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ThorntonMelon
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 690
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 Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| mrdv1 wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | INbengalfan wrote: | | DeCastro is an A but Zeitler is a C+? Many teams had them ranked near equal. |
No way
Decastro was head and shoulders the best OG prospect in a LONG time. |
I don't agree with the C+ for Zeitler, i'm just saying they were not equal. |
I gave zeitler a c+ because if you remember the bengals were picking with decastro on the board and they traded down and got zeitler. I think they would have gotten a much better player in decastro, not saying zeitler is so bad, but the pick itself to take him later instead of decastro earlier I disagree with and that is why I gave the pick a c+. no doubt about it though that zeitler will be a good player |
You lost some credibility with this statement. There is absolutely no reason, other than media hype, to think that DeCastro is much better than Zeitler, or that Zeitler is much better than DeCastro.
They are very, very similar players. Zeitler's blocking effieciency grades were very slightly better tha DeCastro's. And their measurables were nearly identical.
DeCastro blocked for Luck, and got more hype. That is what you are basing your opinion on whether you realize it or not. |
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ThorntonMelon
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 690
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| JammerHammer21 wrote: | | RedGreenShow wrote: | | JammerHammer21 wrote: | | mtmmike wrote: | | JammerHammer21 wrote: | | mtmmike wrote: | I give your draft grade a F.
analysis first I wouldnt take baltimore and pittsburgh first and second round picks for trent straight up.
Benjamin wr flashed at the ota caught 4 passes against the best secondary in the afc north.
miller look at his game versus suh you might call it the battle of the bulge part 2.
winn will be the best player selected in the sixth round score a.
shwarz yes we reached but i have him rated higher then your druggie adams
in conclusion browns draft A even if the new quarteback fails. |
4 passes? Oh man, HOF for sure. Lazy Billy Winn will be the best player of the 6th?
Browns draft gets no where near an A, and if Weeden fails, its a big bust of a draft.  |
like I said trent is better than the first two picks of baltimore and pittsburgh
also who in the6th are going to be better
also why dont you comment about miller versus suh
furthermore watch weeden throw 35 yard outs
also why dont you comment about adams the druggie? |
Why do I need to comment on everything? Why don't you comment on John Hughes, who was a huge reach? Watch Weeden throw 35 yard outs? WOW AMAZING. Clearly he's going to be awesome. It doesn't matter that he's going to be 29, doesn't matter that he came from a offense that doesn't work in the NFL, LOOK AT HIS 35 yard outs. I highly doubt Miller "dominated" Suh. Usually if you dominate one of the finest, if not the finest, DTs in the NCAA the past decade, you don't go in the fifth round. Also, a 6'8 guard? Yeah, that sounds great. Who in the sixth is going to be better? Probably a lot of people, because when name players fall, they usually aren't very good. Quan Sturdivant anyone?
I don't like Adams, but that doesn't mean Schwartz is a great pick either. |
Obviously Richardson is a better PLAYER than Decastro and Upshaw. He was taken 3rd overall. Decastro and Upshaw were great value for guys who were commonly mocked to go 5-10 picks earlier. Schwartz is going to be beaten like a drum by Dunlap, Woodley and Upshaw twice a year. He was clearly a huge reach. Adams is by far the better player. Druggie? He made a mistake and smoked weed too close to the draft. Whatever. And i assume Benjamin is a slot player? Who did he line up on? Sheldon Brown? Buster Skrine? Real tough task... Not to mention his primary assets are in the return game. Its not like you have Josh Cribbs or anything.. |
Mike Adams is a career underachiever. He has a laundry list of character issues, and the weed one is just another one. He really isn't good.
Schwartz is a better player, but he was more of a late second at best IMO, but the way he handled Perry was impressive. Adams is pretty bad and will need a major turnaround. |
I completely agree on Adams. How the Steelers are getting kudos for drafting him is beyond me. I wouldnt take him in the second round even with a clean character. I watched nearly every game he played in college and he is simply not very good. OSU fans have been hearing how talented he is since he was a 5* recruit, but he never lived up to the hype. |
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PacAttack04
Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 3070
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| ThorntonMelon wrote: | | mrdv1 wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | INbengalfan wrote: | | DeCastro is an A but Zeitler is a C+? Many teams had them ranked near equal. |
No way
Decastro was head and shoulders the best OG prospect in a LONG time. |
I don't agree with the C+ for Zeitler, i'm just saying they were not equal. |
I gave zeitler a c+ because if you remember the bengals were picking with decastro on the board and they traded down and got zeitler. I think they would have gotten a much better player in decastro, not saying zeitler is so bad, but the pick itself to take him later instead of decastro earlier I disagree with and that is why I gave the pick a c+. no doubt about it though that zeitler will be a good player |
You lost some credibility with this statement. There is absolutely no reason, other than media hype, to think that DeCastro is much better than Zeitler, or that Zeitler is much better than DeCastro.
