for some benign masking agent that they accidentally consumed or something that was in an over the counter supplement. There is no way to verify these claims and unless they sue (like the Star Caps cases) nobody will know what they actually tested dirty for. Remind me of the player who got caught who actually fessed up and said, "yep, I've been using anabolics for 8 years. I did it because I was mediocre and sold my soul for a shot at fame and fortune."

Understand that due to the litigious nature of the unions in sports you don't even hear about 60% of the positive tests that actually occur because of some possible vulnerability in their ability to stand by the result. Heck, the Ryan Braun thing made it that much worse as his test was ironclad doping with massive doses of synthetic testosterone in both samples, but because the tester missed the fedex deadline on a weekend, the arbitrator dismissed the result despite the fact that the sample remained completely sealed and refrigerated.


You don't know that for a fact, nice try though.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
Heck, the Ryan Braun thing made it that much worse as his test was ironclad doping with massive doses of synthetic testosterone in both samples, but because the tester missed the fedex deadline on a weekend, the arbitrator dismissed the result despite the fact that the sample remained completely sealed and refrigerated.


You don't know that for a fact, nice try though.


Oh, this should be fun. Who cares if it's off topic. Just keep it clean, fellas. Very Happy
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
Heck, the Ryan Braun thing made it that much worse as his test was ironclad doping with massive doses of synthetic testosterone in both samples, but because the tester missed the fedex deadline on a weekend, the arbitrator dismissed the result despite the fact that the sample remained completely sealed and refrigerated.


You don't know that for a fact, nice try though.


Oh, this should be fun. Who cares if it's off topic. Just keep it clean, fellas. Very Happy


Sorry. Doubt there is much room for debate on this one. Braun never once disputed the presence of mass quantities of synthetic testosterone in his samples. His people merely tried to exploit a technical loophole and found the right 2 arbitrators to ignore 5 years of practical sample handling protocol and let a guy who cheated his way to an MVP award skate. All the sample collector did was properly secure the samples in a refrigerated environment instead of let them sit over the weekend in an unrefrigerated fedex facility as he is instructed to do. All he was guilty of was not knowing exactly where a Fedex facility was in Milwaukee that was open until 9pm (personally I only know of ones open to 7p here). At worst he might have been a bit lazy in falling back on protocol that said it was fine to refrigerate 2 fully tamper proof samples signed and sealed with Braun's signature over the weekend instead of beelining to the airport dropoff on a Friday night to get a run of the mill sample sent off (it's not a heart transplant, folks).

You can convince me that there was room in there for Braun to get off, just like you can convince me that the prosecution got beaten by better lawyers and poor jury selection in the OJ case, but you can't convince me that he didn't do it. Sadly, I think like many ballplayers, Braun probably doesn't need the extra help and would be a great player without the juice but he was flat busted getting some extra help in a pennant and MVP race and will always live with the stain on his reputation even if he "earns it" later in his career. If we are holding guys who NEVER tested positive like McGwire to a hall of fame zero tolerance standard, Braun's test remains positive even if the suspension was lifted.

BTW - back to football. This is exactly what Cushing will always face. He should have been a Pro Bowler last year and should be mentioned as the heir apparent to Ray Lewis as a game breaking ILB who makes everything else happen for his team, but he fully cultivated that seed of doubt that people already had about him and he'll never get that back below the surface that no matter how much he's tested or how great he becomes, clean or dirty.
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Grasspike


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
Heck, the Ryan Braun thing made it that much worse as his test was ironclad doping with massive doses of synthetic testosterone in both samples, but because the tester missed the fedex deadline on a weekend, the arbitrator dismissed the result despite the fact that the sample remained completely sealed and refrigerated.


You don't know that for a fact, nice try though.


Oh, this should be fun. Who cares if it's off topic. Just keep it clean, fellas. Very Happy


Sorry. Doubt there is much room for debate on this one. Braun never once disputed the presence of mass quantities of synthetic testosterone in his samples. His people merely tried to exploit a technical loophole and found the right 2 arbitrators to ignore 5 years of practical sample handling protocol and let a guy who cheated his way to an MVP award skate. All the sample collector did was properly secure the samples in a refrigerated environment instead of let them sit over the weekend in an unrefrigerated fedex facility as he is instructed to do. All he was guilty of was not knowing exactly where a Fedex facility was in Milwaukee that was open until 9pm (personally I only know of ones open to 7p here). At worst he might have been a bit lazy in falling back on protocol that said it was fine to refrigerate 2 fully tamper proof samples signed and sealed with Braun's signature over the weekend instead of beelining to the airport dropoff on a Friday night to get a run of the mill sample sent off (it's not a heart transplant, folks).

