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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 22294
Location: Conshohocken
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Army wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
lomaxgr wrote:
I think comparing John Elway to Jerry Jones is a rather large overreaction. Firstly, Jerry Jones doesn't know the game of Football like Elway. Get the two of them in a room on a whiteboard, and tell me who you think would show the other one up when talking about X and O's ...

I understand its a bit of a stretch but dont act like Jerry Jones is completely incompetent. Im pretty sure he was a very good player at Arkansas when they won the National Championship back in the day. To say hes completely incompetent is false, but you are absolutely correct Elway can school him in terms of "X's and O's".

Thats not what my argument is though. Jerry Jones has complete control of the team and had zero experience before inheriting it. Doesnt that sound familiar?

lomaxgr wrote:
Secondly, lets not act like Elway is running a Dictatorship because Xanders is gone. Sure, this is Elway's ship and he is the Captain. But everything I have heard suggest Elway takes PLENTY of advice from all of the other big cheeses like Fox, Russell, Kidd etc.

Where have you heard that?

From everything that Woody and Klis right, it sounds like hes exactly what a "its my way or the highway" type of guy would say. Lets also not even dip into his ego. Everyone thats followed the Broncos or anything in Colorado knows hes got a HUGE ego.

Again, all Im saying is there is no reason to name Elway the "final say guy" if he said it himslef that he doesnt deserve it. We need a GM in here that can make the player decisions. Elway hasnt earned that job yet.


I agree with this. Lomax had me going up to the "Russell, Kidd, etc....". I think some of us are fogetting who really runs this Billion dollar franchise. Pat Bowlen is the "dictator", the "boss", and the "decider". And, in Denver, with 40 years of sellouts, he is answerable to nobody. And although they seem to want to keep it secret from the people who pay for this franchise (fans), Bowlen seems to have some "health issues". Joe Ellis who I liken, in looks and sleazy comportment, to former Enron CEO, Jeffrey Skilling, is the #2 decider, and from everything I've seen, an incompetent "manager". Bowlen, who seems disinterested in the Broncos, and Ellis, who seems to be in over his head, run this franchise. Make no mistake about that.

Ellis, and to a lesser extent, Elway, came up with the right (lucky pick) coach, in John Fox, to stabilitze a "trainwreck" of a franchise that was in total chaos. Let's not forget or ignore where this franchise was just a little over a year ago. AND who mis-managed this franchise into that state. Of course, who can fault any naieve fan who wants to forget that their team was litttle more than a "laughing stock" a little over a year ago.

We didn't go to the Playoffs last season because of John Elways genius. We went to the Playoffs in spite of John Elway. John Elway seems to have acquired the "Napoleon" virus that McDaniels left behind, and may need to get his ego in line long enough to hire a REAL player personnel director with experience. Jersey has that one nailed.


You lost me after the first paragraph (which I agree with all of). John Fox was not a lucky pick, he was a smart one. That was a calculated move, make no mistake about it. I don't know how we went to the playoffs in spite of Elway. I would love to hear the rationale behind that. How you can make any determination on Elway's evaluation skills is beyond me, given that we are ONE year into him in his role, at least in terms of what we've seen, and we got to the playoffs...
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lomaxgr


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
You lost me after the first paragraph (which I agree with all of). John Fox was not a lucky pick, he was a smart one. That was a calculated move, make no mistake about it. I don't know how we went to the playoffs in spite of Elway. I would love to hear the rationale behind that. How you can make any determination on Elway's evaluation skills is beyond me, given that we are ONE year into him in his role, at least in terms of what we've seen, and we got to the playoffs...


Yeh I am intrigued to hear a response to that. And what ego has Elway displayed since being named to his current role? If Elway has an ego for getting rid of a QB that is now being used on Special Teams for a HOF QB, then it is pretty damn good ego if you ask me.
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Army


Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 1405
Location: Colorado
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
Army wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
lomaxgr wrote:
I think comparing John Elway to Jerry Jones is a rather large overreaction. Firstly, Jerry Jones doesn't know the game of Football like Elway. Get the two of them in a room on a whiteboard, and tell me who you think would show the other one up when talking about X and O's ...

I understand its a bit of a stretch but dont act like Jerry Jones is completely incompetent. Im pretty sure he was a very good player at Arkansas when they won the National Championship back in the day. To say hes completely incompetent is false, but you are absolutely correct Elway can school him in terms of "X's and O's".

Thats not what my argument is though. Jerry Jones has complete control of the team and had zero experience before inheriting it. Doesnt that sound familiar?

lomaxgr wrote:
Secondly, lets not act like Elway is running a Dictatorship because Xanders is gone. Sure, this is Elway's ship and he is the Captain. But everything I have heard suggest Elway takes PLENTY of advice from all of the other big cheeses like Fox, Russell, Kidd etc.

Where have you heard that?