They are very, very similar players. Zeitler's blocking effieciency grades were very slightly better tha DeCastro's. And their measurables were nearly identical.
DeCastro blocked for Luck, and got more hype. That is what you are basing your opinion on whether you realize it or not. |
And was this your opinion before the draft or after it? Are you jus basing your opinion on the fact that DeCastro fell later than many expected, therefore they were similar players since try went in the same area? Because I remember everyone on this board labeled DeCastro as this top 10 potential pick at LG, but he falls to 24 and now he has a similar grade to
Zeitler, who many considered overrated and unathletic?
Hindsight is nice, isn't it. At least this guys is sticking to his opinion from before the draft that DeCastro was a much better player. |
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pigsooie5
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 3058
Location: LOBO NATION, New Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:38 am Post subject: Re: my 2012 draft grades |
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| mrdv1 wrote: | | Pinky wrote: | | mrdv1 wrote: |
Chicago bears:
1. McClellin – C+
2. Jeffery – C
3. Hardin – C
4. Rodriguez – C
5. Frey – D+
6. McCoy – C-
Overall: C
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I can understand the hesitation to give McClellin a good grade where we picked him....but giving the Jeffrey pick a C? in the second round? seriously? |
Yea. Jeffery was severely overrated in my opinion, and you guys brought in Brandon Marshall. Where does that leave Jeffery? He,s definitely not a slot option. Drafting Rodriquez in round 4 rules out a TE move. You just don't know what Jeffery you I'll get and he doesn't seem to have a spot to fit in, and to use a high second rounder on that? Doesn't seem like a great pick. |
Lol. Starting opposite Marshall. Why don't you do a little research before trying this man? Jeffery will see one on ones all game due to BM. Anybody still thinking he's fat and a TE haven't followed him in months... And Toon getting a higher grade? Or Broyles after coming off that knee injury? I strongly disagree with a lot of your grades.
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| WindyCity wrote: | | I was actually driving Nick Fairley and Mikel Leshoure to their NA meetings when Suh side swipped our car and threatened us. |
IN EMERY, WE TRUST |
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ThorntonMelon
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 690
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| PacAttack04 wrote: | | ThorntonMelon wrote: | | mrdv1 wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | INbengalfan wrote: | | DeCastro is an A but Zeitler is a C+? Many teams had them ranked near equal. |
No way
Decastro was head and shoulders the best OG prospect in a LONG time. |
I don't agree with the C+ for Zeitler, i'm just saying they were not equal. |
I gave zeitler a c+ because if you remember the bengals were picking with decastro on the board and they traded down and got zeitler. I think they would have gotten a much better player in decastro, not saying zeitler is so bad, but the pick itself to take him later instead of decastro earlier I disagree with and that is why I gave the pick a c+. no doubt about it though that zeitler will be a good player |
You lost some credibility with this statement. There is absolutely no reason, other than media hype, to think that DeCastro is much better than Zeitler, or that Zeitler is much better than DeCastro.
They are very, very similar players. Zeitler's blocking effieciency grades were very slightly better tha DeCastro's. And their measurables were nearly identical.
DeCastro blocked for Luck, and got more hype. That is what you are basing your opinion on whether you realize it or not. |
And was this your opinion before the draft or after it? Are you jus basing your opinion on the fact that DeCastro fell later than many expected, therefore they were similar players since try went in the same area? Because I remember everyone on this board labeled DeCastro as this top 10 potential pick at LG, but he falls to 24 and now he has a similar grade to
Zeitler, who many considered overrated and unathletic?
Hindsight is nice, isn't it. At least this guys is sticking to his opinion from before the draft that DeCastro was a much better player. |
You couldn't be more wrong about my opinion of DeCastro. I said to anyone that would listen that DeCastro was going to be a late-first or early second round pick.