You can convince me that there was room in there for Braun to get off, just like you can convince me that the prosecution got beaten by better lawyers and poor jury selection in the OJ case, but you can't convince me that he didn't do it. Sadly, I think like many ballplayers, Braun probably doesn't need the extra help and would be a great player without the juice but he was flat busted getting some extra help in a pennant and MVP race and will always live with the stain on his reputation even if he "earns it" later in his career. If we are holding guys who NEVER tested positive like McGwire to a hall of fame zero tolerance standard, Braun's test remains positive even if the suspension was lifted.

BTW - back to football. This is exactly what Cushing will always face. He should have been a Pro Bowler last year and should be mentioned as the heir apparent to Ray Lewis as a game breaking ILB who makes everything else happen for his team, but he fully cultivated that seed of doubt that people already had about him and he'll never get that back below the surface that no matter how much he's tested or how great he becomes, clean or dirty.


However, it doesn't help that he is the textbook Jersey meathead caricature, which is something only a Texans fan or New Jersey resident can love in an athlete.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
Heck, the Ryan Braun thing made it that much worse as his test was ironclad doping with massive doses of synthetic testosterone in both samples, but because the tester missed the fedex deadline on a weekend, the arbitrator dismissed the result despite the fact that the sample remained completely sealed and refrigerated.


You don't know that for a fact, nice try though.


Oh, this should be fun. Who cares if it's off topic. Just keep it clean, fellas. Very Happy


Sorry. Doubt there is much room for debate on this one. Braun never once disputed the presence of mass quantities of synthetic testosterone in his samples. His people merely tried to exploit a technical loophole and found the right 2 arbitrators to ignore 5 years of practical sample handling protocol and let a guy who cheated his way to an MVP award skate. All the sample collector did was properly secure the samples in a refrigerated environment instead of let them sit over the weekend in an unrefrigerated fedex facility as he is instructed to do. All he was guilty of was not knowing exactly where a Fedex facility was in Milwaukee that was open until 9pm (personally I only know of ones open to 7p here). At worst he might have been a bit lazy in falling back on protocol that said it was fine to refrigerate 2 fully tamper proof samples signed and sealed with Braun's signature over the weekend instead of beelining to the airport dropoff on a Friday night to get a run of the mill sample sent off (it's not a heart transplant, folks).

You can convince me that there was room in there for Braun to get off, just like you can convince me that the prosecution got beaten by better lawyers and poor jury selection in the OJ case, but you can't convince me that he didn't do it. Sadly, I think like many ballplayers, Braun probably doesn't need the extra help and would be a great player without the juice but he was flat busted getting some extra help in a pennant and MVP race and will always live with the stain on his reputation even if he "earns it" later in his career. If we are holding guys who NEVER tested positive like McGwire to a hall of fame zero tolerance standard, Braun's test remains positive even if the suspension was lifted.

BTW - back to football. This is exactly what Cushing will always face. He should have been a Pro Bowler last year and should be mentioned as the heir apparent to Ray Lewis as a game breaking ILB who makes everything else happen for his team, but he fully cultivated that seed of doubt that people already had about him and he'll never get that back below the surface that no matter how much he's tested or how great he becomes, clean or dirty.


As a Cardinals fan I expect nothing less, trying to pass YOUR OPINION off as a fact. The facts are, someone tested positive for SOMETHING, who knows what, and now we have no idea if it was Braun, I could argue it was Weeks, who tested with him. Braun is still a dominant force this season while Weeks is.....? You can hate all you want on Braunie and call him a fake or liar, thats fine, but to classify your opinion on his test result as a fact is crazy. You have no idea what he failed, if he did or why he did if he even did. The bottom line is, we will never know the TRUTH.


Good day sir! Laughing
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