From everything that Woody and Klis right, it sounds like hes exactly what a "its my way or the highway" type of guy would say. Lets also not even dip into his ego. Everyone thats followed the Broncos or anything in Colorado knows hes got a HUGE ego.

Again, all Im saying is there is no reason to name Elway the "final say guy" if he said it himslef that he doesnt deserve it. We need a GM in here that can make the player decisions. Elway hasnt earned that job yet.


I agree with this. Lomax had me going up to the "Russell, Kidd, etc....". I think some of us are fogetting who really runs this Billion dollar franchise. Pat Bowlen is the "dictator", the "boss", and the "decider". And, in Denver, with 40 years of sellouts, he is answerable to nobody. And although they seem to want to keep it secret from the people who pay for this franchise (fans), Bowlen seems to have some "health issues". Joe Ellis who I liken, in looks and sleazy comportment, to former Enron CEO, Jeffrey Skilling, is the #2 decider, and from everything I've seen, an incompetent "manager". Bowlen, who seems disinterested in the Broncos, and Ellis, who seems to be in over his head, run this franchise. Make no mistake about that.

Ellis, and to a lesser extent, Elway, came up with the right (lucky pick) coach, in John Fox, to stabilitze a "trainwreck" of a franchise that was in total chaos. Let's not forget or ignore where this franchise was just a little over a year ago. AND who mis-managed this franchise into that state. Of course, who can fault any naieve fan who wants to forget that their team was litttle more than a "laughing stock" a little over a year ago.

We didn't go to the Playoffs last season because of John Elways genius. We went to the Playoffs in spite of John Elway. John Elway seems to have acquired the "Napoleon" virus that McDaniels left behind, and may need to get his ego in line long enough to hire a REAL player personnel director with experience. Jersey has that one nailed.


You lost me after the first paragraph (which I agree with all of). John Fox was not a lucky pick, he was a smart one. That was a calculated move, make no mistake about it. I don't know how we went to the playoffs in spite of Elway. I would love to hear the rationale behind that. How you can make any determination on Elway's evaluation skills is beyond me, given that we are ONE year into him in his role, at least in terms of what we've seen, and we got to the playoffs...


Yeah, that was a brilliant "calculated move" to get Fox. Why don't we all re-write history.

The Denver Broncos were the 2nd worst team in the NFL. The Denver Broncos were the "laughing stock" of the NFL. Even more so than Carolina, a horribly coached and assembled team. The Denver Broncos had mis-managed the Broncos franchise into oblivion with their hiring, and subsequent firing, of Josh McDaniels. And, there were rumors about the Owners health (Alzheimers). So, who in there right mind would want to coach this team.

We all remember the list of great coaches we all hoped for (Cower, Gruden, etc......). Those great coaches laughed in OUR faces. We lucked into getting a former Bronco (John Elway), inexperienced in Player Personnel in the NFL, to come aboard, and attempt to stumble around in a search for a new coach. To me, there were only 2 legitimate candidates, of Dennison and Fox. Nobody else wanted to show up for interviews.

Dennison was an assistant coach, and Fox had just been fired after coaching his team to a worse record than the Denver Broncos. I have no idea what went on in choosing the coach with the worst record in the NFL over the assistant coach. And nobody on this Board knows either. I suspect, but can't prove, that it was pretty much a flip of the coin. I hate to admit it now, but I was for Dennison. Luckily, (IMO it was luck) the flip of the coin went to the veteran NFL coach who, let me repeat, had just been fired from coaching his team to the worst record in the NFL.

Looking back on it now, if the Broncos had gone with my choice (Dennison), we would have been screwed. Fox has turned out to be perfect for this team. And if some on this Board want to attribute that to the genius, hard work, and research carefully undertaken by John Elway, go with that. I do have some respect for Elway as a business man, and in this case whether it was a flip of the coin, or in my estimation, a lucky guess, it was the best choice that could be made at that time. I can tell you one thing though, and that's if Gary Kubiak had become available as was thought might happen, he'd be coaching the Denver Broncos, today. Just my opinion.
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^

If you think John Fox is a bad coach, I suggest you go learn some more about the game of football. He was handicapped by an idiotic owner in Jerry Richardson. Fox is awfully well respected around this league. Funny how you pimp Rick Dennison, yet he's never been up for any job anywhere. Is there a reason why? I'd imagine yes.

Again, Gruden, Cowher all those guys you mentioned aren't coaching ANYWHERE. It's not like they just laughed us off, they aren't available to anyone. Broncos fans who thought they were an option are delusional. Fox was the right move and he's a good coach. I'm sorry you can't look at more than his record the year before he came here.
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Army


Joined: 26 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
^^^

If you think John Fox is a bad coach, I suggest you go learn some more about the game of football. He was handicapped by an idiotic owner in Jerry Richardson. Fox is awfully well respected around this league. Funny how you pimp Rick Dennison, yet he's never been up for any job anywhere. Is there a reason why? I'd imagine yes.