And it isnt my opinion that Zeitler graded out slightly higher than DeCastro, it is fact. Zeitler's average blocking efficiency score in 2011 was 97 and change; DeCastro's was 96 and change.
Last edited by ThorntonMelon on Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Swift21
Joined: 20 Oct 2011
Posts: 727
Location: SF
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| 49ersfan wrote: | | It'd be better if you had some justifications and analysis for your grades. |
+1
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| SaveourSonics wrote: | | Pete is just an arrogant wanna-be Jim Harbaugh but he's just not as smart. |
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INbengalfan
Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 4670
Location: Richmond, IN
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| PacAttack04 wrote: | | ThorntonMelon wrote: | | mrdv1 wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | INbengalfan wrote: | | DeCastro is an A but Zeitler is a C+? Many teams had them ranked near equal. |
No way
Decastro was head and shoulders the best OG prospect in a LONG time. |
I don't agree with the C+ for Zeitler, i'm just saying they were not equal. |
I gave zeitler a c+ because if you remember the bengals were picking with decastro on the board and they traded down and got zeitler. I think they would have gotten a much better player in decastro, not saying zeitler is so bad, but the pick itself to take him later instead of decastro earlier I disagree with and that is why I gave the pick a c+. no doubt about it though that zeitler will be a good player |
You lost some credibility with this statement. There is absolutely no reason, other than media hype, to think that DeCastro is much better than Zeitler, or that Zeitler is much better than DeCastro.
They are very, very similar players. Zeitler's blocking effieciency grades were very slightly better tha DeCastro's. And their measurables were nearly identical.
DeCastro blocked for Luck, and got more hype. That is what you are basing your opinion on whether you realize it or not. |
And was this your opinion before the draft or after it? Are you jus basing your opinion on the fact that DeCastro fell later than many expected, therefore they were similar players since try went in the same area? Because I remember everyone on this board labeled DeCastro as this top 10 potential pick at LG, but he falls to 24 and now he has a similar grade to
Zeitler, who many considered overrated and unathletic?
Hindsight is nice, isn't it. At least this guys is sticking to his opinion from before the draft that DeCastro was a much better player. |
Not everyone beleived he was a top 10 pick, strictly because of position alone. A few bengal forum posters preferred Zeitler from February on. And he fits the bengals better as a run first type RG.
Plus, I may be wrong on TMs true identity, but if I am right, dude's got way more credability that the average Joe.
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18041
Location: Anywhere
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| JaguarCrazy2832 wrote: | | JammerHammer21 wrote: | | JaguarCrazy2832 wrote: | | How is Blackmon just a B-? |
Unless I'm missing something, there's nothing special about an average speed, 6'0ish WR who came from a passing attack that fed him the ball. |
Excellent hands, YAC ability, despite his poor straight line speed he finds a way to separate |
Blackmon doesn't have "excellent hands." Good hands sure, but excellent? No way. |
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mtmmike
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="JammerHammer21"] | mtmmike wrote: | I give your draft grade a F.
Browns draft gets no where near an A, and if Weeden fails, its a big bust of a draft. |
so following your analysis weeden shouldnt complete a pass and benjamen needs to drop everything to be good in your books and why dont you post your trade of adams and upshaw for trent
3 prediction you wont |
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JaguarCrazy2832
Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 73424
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| JammerHammer21 wrote: | | JaguarCrazy2832 wrote: | | JammerHammer21 wrote: | | JaguarCrazy2832 wrote: | | How is Blackmon just a B-? |
Unless I'm missing something, there's nothing special about an average speed, 6'0ish WR who came from a passing attack that fed him the ball. |
Excellent hands, YAC ability, despite his poor straight line speed he finds a way to separate |
Blackmon doesn't have "excellent hands." Good hands sure, but excellent? No way. |
Why dont we say they are great and call it a day? 
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18041
Location: Anywhere
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="mtmmike"] | JammerHammer21 wrote: | | mtmmike wrote: | I give your draft grade a F.