Again, Gruden, Cowher all those guys you mentioned aren't coaching ANYWHERE. It's not like they just laughed us off, they aren't available to anyone. Broncos fans who thought they were an option are delusional. Fox was the right move and he's a good coach. I'm sorry you can't look at more than his record the year before he came here.


You know, I noticed something about your posts. They are always hostile reactions to other people's posts. There is never an original idea, an original thought, taking a stand on an issue, or a post that is your opinion. It's always about how you don't like other peoples opinions. I am anxious to see how that works for you when you have to join the "real world" after you get out of school. And, of course, that doesn't begin to cover the anger and hostility in your posts. Good luck with that moving forward, dude.

But back to the subject, what about my saying, "Looking back on it now, if the Broncos had gone with my choice (Dennison), we would have been screwed. Fox has turned out to be perfect for this team" don't you get?
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lomaxgr


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Army wrote:
We all remember the list of great coaches we all hoped for (Cower, Gruden, etc......). Those great coaches laughed in OUR faces. We lucked into getting a former Bronco (John Elway), inexperienced in Player Personnel in the NFL, to come aboard, and attempt to stumble around in a search for a new coach. To me, there were only 2 legitimate candidates, of Dennison and Fox. Nobody else wanted to show up for interviews.

Dennison was an assistant coach, and Fox had just been fired after coaching his team to a worse record than the Denver Broncos. I have no idea what went on in choosing the coach with the worst record in the NFL over the assistant coach. And nobody on this Board knows either. I suspect, but can't prove, that it was pretty much a flip of the coin. I hate to admit it now, but I was for Dennison. Luckily, (IMO it was luck) the flip of the coin went to the veteran NFL coach who, let me repeat, had just been fired from coaching his team to the worst record in the NFL.


And tell me, where are Cowher and Gruden Coaching right now? That is right, NOWHERE. You talk like they just "laughed" in our face; does that mean they laughed in the face of every Franchise that approached them? Heck, how do you know that we did?

The 2010 Carolina Panthers were terrible. No doubt about it. But lets not act like you know ANYTHING whatsoever about how well Coached they were. Fox was hamstrung by a team lacking talent, in particular at the most important position in Football. Fox's record at Carolina was a good one, and you are 100% disrespecting a well respected NFL Head Coach.

You haven't said a single credible thing to backup your notion that hiring Fox was luck. Yes, we get it, the Panthers had one terrible season. Do we give up on every single NFL employee who has had a bad season? The funny thing is that you named Gruden as a guy everyone was "excited" about; does Gruden get a pass for his 4 win season in 2006, good enough for the 4th pick in the draft? Is the difference between 32nd in the NFL and 29th really that big? We didn't "luck" into anything. People like AAA and UK were exactly right in their notion when Fox was hired; this team needed a face lift from a reputable, solid Head Coach. Bowlen and Elway knew that, and they got the right guy.

Your opinions are utterly baffling at times.
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Army wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
^^^

If you think John Fox is a bad coach, I suggest you go learn some more about the game of football. He was handicapped by an idiotic owner in Jerry Richardson. Fox is awfully well respected around this league. Funny how you pimp Rick Dennison, yet he's never been up for any job anywhere. Is there a reason why? I'd imagine yes.

Again, Gruden, Cowher all those guys you mentioned aren't coaching ANYWHERE. It's not like they just laughed us off, they aren't available to anyone. Broncos fans who thought they were an option are delusional. Fox was the right move and he's a good coach. I'm sorry you can't look at more than his record the year before he came here.


You know, I noticed something about your posts. They are always hostile reactions to other people's posts. There is never an original idea, an original thought, taking a stand on an issue, or a post that is your opinion. It's always about how you don't like other peoples opinions. I am anxious to see how that works for you when you have to join the "real world" after you get out of school. And, of course, that doesn't begin to cover the anger and hostility in your posts. Good luck with that moving forward, dude.

But back to the subject, what about my saying, "Looking back on it now, if the Broncos had gone with my choice (Dennison), we would have been screwed. Fox has turned out to be perfect for this team" don't you get?


First off, I'm not concerned about what you have to say about me. I'm doing just fine. What opinions did you throw out in your prior posts? You write this nonsense about how awful Elway is, how we lucked into Fox, Osweiler is awful blah blah blah. I don't get it.

Yes, you threw in that little sentence, that was after you took the opposite stand in prior posts. Guess I just can't keep up.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Army wrote:
You know, I noticed something about your posts. They are always hostile reactions to other people's posts. There is never an original idea, an original thought, taking a stand on an issue, or a post that is your opinion. It's always about how you don't like other peoples opinions. I am anxious to see how that works for you when you have to join the "real world" after you get out of school. And, of course, that doesn't begin to cover the anger and hostility in your posts. Good luck with that moving forward, dude.

Army you are entitled to your opinions, however asinine they may be at times, but under no circumstances are elliot and I going to allow you to come in here rail against other members in such a personal manner.

Keep it to football or look for another place to post your rants.
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