Browns draft gets no where near an A, and if Weeden fails, its a big bust of a draft. |
so following your analysis weeden shouldnt complete a pass and benjamen needs to drop everything to be good in your books and why dont you post your trade of adams and upshaw for trent
3 prediction you wont |
I'd respond if there was any semblance of proper English. This literally makes no sense..... |
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LikesHAM
Joined: 14 May 2012
Posts: 985
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| I think a B- is fair for David Wilson but I think he will be a noticeable upgrade in our backfield and will be an immediate contributor as a rookie but I can live with a B-. Randle was a steal in the 2nd in my opinion too. Overall I like the assessment of the Giants draft and think it is about where I would rank us as well. |
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PacAttack04
Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 3070
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| ThorntonMelon wrote: | | PacAttack04 wrote: | | ThorntonMelon wrote: | | mrdv1 wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | INbengalfan wrote: | | DeCastro is an A but Zeitler is a C+? Many teams had them ranked near equal. |
No way
Decastro was head and shoulders the best OG prospect in a LONG time. |
I don't agree with the C+ for Zeitler, i'm just saying they were not equal. |
I gave zeitler a c+ because if you remember the bengals were picking with decastro on the board and they traded down and got zeitler. I think they would have gotten a much better player in decastro, not saying zeitler is so bad, but the pick itself to take him later instead of decastro earlier I disagree with and that is why I gave the pick a c+. no doubt about it though that zeitler will be a good player |
You lost some credibility with this statement. There is absolutely no reason, other than media hype, to think that DeCastro is much better than Zeitler, or that Zeitler is much better than DeCastro.
They are very, very similar players. Zeitler's blocking effieciency grades were very slightly better tha DeCastro's. And their measurables were nearly identical.
DeCastro blocked for Luck, and got more hype. That is what you are basing your opinion on whether you realize it or not. |
And was this your opinion before the draft or after it? Are you jus basing your opinion on the fact that DeCastro fell later than many expected, therefore they were similar players since try went in the same area? Because I remember everyone on this board labeled DeCastro as this top 10 potential pick at LG, but he falls to 24 and now he has a similar grade to
Zeitler, who many considered overrated and unathletic?
Hindsight is nice, isn't it. At least this guys is sticking to his opinion from before the draft that DeCastro was a much better player. |
You couldn't be more wrong about my opinion of DeCastro. I said to anyone that would listen that DeCastro was going to be a late-first or early second round pick.
I
And it isnt my opinion that Zeitler graded out slightly higher than DeCastro, it is fact. Zeitler's average blocking efficiency score in 2011 was 97 and change; DeCastro's was 96 and change. |
I agree, I thought DeCastro was very overrated. But you claim this guys is just basing his opinion on the fact that he thought DeCastro was elite. Just as a lot of people on this board did. What's wrong with him sticking to his opinion? Or is his opinion not credible to you because it's the popular one and yours isn't? You and I could just as easily be wrong about DeCastro being overrated.
And using college blocking efficiency isn't a great way to scout IMO. It helps. But with the differences in conferences, facing different types of defensive schemes, supporting casts, and the fact that their efficiencies were close to each other anyway doesn't make that a good argument. |
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mtmmike
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:33 am Post subject: |
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[quote="JammerHammer21"] | mtmmike wrote: | | JammerHammer21 wrote: | | mtmmike wrote: | I give your draft grade a F.
Browns draft gets no where near an A, and if Weeden fails, its a big bust of a draft. |
so following your analysis weeden shouldnt complete a pass and benjamen needs to drop everything to be good in your books and why dont you post your trade of adams and upshaw for trent
3 prediction you wont |
I'd respond if there was any semblance of proper English. This literally makes no sense..... |
in your book weeden should throw all incompletions to be great in your book.
benjamen should drop everything to be great following your analysis.
upshaw and adams for for trent, no way no how.. |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 39946
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| mtmmike wrote: | I give your draft grade a F.
analysis first I wouldnt take baltimore and pittsburgh first and second round picks for trent straight up.
Benjamin wr flashed at the ota caught 4 passes against the best secondary in the afc north.
miller look at his game versus suh you might call it the battle of the bulge part 2.
winn will be the best player selected in the sixth round score a.
shwarz yes we reached but i have him rated higher then your druggie adams
in conclusion browns draft A even if the new quarteback fails. |
Good for you.
The Steelers and Ravens would never make that trade either.
And last time I checked, the Steelers and Ravens are much much much better at drafting.
You go ahead and take the flashy player. The Steelers will continue drafting better overall and being a far better team.
Thanks anyway champ.
Also..
- Every team has players that flash in OTAs....that means nothing.
- The Browns arent the best secondary in the AFC North LMAO. Let me know when you get something better than average in the secondary along with Haden.
- Winn was a nice pick, but thats far from a slam dunk.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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